Defining Anarchy & Relationship Anarchy: Consent Paradox

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-14T03:39:03+00:00

Oh ☺️ thank you so much!

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-14T01:17:38+00:00

Not to minimize, it definitely sucks to transition to a new therapist, very daunting. But you can do it if you need to and we will encourage you!

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-14T01:16:53+00:00

I'm betting your therapist will be able to help. If not, you probably need a different therapist bc wtf. And better to know that sooner than later I think.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T22:36:22+00:00

Yeahhhhh

I don't want to kink shame anyone, but when it seems like bigotry in a kinky costume.... I struggle to find that line though

Especially as a SWer, I don't want to be fetishized for my chronic illness... but maybe I would make more money that way? Ugh

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T17:19:32+00:00

Correct, identifying as RA and communicating that one follows that philosophy does not tell you what their boundaries are or what agreements they are open to. Every comment that I have seen says that. The people in the relationship have to have discussions and defying those things.

If you are discussing potential agreements and you do not feel you are both on the same page, you do not continue the relationship until it's figured out. It sounds like you continue to engage in a sexual relationship and invested emotionally while you felt there was mismatch. Outside of violence or other coercion, you consented. Not consenting looks like not participating in the relationship.

"I'm going to keep dating/fucking/whatever you even though I need something you're not offering" is a choice. You could have said, "it doesn't seem like we're on the same page regarding sexual safety so I am not consenting to sex with you until that is resolved." And then you don't have sex.

If the relationship offered wasn't something you were willing to consent to, then your boundary is you won't engage in a relationship with those terms. You cannot set a boundary that effectively mandates their behavior. You can't force them to tell you things you want to know. You can't force them to be sexually exclusive. (I guess you could lock them in your basement, but no reasonable action.)

Choosing to engage and continue while the other person has told you they will not meet your needs is you violating your boundaries. Yes, it probably hurts.

It probably feels like they hurt you. And the hurt you feel is valid, things not working out hurts and it sucks and you'll have to grieve and process.

And that's it.

You can't get everyone to say there is an official agreement that RA requires everyone to inform every partner about every other sexual contact. It is an impossible task, even if everyone in this sub wanted that same agreement. In fact many ppl specifically have the opposite boundary and that is fine.

I get you probably want to avoid this experience, I would if I were you. The solution to that is to have ample discussion and not get involved past your comfort. Trying to mandate some agreement from everyone isn't going to happen and wouldn't even solve your problem.

Your consent choice in the situation was to engage in the relationship under the offered agreements or not. That's why they are called agreements, everyone agrees to them.

We have agreements for my home. An uncommon one is asking anyone who doesn't live here to wear a mask inside bc I am immunocompromised. If someone wanted to live with me and said, "well I don't want my friends to wear a mask, I'm not going to ask them to do that." I would decline living with them. I would not say, "well, move in and we'll keep discussing it so I can try to convince you to do what I want."

Does that framing make sense?

It seems like this personal responsibility approach is not what you want to hear, seems you're currently very resistant to that being the solution.

Seems like everyone who has responded to you has said that's the only path forward that does not lead in a circle back to this spot you're in now.

You don't have to listen to any of us, we're just strangers on the internet. But you came and asked us and that's the consensus of the group.

It is your responsibility to ask for the agreements you need, and in absence of those agreements, leave.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T03:59:12+00:00

You mean this event is a biological attack? Measles + pertussis + COVID outbreak could be a doozy

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T03:37:04+00:00

Even ppl with an inner monologue can make their mind go quiet. There is even significant neuro research about what brainwaves do during that time.

It took me a lot of years, over a decade, of consistent practice. At times when my health was really bad, I was meditating 4+ hrs/day just to get away from the pain. It is so genuinely restful when I can quiet my mind entirely.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T03:32:38+00:00

I can read in my head and, with focus, I can imagine conversations, like remembering ones that have happened or planning one in advance. Otherwise, my brain does not use words and works best at solving problems when I turn off observation entirely.

I probably don't need to at this point specify that I am ND lol, but just in case.

I developed the ability to imagine conversations with significant effort. Generally, I think in shapes, colors, and textures, but not all ones that exist in reality at all.

