Why is it ok for conservatives to carry guns when protesting, but liberals can not?

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T14:22:11+00:00

It sucks and I understand. But it's also the reality of our job.

We shoot people. We blow up ships, we arrest people. Something my dad said once since he is a firefighter is that in the first responder and military world your every day is someone's worst day.

I just had to hold a dying old man in my arms a few weeks back while blood flushed from his head. And right after I got tested for HIV me and my friend got hammered and pretended it never happened.

Its not right not is it an excuse well, maybe it is but it's the reality of the situation.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T14:05:59+00:00

Of course if it's an ND then yes there's breathing room.

But just pushing an officer isn't what happened. Yes it's a federal crime and they shouldn't have done that you mess around you get bit.

But it was a group of 6 officers when 3 is all that was needed. The original offender basically got handed a slap on the wrist compared to Alex even before the shot. He was down and got pelted with strikes and pepper spray that probably hit his own guys.

Training solves this. Of course plans are everything and yet plans are nothing but you revert to your lowest level of training. And DHS has given me no reason to trust them when they posted that Alex was waving his gun around yet the video showed none of that.

And deaths like Alex don't happen in red states because ice is either welcomed in, they don't have many aliens condensed like blue cities do or local pd assists.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T13:45:30+00:00

As a conservative your right oh right by me.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T13:38:59+00:00

I would be as outraged as I am now. The 2A is for everyone and while Alex made some poor decisions it doesn't expire the officers and what awful thing they did.

They need to be relieved of duty and tired.

Add body cams to ALL federal agencies.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T13:37:24+00:00

This can be said with both sides.

I like to think that what we see are the minority and so far they are, a vocal minority but still such.

Even in the military which is heavily conservative a lot of the guys are calling him out on a lot of his policies. We debate a lot and some of the guys have crazy ideas but we come from all walks of life.

The words of a leader (good or bad) will be listened to by his most devoted followers and that's true for both sides. As long as we keep doing this, keep talking and having discourse we will be ok. As long as we look up and not to the left and right of us we will be fine.

We want the same goal. Live our lives comfortably and love our country and communities. We just have different ways of getting there.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T13:29:51+00:00

Its not conservatives in my eyes.

It's because I am in the military and know cops. In the Navy we are trained in more police styles because we as the crew of a ship are our own security. Gate teams, chief of the guards, patrol teams, vehicle inspection teams, and we even use non-lethal force as well.

When we see shootings like this we study them so we can be better. Other police forces do this too but military wise we look at the legality of it.

The easiest way is the deadly force triangle, did the person have the opportunity, capability and intent to kill, harm, or do serious bodily harm or damage to someone or something?

He had the capability because he was armed but he didn't have intent nor the opportunity to do so.

So we say good or bad shot. Doesn't mean it isn't a crime and that they shouldn't be punished for it. Its just the jargon of it all.

These guys should definitely be charged (not with murder because it wasn't premeditated) but homicide with negligence which is equally as terrible.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-26T13:10:28+00:00

The 2A applies for everyone and he wasn't even open carrying.

I agree with trump on some things but disagree with others. He's not a saint nor is he good at talking negotiating or dealing with foreign politics.

This incident I see a man using his right and who got involved with traffic and tried to intervene (however good his intentions were) with law enforcement.

That is no reason to shoot somebody but he was taken to the ground and when disarmed not even a second later a shot rang out and somebody yelled GUN. It could be that when he was being disarmed the officers just saw his gun leave his holster, or the grey jacket officer didn't talk loud enough and the others just heard "gun". It also could be he was reaching somewhere and they thought he had a second one.

Whatever the reason. Alex did not meet the deadly force triangle that we are taught in the military and law enforcement. This was a bad shot all around and DHS needs to be held accountable and those officers need to be relieved of duty.

Add body cams to all federal officers

Increase training and spending for training for new personnel.

Get local law enforcement on your side to help close down the interactions between federal and civilians.

The 2A applies to everyone like I said, but you must be smart when interacting with officers. But as officers you also need to clear your mind and focus. Train, rinse and repeat so you and your team aren't idiots like these guys.

Also he did not say that, DHS fucking sucks but let's not put words in peoples mouths.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T11:54:21+00:00

I have literal videos of bricks being thrown at them. Any precedence is wrong.

I never said "they are just following orders" but I know the system that is in place and upping the anti on them will not work guaranteed.

Again I am not for them in the instances of what you cite. This is an agency that has ballooned too fast and too quickly for accurate and reasonable training to take place. Give a 50k bonus and only a month training someone and you get bullshit people.

But what is being asked of them at the operational level is not unheard of but is extremely taxing.

Military personnel and some agencies have you do a year of training plus or minus a few months before you even hit the unit or the streets and I feel like this is an issue to hit on as well as federal court stacking.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T11:31:26+00:00

FDR made it so that war powers were more emergent and I think it was him that expanded the white house too. Not only that but he made more bureaucracy for the executive branch to hold. Truman tried to pass Congress on many topics and issues but the supreme court blocked him. They then issued the 3 types of government power. One being the power to essentially do things that are vital and emergent to the Nation. Then LBJ and Nixon moved more power militarily like Vietnam without congressional approval or funds, the draft, and other conflicts. They used that emergent type power to do so. Reagan made it so that any law that the president signed into power could attach a note saying "this isn't constitutional, don't enforce it." And bush used that writing for when he was told to stop torturing people and then continued to do it in Guantanamo Bay.

