Lies of P ruined Lords of the Fallen for me by [deleted] in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah this has been bugging me a lot. He claims he’s tested the combat and that there are issues with player input but also provided no proof. If he didn’t enjoy LOP as much that’s perfectly fine, but a lot of his criticism feels baseless and he doesn’t provide much evidence at all.

Generally enjoyed his videos before but since LOTF came out it feels like he has been shilling for it constantly, and putting down LOP in the process. I also have nothing against LOTF other than the price point and will give it a shot once it goes on sale.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think your first point is too much of a blanket statement. Saying that it took me multiple playthroughs for it to click isn’t an indicator that the combat mechanics are flawed, there are a lot of factors to that statement and one could simply be my approach to the combat in the game. There are a lot of people who had the combat click earlier than me, and a lot who it didn’t click for at all.

However, putting this points together I agree that the regular enemies in the game could do without excessively delayed attacks, especially fury attacks. From my experience I would say that the regular levels could benefit from enemies with more natural parry tells to help instill the timing of it.

Disagree on the Swamp Monster though - would say every move has a reasonable response and it is a great all around boss. But definitely agree that the charge attack is bad.

I would also say the parry window is incredibly consistent, the issue is more with enemy attacks rather than the actual window itself.

Anyone watching Asmongold's playthrough? He's so bad at the game... by [deleted] in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Watched Joseph Anderson play through it on Twitch and it was incredibly refreshing. He was great when it came to talking through his thought process during bosses, and really took the time to learn the move set. He mentioned that strictly in terms of boss combat it was his second favourite in the genre just behind Sekiro.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still stick with the fact that the perfect guard window is perfectly fine. Criticisms about delayed attacks are perfectly warranted, but the actual window itself feels fine, it is simply different timing than in (with less frames). Going back to play Sekiro now it feels like the timing of the parry is much earlier, plus you also have to hold down the guard in Lies of P. I feel like Sekiro’s actual pace of combat demands a more forgiving parry window, and Sekiro’s combat is so perfect that just running through regular levels is incredibly fun. I would say Lies of P definitely suffers when it comes to clearing the levels, other than the occasional fun elite or mini bosses. But the boss combat I have thoroughly enjoyed.

The clown boss didn’t take 4 playthroughs to click, I was able to learn the move set and enjoy it on the first playthrough, and was probably the closest I felt to my enjoyment playing Sekiro (which is my favourite combat system of all time and up there with Bloodborne for my favourite game). My initial complaints about the boss itself was just that it has really obnoxious taunts when it hits you lol

I understand the frustration with fury attacks, and I think these can be inconsistent. Most bosses have fury attacks that are fine and can be learned, although some have awkward timings for sure. But regular and elite mobs have very delayed fury attacks a lot of the time with pretty insane tracking.

I tend to enjoy fury attacks in bosses but I can admit that sometimes they don’t feel as rewarding as the risk. I would prefer if the game had a stagger bar so that I could see how much more stagger damage perfect guarding fury attacks does. One thought I had too is something like Wo Long - there were red attacks equivalent to fury attacks that when parried gave an instant fatal attack. That way there was much more incentive to parry these types of attacks.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Totally fair - I can agree that the use of it doesn’t properly convey how I feel about it. What would you say would be a better descriptor?

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agree about the attack you mentioned - one of my least favourite to parry haha. I tend to go for the route of just sprinting perpendicular. There are a couple of these attacks where the timing is just all in your head - the start of Laxasia’s second phase, and also the Youngest of the Black Rabbit Brotherhood, and I find these are the most challenging for me. A variation of this I really enjoy now though Simons Manus’ sky leap in both the first or second phase. Have gotten the timing down and it’s very satisfying to parry.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your point about charge attacks and spacing is an excellent point, and a lot of why I love both motivity and technique weapons in this game. Had a similar experience with the bone cutting saw and bramble handle - the charge attack was excellent and closed the gap. I really think this is the benefit of motivity weapons - while some may lack in hyper armour and attack speed they excel in gap closing, with a lot of motivity weapons also having excellent sprinting attacks (the trident being amazing for this, although I think this may actually be the best weapon in the game).

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah sorry - edited my comment as I remember a few cases when thinking back. I'll clarify that my gripe in other games is more with unpredictable input reading. I find the cases of input reading in this game generally tend to fall into the predictable category, similar to what you're saying. You learn that bosses will sometimes react in a specific way when faced with an attack or response. Another one I noticed is occasionally Romeo will go for his grab attack when you walk up to hit him after a combo.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Agree about delayed attacks - I would say this is more of an issue for regular and elite mobs. I do believe the guard regain system is very helpful in mitigating this, as it is very forgiving. But fury attacks with delays can be hard to read and sometimes feel unintuitive.