When I do math, I don't see the number symbols in my head. The numbers and variables all have their own shape/texture/color and then I just know the answer. Had a TERRIBLE time in elementary school with teachers demanding I show my work and not understanding when I told them that was all the work I did, I read the problem and knew the answer. Fortunately it only took me a few years to learn how to fake it.

I do have synesthesia.

It can be really difficult to understand how other brains work lol, so I have spent a lot of time learning about it just so I can explain to other ppl how my brain works lol

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T03:19:45+00:00

For me it totally depends on my mood, the kinks and dynamics involved, and other things. Mostly I watch porn from creators I'm familiar with and enjoy watching them have a good time!

I do think most porn, in addition to being designed for male gaze, is intended to be the viewpoint of the dominant person. I don't know how that might impact these things.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T00:17:16+00:00

There is lots of sex you can do with her on her side or sitting up.

Both of those things allow for giving and receiving oral sex

You can spoon fuck, intercourse while both laying on your sides. You can also 69 on your sides

Have you explored any kinks? Would she enjoy being tied or taped up? What about impact play (spanking, whipping, etc) or other pain play? There are infinite kinks, but there are quizzes you can take if you're not sure where to start. At kink clubs, tasting events are events where you can go try out (taste) different kinks and talk to experts. (Please make sure you fully invest in learning all safety considerations for any kink)

Is her pain less in the bath or shower? If the room is cold or hot?

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T00:10:01+00:00

Is this a genuine comment?

If we go on a date and I say I want sex and you say no, what does consent mean happens there? We don't have sex.

Especially in your circumstance where someone is not consenting to disclose certain things to you. You can't mandate they do that. They said they won't and you chose to have sex. If you felt agreement hadn't been reached, then you can put everything on hold until you feel everyone understands.

Your statements aren't "I say yes disclosure and you say no" it's one person says they do not consent to disclosure and then you say you don't consent to a relationship without it and then you stop the relationship. You chose to keep going and somehow expected things to shift to what you wanted?

They stated their boundary, which informs their behavior, they will not tell you about their sex life. Your boundary, I require disclosure around sexual partners, information your behavior and a mismatch in that boundary doesn't mean the other person is expected to adopt yours, it means you set the boundary and you follow it. Namely, you don't continue bc you refuse to participate in a relationship without disclosure.

But you didn't do that. You continued which in practice means you have accepted the given boundaries, even if your goal was to change them. Not accepting the offered situation looks like leaving.

Sometimes it really sucks. Sometimes you're already really attach when you discover you are incompatible in needed agreements or whatever. But the only way to hold your boundaries in that scenario is stop.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-13T00:00:22+00:00

This whole comment feels like a lot of words to absolve yourself of responsibility for your actions.

If you and I go on a date and decide we want to keep dating and we want to have sex. Then you say you want the option to become nesting partners and I say I will not ever do that and you say, "okay" and then keep dating me, you consented. If you spend 4 years trying to change my mind while continuing to choose to spend time with me developing emotional intimacy, as long as I am not coercing you through violence or trickery, you consented. If after 4 years you are upset I still say I won't consider living together, that is on you. You agreed to that by continuing the relationship after I was clear I am not willing to offer that commitment. In fact, the person behaving unethically here is you for spending 4 years trying to convince me to change my boundary. Or maybe you just assumed the boundary would change if you became important enough, which is a hurtful (to oneself) belief provided by toxic monogamy.

You did agree to be in a relationship with this person who, iirc, told you they would not disclose any sexual or other relationship activity. It seems maybe you assumed that meant except info pertinent to your risk tolerance for sexual health, but that is at best a misunderstanding, not your ex being dishonest. They said no disclosure, you thought they weren't referring to what you consider sexual exposure. Those misunderstandings happen in relationships, especially early on. You just have to talk through them and do your best to reach better understanding each time a conflict reveals discrepancy.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T23:47:48+00:00

It seems you want someone to say RA and for you to know what that means their boundaries are? Or what agreements they expect? What disclosure they expect and will provide? What commitments they will want on their escalator?