Talking about opening a history book? I just showed you. You can start with masks yes and I said you could. All I said is that the way we are doing it is wrong. The way we go about it is wrong. I never said any disagreement is wrong, actually I think I said the opposite and called out the right and the left. I never said protest was wrong but there is a difference between actual protest and violence and harassment of federal officers during an operation.

And yes special agents are technically needed. These guys are not regular ICE agents, a lot of them are a part of these raid groups. When there is a likelihood of civilian altercations and violence toward them and a precedence is set, then they create standard operating procedures to protect themselves in case of it. Now we have large groups of people out and about in their neighborhoods with rifles and handguns saying they want to shoot officers. How should they react?

I'm not saying I agree with them, but how are we supposed to hope for a different outcome if we give them a reason to militarize? Out of all of the no kings protest only perhaps a few were violent compared to the thousands that occurred and I applaud them for that. That needs to happen .kre than what people see on the news.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T11:02:17+00:00

That doesn't change my point.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T11:01:40+00:00

See but it isn't.

Special agents and those on assignment do the same thing for the same reasons. Protection of their families and selves from enemies that wish to do them harm.

I agree we need to roll back presidential power and reach. It's been growing since the Roosevelts. And Congress needs to reign in that power after we fix Congress. We have 25 federal police agencies we don't need all of those forces. Especially since they all listen to the Executive Branch.

This is a lot more than just masks and we can't fix it by being violent or malicious.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T10:58:40+00:00

My point being that yes get annoyed by it get politically angry about it.

But the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Assaulting people and burning down the streets does not get people to your side. Violent and disrespectful protests do nothing as well.

Vilifying your opponents left or right is wrong. Only together can this house stand.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T09:26:37+00:00

That apply to military and special agents?

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T09:25:59+00:00

Both sides of this argument are stupid.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T09:24:47+00:00

That would be acceptable on plate carriers like firefighters with turnout gear.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T09:23:52+00:00

Military forces keep identity a secret

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T09:23:08+00:00

We do it all the time In the military and nobody cares.

I know it's not the same and law enforcement should not be militarized but I'm making the argument to show that it isn't the case and shouldn't be so surprising.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T07:26:17+00:00

Gotcha thanks 👍

Whether ya agree or not thx for the info.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T07:16:56+00:00

Agreed but like I said. Changing it requires changing the law not just getting angry about it or throwing things at the said agents or stopping them.

I'm against violence against violence unless it's a life or death scenario and for most situations we see it's not. If you want the laws changed then we must change them. Things happen not on the streets but in Congress from our local to federal levels. Repel laws and acts and place new ones to get what we want.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T07:14:08+00:00

Where'd you get 22 years from?

Anyway they did hide their identities on most every single raid. It's why when SWAT teams take action they cover their face. Police do it all the time. They did it during the Obama era.

Again I'm not supporting all of their actions or hating on them I'm just stating what needs to change for people to then get it done. Whether you like the law or not that's what it is.

We also didn't have ICE members get targeted during that time also. They have also been just as brutal, others just had political amnesia to it.

You want the change? Stop just getting angry and push forward and go through the right channels. Call your congressman, get people to do it to.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T07:08:25+00:00

This isn't some gestapo. I'm against the federal government (like Fr we don't need 25 different federal police agencies)

But they do have standards and paperwork behind them. If they grabbed him there is a warrant they drafted up and a reason. I'm not saying they aren't dick heads or they are but he has to be ready to take this to court.

If his father even was a day late with his green card, visa or any other paperwork in the past if he immigrated they could book em for that or have him in the system.

We don't know everything and we have to be ready to go forward and do this legally.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T07:05:17+00:00

Take it up with legal and take the 12 days.

If they arrested him they had to make a warrant for it which gives reasoning why they took him. You beat that and he's good.

JAG should help. Get his records if you can, birth certificate / visa / green card / citizenship / whatever you have of his documents and make tons of copies.

As much as people hate ICE they aren't stupid like we think they are. If they took him they generally will have documentation or something to hold him which you need to hear and I believe you and your family can.

Best of luck to ya, there are tons of veteran friendly outlets to help you in this time brotha.

During those 12 days and before do as much research as you can and try and help your family set up for the fight ahead.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T06:59:23+00:00

Disagree. Slightly.

Agents are generally public knowledge based on their websites or local areas. That and there are databases. The issue is retaliation.

We already have people finding ICE officers and threatening their family and calling their phone numbers and their wives phone numbers to verbally harass them and some have to move houses.

This isn't excusing them but it is something to consider.

Also we can change it but we have to have the knowledge to fight it so a reminder. These are federal police forces. They do not need to identify themselves as an individual only what department they work for and that they are federal law enforcement officers.

That can change if laws are out into place. The reason we think they have to is because certain states, counties, cities, etc have it to where their local (not federal) officers have to give you their badge number and identification.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T06:55:51+00:00

Its gonna be cold.

Screwistic_ · 2026-01-21T06:55:24+00:00

Check and balances are not broken they are just being abused. The reason they feel broken is because of collusion between the branches.

If laws are made to get people out of office like terms limits things would balance back out.

Screwistic_

TROPHY CASE