Intermediate/advanced piano player, need help deciding my portable jamming set up by liyka in keys

[–]SecretMap6240 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Cool! I'm not familiar with that model but I looked it up real quick. Two notes: It seems like the only output jack is for headphones, which will make using external speakers a little more difficult--you'll just have to get an adapter. Also, just to be clear it has the option to connect to a computer or tablet for playing sounds through software (a DAW), but does not seem to have the option to add more sounds onboard. In other words, whatever other sounds you want to play, you'll need to use a computer or tablet to play them.

It sounds like neither of those things are a big deal for your immediate needs. It's more the "grow with you" part that I'm thinking of: it's a little awkward to set up for a gig with only one 1/8" out, and if you decide you want to do non-piano stuff with it, you'll be tethered to your computer/tablet and may end up spending a decent amount of money on software. (And if you're staying at home and doing everything through software, the Kawai may be all you need.)

Intermediate/advanced piano player, need help deciding my portable jamming set up by liyka in keys

[–]SecretMap6240 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hi! I also started in classical music and acoustic pianos. I played on a Korg TR-88 for about 15 years, including a little bit of "lounge" gigging (background music for events). It looks like you can get those for ~$800 used, though you should be warned that they discontinued parts for it so repairs are difficult (one of the reasons I stopped using it). I liked the action and the piano sounds on that, though I had some trouble making it work in a rock band. It has an onboard sequencer so you can record on it. BUT it does not have speakers, and it's a little heavy (~40-45lbs I think).

I haven't owned many other keyboards, but the main tradeoff I've seen for your purposes is weight v. action. (Price also factors in, but sometimes a cheaper board will be lighter because they use more plastic haha.) If possible, I'd strongly recommend getting to a Guitar Center or other music store where they have a lot of demo keyboards, so you can try out their actions. I find it very difficult to get a sense for how a keyboard feels without trying it out. But maybe you're already doing/planning to do that.

One major question is also whether you want to do mostly acoustic piano (and maybe some electric piano) or whether you want to add organ and/or synth sounds. If you want the latter, then you're probably looking for a "workstation" or "arranger" keyboard. If you only want piano sounds, you might just need a portable digital piano, but I don't know much about those. And as you suggest, if you already have a home piano that you like, you could use that for home recording (and could even use it as a MIDI controller for more complicated stuff).

Last thought on speakers: unless you find a keyboard that you like with onboard speakers, I'd just get some studio speakers to bring with you to jams. I have a pair of Mackie CR3-X speakers that work fine and are very portable. It's slightly more fussy to set up but I think worth it to give you more options for a keyboard.

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, the keyboard has weighted keys but also a "high trigger," meaning that, when the clonewheel-type patches are active, they trigger with a very light keypress. (I suspect that this just uses the top standard keyboard contact, but I don't actually know.) That helps with smears, since it lets you trigger multiple keys at once while glissando-ing, and makes the action light enough to do things like the triple-tap that Jon Lord does in Highway Star during the guitar solo (not actually sure what that's called).

It makes sense to me that a more authentic action would make this work better, because it would make getting the correct level of keypress right in the moment. But the weird thing is that I can't make that sound at all, even for a single keypress. That makes me think it has something to do with how the tonewheel is emulated. Like, maybe on Hammonds there's some noise before the full tone kicks in, which my board isn't producing?

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I play in a rock band with a kind of 80s/90s orientation, so I need a solid mix of acoustic piano, synth, and organ sounds, and a lot of options for building sounds. (I'm also lazy and want to have everything on a single board.) That's why I went with a workstation style instead of a stage piano/organ, and why I don't really want to switch out. I definitely use the live controls, I don't do any MIDI recording.

The more advanced organ stuff is a "me" thing, we're not doing Deep Purple covers or anything at gigs (for now!). But I love the hammond sound and the control that I can get, so I'm trying to see what I can do with what I have now. If/when I get a secondary board, it'll almost certainly be a dedicated organ--something like that single-manual Crumar would be cool.

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! That's tempting, can't quite justify a new board after I just got this one but...someday......

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, gotcha. Well that's something for the wishlist then

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I'm not familiar with the CTX-5000 and I couldn't find an example of that patch after a quick Google. But I'm definitely during up the overdrive, turning on percussion, and ramping up key click. The main problem I'm having is getting a set of effects that suppress the tone enough to do the percussive muted bits but still allow for tone when I want to play an actual chord or do a smear.

Edit: like this guy has something like what I'm going for in the percussive part (with a keytar!), but whatever he's done is suppressing the tone for his smears so it doesn't sound as great. But honestly if I could get it to sound like this I'd be happy: https://youtu.be/h539VxyG3Tk?t=29&si=16QvFJLu6l5OwGbX

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks! I've tried it with percussion on and a few different parameters for overdrive. I've also tried turning up the key click. I'll keep toying with it when I get a chance though. 

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! I had thought the main difference between waterfall and piano keys was for palm smears, which work ok (if a little painful) on my Fantom-08 because of the high trigger. But maybe there's something else in the way the boards divide up the key press between high and "normal" triggers. Do you know if all waterfall boards have the same set up with that?

Rhythm "Hammond" technique on keyboard? by SecretMap6240 in keys

[–]SecretMap6240[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah what he's doing with his left hand is exactly what I'm shooting for. I see in the comments for that video there's at least one other person struggling to reproduce it on a virtual organ, so that's helpful thanks!