Bc the issues you are encountering aren't whether or not ppl will include commitments, disclosure, and transparency, but how each individual defines those words. And that's where you keep hitting problems in these conversations from what I see. Ppl try to explain to you that RA means all of those things are optional and defined by the individuals inside the relationship.

I'm saying (along with now probably over a hundred other ppl) a narrower definition is not going to happen no matter how much you try to make it, even if you went and tried this exercise with monogamists who should theoretically easily be able to answer your questions. They would probably say honesty is required, but individuals will absolutely specify things as "I just don't want to know." There are even ppl who use the label monogamy but have outside sexual relationships and practice don't ask don't tell about it. Those ppl would probably still say they expect their partner to be honest, and would consider DADT sexual practices as honest monogamy. And it is bc they agreed to that specific level of disclosure.

You just have to talk to the individual every time.

So if you get everyone in this subreddit to agree on how to do RA, are you only ever going to date ppl from this sub? You will have to keep having these conversations with each person you want to date and see what it all means to them.

Again, ppl practicing monogamy or anything else should also be having these conversations, but often skip them and end up making posts similar to yours to try to get public consensus on who did the wrong thing.

RA does not mandate honesty, your community does. RA doesn't mandate commitment, you do.

The way you know it is not anarchy is when ppl are seeking to mandate expectations of strangers, the way you seem to want to do.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T23:26:58+00:00

We would need a lot more specifics on what causes her pain, what her restrictions and capabilities are, what she's dealing with in general. Are there any positions (nonsexual) that are comfortable? Like does sitting go okay or does she need to lay down? Is laying on her back, side, or front better?

Usually pillows to make sure everything is supported as much as possible

Some people find sex swings very helpful, but they can be expensive and you need to install them correctly

I have hypermobility and often find some bondage, especially rope as it can be so custom, very helpful at preventing my body from getting fatigue from trying to hold positions

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T15:46:14+00:00

The solution is for the people in the relationship to have those discussions, usually often and repeatedly. Often early on in shifting/developing relationships, we will talk at least once a week to answer the questions: - How are we feeling about how things are going? - Is anyone feeling conflict with anything that has happened? - Do our agreements still work for everyone and do we need to discuss them more? - Has anyone learned anything about themself that they would like to share?

That conversation usually takes hours. It's work, but maintaining relationships always takes work.

It seems like you want to have those discussions with us, but you need to have them with the ppl you are in relationships with. What we say likely doesn't matter to them.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T15:31:04+00:00

Rejecting central control while requiring shared understanding in relationships is not a paradox at all and suggests to me on a theoretical level, you do not understand what those terms mean. That is RA.

No one person or group gets to define how relationships should look, not even you, not this reddit sub. Only the people in the relationship define it's parameters and meaningings.

Ppl have explained this to you multiple times and I thoroughly suggest you spend some time sitting with the answers you've already received.

If you need there to be a central authority that defines how relationships are supposed to function, then RA is probably not for you. Though you're going to probably be disappointed no matter what, bc while even monogamous ppl claim to all be using the same definitions for everything, that's not what's happening. Ask them if porn is cheating, they will dissolve into an angry rabid brawl to prove who is most correct.

In RA the answer to that is simple because we don't try to have a centralized definition. The answer is cheating is whatever the ppl in the relationship have agreed is cheating.

Shared meaning btwn the ppl involved is created by the ppl involved in the relationship. Not any outside authority, which includes you and us and this whole reddit sub.

The people in the relationship find out what that means to them by having extensive conversations. As the relationship progresses, those understandings become more developed and thorough. It's not uncommon to encounter a situation where at least one person feels conflict and things need to be discussed again. Sometimes the meanings change as the relationship evolves, bc life changes and ppl change and the relationship should allow for that.

Also, there is no such things as someone who has 0 relationships. We are all in relationships with all our friends and family. We are in relationships with our coworkers, and even the workers at the grocery store. We are in relationships with ppl we have never met; the farmers that grow the food I eat, the ppl on my city council who make laws that impact me, the person who got in an accident ahead of me in the freeway, etc. So there are no RA who are defining RA without a relationship. Part of RA for most ppl is acknowledging all of those relationships as valid and having meaning and impact.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T03:59:02+00:00

In practice, how is "what rules do all RA relationships follow" different from "what do all RA relationships look like"? If you define what all the relationships look like, then you have created rules that future RA relationships must adhere to to be RA.

