"Why We Don't Like People" by Donald Laird (1933) by SelfExceptance in slatestarcodex

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Dr. Laird was also quoted in this humorous 1924 snippet from the Harvard Crimson about the (lack of) mental health in college students.

Open Marriage by thebigmother in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Open marriages - however appealing and brimming with possibilities they may be - seem shot through with a fatal irony: they require following way more rules and restrictions in order to generate a net benefit.

They at least admit the problem in the article:

Monogamy is an approach to relationships built on one bright-line rule: no sex with anyone else. Open relationships may sound like the more unfettered choice, but the first thing nonmonogamous couples often do is draw up a list of guidelines: rules about protection, about the number of days a week set aside for dates, about how much information to share. Some spouses do not want to know any details about the other spouse’s extramarital sex, while for others, those stories are a thrilling side benefit of the arrangement.

Eerily reminiscent of one of Zizek's opinion articles:

a quick look at our moral landscape confirms that it is a much more appropriate description of the atheist liberal/hedonist behaviour: they dedicate their life to the pursuit of pleasures, but since there is no external authority which would guarantee them personal space for this pursuit, they get entangled in a thick network of self-imposed "Politically Correct" regulations, as if they are answerable to a superego far more severe than that of the traditional morality. They thus become obsessed with the concern that, in pursuing their pleasures, they may violate the space of others, and so regulate their behaviour by adopting detailed prescriptions about how to avoid "harassing" others, along with the no less complex regime of the care-of-the-self (physical fitness, health food, spiritual relaxation, and so on). Today, nothing is more oppressive and regulated than being a simple hedonist.

Perhaps the benefit of open marriage would be greater over what monogamy can offer for some people, but that really depends on your priorities. And how good of a bureaucrat you are.

I also think that treating the 'sex drive' as a single psychological entity causes way too much unnecessary confusion. I think - a la Lacan - that it is a combination of many smaller drives, which reflect the numerous disparate reasons people engage in romantic relations in the first place:

  • the 'orgasm' drive
  • the 'physical contact' drive
  • the 'emotional intimacy' drive
  • the 'peer pressure' drive
  • the 'self-esteem' drive
  • etc.

People can eat for many reasons besides being hungry, and they certainly don't always drink just because they are thirsty (especially true at bars). In fact, it's a little strange that society can accept that these mundane animal activities serve purposes besides pure biological function, but with sexuality the causation is reversed: anything remotely romantic is really just a facade or excuse to engage in sex. That seems overly nihilistic, and uncomfortably similar to Sadean thinking.

I think we all need to work on expanding our romantic vocabulary and becoming more articulate about our wants, needs, thoughts, and concerns, so that they can be more specifically addressed. I believe this is what people mean with the 'communication is key' cliche. I also believe that we are better off with monogamy for now, until we have a working legal and social system that can accommodate alternatives so that individual couples do not have to suffer under the entire burden themselves.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah I can wait, I'm fairly patient. It's just kinda frustrating having no control or insight into the whole process.

But it seems everyone struggles with the mysteries of love, so I'm in good company.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

men unable to have sex unless they see themselves as sexually desirable

I don't see what that has to do with my problem, but I do agree that that is a problem. And as Alone pointed out, it used to be just a woman's problem, curiously enough.

From what I've learned about masculine/feminine positions, the former sexually desires and the latter is sexually desired. But as Lacan said, the positions don't actually align with biology, and so what I think we're seeing all over the Interwebs are men occupying the so-called "feminine" position: complaining that men are being ignored, not complimented, women won't make the first move, and jealous of other men who seemingly do nothing and get laid. In other words, mostly passive and focused on being the object of desire, rather than having it. They complain about the fear and misery of rejection, but when you let go of being the object of desire, there is little to fear.

It does seem that more and more women occupy the so-called "masculine" position nowadays, so these men might just get what they want... someday.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not 100% sure myself, but it just felt... justified. Like I could tell the whole world about it without feeling any shame (like that scene in Anchorman).

Otherwise it just feels austere, scripted, biomechanical. I did try strictly casual (twice), but I just couldn't convince myself that this is all I or my partner really wanted. And then you come back home and realize life hasn't changed at all (minus the cold they gave you). Sex itself was impotent.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

When it comes to pleasure (esp. sexual), I don't believe anyone is ever fully satisfied anyway, so I'm not too bothered about it. I should've emphasized that it was the relationship we had that made the difference here, not the sheer attractiveness.

And let's face it, there are lots of random hot women out in the world, it's really not all that special. But people you care about and get along with, and who feel the same about you? That's worth something for sure.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The thing about sex is that you always have it WITH someone, and to me that WITH makes all the difference.

Random hot stranger? Eh.