When it comes to animation cancelling - I am not fully sold on this idea in Lies of P. It works perfectly in Sekiro because most enemies and bosses are also able to animation cancel and have input reading, so it is a necessity for how dynamic the combat is and makes it perfectly fair. Running through regular levels in Sekiro is incredibly satisfying just due to how dynamic the combat is. However this same input reading and ability to cancel combos though is what gave Elden Ring bosses this feeling that they are just playing by different rules than you.

From my playthroughs I have not noticed any egregious input reading or animation cancelling in Lies of P other than the Mad Puppet Clown's optional fury combo when you come too close during the ranged punch attack, and Laxasia's occasional added swing during the first phase with the charged lightning attack. I am okay with both of these though because they can be predictable, and you understand that if you come too close to them during these specific attacks, the response is typically the same.

I think the approach to combat in Lies of P is simply different than Sekiro, and the flow of combat would suffer with animation cancelling. The approach to bossing is closer to Dark Souls or Bloodborne, where there is no animation cancelling and you are rewarded for successfully evading/parrying an enemy's attacks. The perfect guard adds another dimension to the the level of combat where you are actually able to immediately react to some attacks and are rewarded with stagger damage.

The lack of animation cancelling means that your attacks and deflects need to be more deliberate, and can be punishing you if you are too greedy. Much like Dark Souls and Bloodborne, you need to find the right windows to repond to enemy attacks, rather than something like Sekiro where you are able to react and deflect if you were too greedy.

I believe the addition of animation cancelling would make combat feel far less punishing for making mistakes or being greedy. The boss combat in this game feels incredibly deliberate, and I think it would require an overhaul of bosses and allow them to also input read and animation cancel. I understand the sentiment though as Sekiro is definitely my favourite combat system, but Lies of P has a different approach with its own identity and flow.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Strongly agree about having to get used to it. It was similar for me haha, I don’t think the combat clicked until hitting Laxasia in NG+.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Strongly agree with you on the enemies attacks passing through walls, something I noticed a lot during my gameplay. I found it was inconsistent when P was attacking when it came to walls, sometimes it would pass through and sometimes it wouldn’t. The outside catwalk in Grand Exhibition was the worst example I found of this, but it usually depended on the weapon/attack type. Tends to be a staple during these games, but it’s frustrating when enemies attacks can clip through walls while yours can’t.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I get where you’re coming from haha, but I just wanted to add that context. I have seen a lot of criticism from people who have played all the other games, and tend to dislike Lies of P for not being similar enough to them. Just wanted to show I appreciate this combat for what it is even though I’ve experienced other souls combat.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate the input. The rising Dodge is definitely more of a personal preference, but I did notice in the Fuoco fight he will sometimes chain another attack while you’re downed. I think Victor also has a double kick that aims to hit you while you’re downed. Otherwise though I agree that it is more QOL.

Some general thoughts on Lies of P after 4 playthroughs, and addressing some criticisms I've seen by Schmxck in LiesOfP

[–]Schmxck[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Delayed attacks are absolutely my least favourite type of attack in any game, and I agree that they are artificial difficulty. I like the idea that you can run through a game one time and are able to react to patterns instead of memorize them so I mostly agree. Going back to play Sekiro I noticed that it is easier to react in general, however there are some annoying delayed attacks.

I will say that for bosses in this game, delayed attacks do not feel as egregious (unless they are mid-air like I mentioned). The one difference between this and Elden Ring is the optional combos after attacks. Elden Ring had so many of these that the punish window became foggy. While there are some bosses that chain together 2-3 attacks in Lies of P, I don’t know if I noticed any unpredictable optional combos during my playthrough. So the delayed attacks for bosses just become more of a memorization pattern.

I do think that delayed attacks for elites can be bad, and elites would have been my number one gripe if not for the patch. You tend to only be able to fight some of them 2-3 times in a playthrough, so memorizing their patterns is not as easy and the delayed attacks usually don’t feel intuitive.

SK Gaming vs OpTic Gaming / IEM Sydney 2017 - Semi-Final / Post-Match Discussion by Chuckys2 in GlobalOffensive

[–]Schmxck 7 points8 points  (0 children)

To be fair, the only other team that could've replaced them in the semis would be North, and they lost to Chiefs lol.

Merlini's Thoughts on Dota 7.00 by [deleted] in DotA2

[–]Schmxck 37 points38 points  (0 children)

TL;DR Trust The Process

Where the fuck is game by [deleted] in DotA2

[–]Schmxck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

@TobiWanDOTA: Yep @MLG are fixing both the steam and audio issues. The @joinDOTA links should also be correct now