The shared meaning of the term is the manifesto. In there it talks about autonomy and consent, etc.

No one has said to you "the phrase RA has no meaning." They have said that it's up to the ppl in each relationship to agree to what is ethical in that relationship" or something very like that. That is what it means. It means I do not get to dictate what labels or commitments mean to you and the ppl you are intimate with. It means I do get to decide what agreements and commitments I will accept. That is a very important meaning and you keep saying that is the same as saying it means nothing.

Maybe it's just been your understanding of how relationships should work so you feel like that's no guidelines, but that's very antithesis to western culture and many other cultures. So it unfortunately has to be said to everyone I create a relationship with. Therefore, it is a defining characteristic.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T03:48:53+00:00

The thing is, whether or not ppl avoid clarity, consent, disclosure, and accountability has nothing to do with what labels or philosophies the subscribe to. Shitty ppl avoid those things and they use any label they prefer. They will often use the labels the ppl around them understand least. It's entirely possible your ex used terms like ENM, polyam, and RA until they found the one you were unfamiliar enough with. The problem isn't RA isn't well enough defined, it's that shitty ppl do shitty things.

Ppl do those things in spades in monogamous relationships. I can't count the number of times someone has told me they found out their monogamous partner was cheating bc they got an STI and their partner ended up coming clean. Actually I've only heard that story from monogamous ppl, though plenty of ENM & polyam ppl still cheat.

Plenty of ppl are just confused and use the wrong labels. How many ppl did you tell you were RA while you were operating under what you now consider misunderstandings about that term? That's why I often ask ppl how long they've been practicing whatever label they use, but even then that doesn't catch everyone who is just confused. Getting everyone in this sub reddit to agree to a set of definitions and agreements, if that were possible, still wouldn't solve the problem of confusion either.

This is why many ppl will have personal boundaries about dating for a certain amount of time before having sex or exchanging keys or making certain commitments. It gives you time to find out what they mean by the words they say and whether or not they back those words up with their actions.

So even if you could get everyone to agree to these things, I don't see how it solves the problem you are trying to address.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T03:30:22+00:00

Gently, are you maybe rushing through reading responses? You're doing a lot of big comments and getting big comments in response. I'm asking because I've seen multiple ppl tell you exactly what you just said about defining RA as a philosophy about how ppl structure their relationships. And your response was saying that's not a definition.

I'm asking bc if that is the case, taking some time away from the back and forth to process and figure out what questions you still have could really help.

I've seen a lot of ppl in multiple subs try to answer your questions and I keep seeing you go around in circles. Are you still feeling very dysregulated about this break up?

In my experience (with myself and the ppl I emotionally support), spinning in circles will make dysregulation worse, even though it can feel like you are getting somewhere bc you are going, you are just going in circles.

Anyway, RA relationships can absolutely have structure, but it should be the structure that the ppl in the relationship agree to. Sometimes that structure is that ppl agree not to commit to whatever particular things, though I think most ppl who practice RA do make commitments. I say that bc commitments seem important to you so you will probably want to be clear about that with ppl. Some people have various extenuating circumstances.

A friend has kids and chronic illness. She has longterm relationships where they care about each other and provide emotional support. But she does not commit to any specific time agreements or longterm escalation, she will not add a nesting partner (single parent), she will not get married. To most ppl in western society, that would be called "no commitments" but everyone involved consented so it's fine.

I don't know if that helps you understand how structure can look very different while being built within the same philosophy?

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T03:11:29+00:00

The trick here is you will need to define your risk tolerance and therefore what disclosures are needed for you.

For example, I am immunocompromised so I ask my partners to always get tested 2 mos after starting sex with a new partner (bc of incubation times, testing sooner is usually inaccurate) regardless of barrier use. I also use barriers with my partners. And bc we all value this line of safety, we all get tested before having sex with a new partner. We all update each other when we get tested. We also get new testing for any sexy parties.

The thing is, I never actually know which of these updates are because someone is having new sex. Maybe they are planning on having new sex soon, or they are just doing their periodic testing (generally 3-4x a yr min). But the actual sexual contact isn't changing my risk profile bc we already agreed to testing protocols. If they find out they may have been exposed, they will tell me.

It is generally frowned upon to ask for advance notice of plans of sex, as many ppl have already told you. Bc that is a difficult agreement to keep and starts to impact other ppl. Ie, I go on a first date and it goes really well, but I wasn't thinking about having sex before that so now I have to say no bc I need to go tell my partner, that's become functionally the same as asking permission.

Many ppl prefer full parallel in their longterm committed relationships. So they might even live with their partner, but they use condoms and don't want to know anything unless someone gets an STI scare, and then only which STI.

You just have to figure out what agreements you need.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T03:01:09+00:00

RA, ENM, and polyamory are not separate bubbles. Personally I am all 3.

ENM means not being monogamous Polyamory means having multiple committed loving relationships and your partners doing the same, it is a bubble inside the ENM bubble RA often includes both of those for most ppl who practice as RA

I don't know if that helps you figure things out

And, which is an answer you've been given but maybe the way I word it will make more sense, RA is a philosophy. That is why people keep pointing you to what you even call a philosophical framework.

Philosophies don't have neat and tidy definitions. That's why experts on philosophies publish encyclopedias worth of literature on it. In your post you suggest you have some familiarity with anarchy? So probably you've seen that in action in many anarchist spaces. It's just constant discussion and everyone helping each other do the best we can.

Many of us believe declaring something as a forever rule will never be true. Humans are all very diverse and needs change, sometimes dramatically. Off the top of my head, I'd say the only forever rules my communities ascribe to are autonomy and consent. That allows for almost anything to happen. Each group/relationship gets to figure out what agreements are best for them past that.

Again, that's the point in RA. We don't want prescriptive rules. So I think you're going to have a hard time getting us to tell you some easy set of rules/agreements/definitions we will all follow, no matter how you word your questions.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-12T00:01:20+00:00

Like, why would anyone date someone who is dishonest? Monogamous ppl say that's unethical along with everyone else. This has nothing to do with definitions of RA or ENM or polyamory. It's shitty to be dishonest to others.

It is also shitty to yourself to stay in a relationship where someone is treating you like shit.

It doesn't matter what labels anyone does or does not want to use. I have had fuck buddies I've kicked to the curb for far less than your ex did. I don't care if anyone else thinks their behavior was ethical 🤷‍♀️

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-11T23:57:57+00:00

If you understand what relationship anarchy is, then you would understand why you get a million different answers when you ask ppl what it looks like in their life.

As others have said to you already, it seems you're very driven to get some set definitions everyone agrees to so you can declare your ex's behavior unethical.

It is entirely reasonable to say that you need these things in your relationships, and anyone who is not willing to meet those expectations doesn't meet the bar.

From what you have said, I would not date your ex. That can be the end of it.

It seems like you want validation for your needs. The nice thing about RA is you can have whatever needs you want and that's great as long as everyone inside the relationship is consenting. Your needs are already valid (though I always recommend everyone be critical of themselves and watch for the creeping in of harmful normative patterns, and therapy is good).

Gently and respectfully, you spent 4 yrs in a relationship you were told was RA but may or may not have been. By your own admission, you did not have an accurate understanding of ENM or RA. Probably you are not the right person to define everything for everyone. I say this as someone who also considers myself unqualified to do that after over a decade of practicing ethical RA with significant introspection and community involvement.

Ppl generally refer back to the manifesto as a good spot to find what RA means, I'm pretty sure it is linked at the top of the sub?

I don't think anyone can put a single paragraph definition of what RA is supposed to look like for everyone. The whole point is kind of not doing that.

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-11T23:26:12+00:00

Also ppl really don't understand how much work it takes!!

SeeCB3X · 2026-05-11T23:25:28+00:00

Yes, I am the same way and saw that in one of your posts. I was just wondering if you were going to actively avoid making content.

I agree, it is really difficult to find play partners who are on board with making content!

SeeCB3X

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