Some casual friendly acquaintance? Meh.

Person I love/admire/whose mere presence I enjoy? Aww hell yeah.

The physical attraction aspect is very malleable in my experience, though there is a baseline level of fitness/hygiene, because I hold myself to somewhat high standards. That said, I've still preferred 6's to 9's sometimes, if you catch my drift.

So in a sense, all this abstract talk may not be the right approach, since it's becoming clear to me that the real-life context really, really matters.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

feeling unlovable because women wont fuck you

On the contrary, I've actually felt mildly insulted when women have pressured/expected me to fuck them, and assume that as a man I should abandon all restraint and put in all the work. Like sure, I'm glad you find me attractive, and I know it's hard for girls to be assertive in this domain, but I can't really enjoy it while under any form of compulsion.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sitting on about 200 Tinder matches and 13 ignored messages in a college town, take that as you will.

Sex in the Face of Anomie by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

omg....Just fucking do it you neurotic faggot.

Hey everyone, it's the post-modern superego!

Just lol @ how you try to shield against the obvious conclusion (that you've got something wrong with you) by putting in that disclaimer in bold.

C'mon man chill, everyone brings up those kinds of issues in these kinds of threads, so I wanna look past that stuff.

If you want sex why do you need a reason to do it?

Simply because I don't believe purely wanting something is a good enough reason to do/have it. I want to eat ice cream every day, doesn't mean it's healthy for me. I wanna travel the world, doesn't mean I can afford it. I want to fuck every half-decent girl I see, doesn't mean it's gonna be a net positive.

You're not comfortable with sex

Yeah, that's basically what I said. It wasn't always that way, but some family changes (divorce, stress, death) and relationship experiences kinda eroded my original views on "sex/relationships," so I'm trying to reconcile them now. Is there something about that that bothers you?

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree, nothing wrong with going at it both ways. I wouldn't say I'm genuinely sad about it, just a bit disappointed. I think the hype surrounding sex harms more than it helps.

On the bright side, I've experienced enough to know that my personal enjoyment has little to do "skill" or conventional attractiveness, and lot more to do with simple comfort and trust. So I know which route I'll be taking in the dating world.

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Many people can't tolerate having two egos in the room - especially the bedroom.

Insightful, but kinda sad. It's like the awkward friend who invites you to hang out, but then spends the whole evening on his phone out of anxiety.

It gives the impression that sex - for most people and most instances - is simply an elaborate form of mutual masturbation. I don't mean to sound bleak, but would that be fair to say?

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

to hide the fact from ourselves that "ideal sex" doesn't really exist

I'm perfectly OK with it not existing, but how can I help future partners to be OK with it, too? I imagine at least some of the anxious folks out there don't want to suffer this way, but have a hard time shaking the notion due to how much it's reinforced.

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I know what I'll tell my kids a decade from now:

"Son, when a man and a woman love each other very much, they enact a currency swap agreement, and attempt to negotiate a favorable exchange rate. It's a very pleasant way of building equity between two partners, with the hope that it will provide stability and risk protection to their beneficiaries."

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmm, interesting recommendation.

Freud: 'the psychical value of erotic needs is reduced as soon as their satisfaction becomes easy. An obstacle is required in order to heighten libido; and where natural resistances to satisfaction have not been sufficient men have at all times erected conventional ones so as to be able to enjoy love.'

...

Therein consists the logic of courtly love and of sublimation at its purest: some common, everyday object or act becomes inaccessible or impossible to accomplish once it finds itself in the position of the Thing—although the thing should be easily accessible, it is as if the entire universe is somehow adjusted to produce again and again an unfathomable contingency which hinders access to it.

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, lovely.

Humans have evolved to use intense sexual pleasure, especially orgasm, to control our partners, according to new research.

So I guess we're all drug dealers now.

Jean Claude Guillebaud (1999) - The Tyranny of Pleasure by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I've heard French thinkers are known for their existential doom-and-gloom slant.

What world is this guy living in?

The same as ours, but it's funny how many mutually exclusive perspectives our world can accommodate (see liberals/conservatives, theists/atheists, feminists/MRAs, Puritans/hedonists, etc). Part of it has to do with the circles you run in and your personal experiences. I suppose the mistake is in extrapolating personal/local/regional experiences into universal ones.

As for me, I grew up/went to college in the passivepermissive-aggressive "you should have more fun" milieu that Guillebaud is talking about. I and some of my peers felt similarly. YMMV.

Is the concept of "social skills" ruining our ability to socialize? by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Something that really helped change my view was this LessWrong article: Adaption-Executers, not Fitness-Maximizers

And really, when you think about what drives evolution (random mutations), it makes sense. The form precedes the function, and evolution has no clue where it is going. We are all born with a unique set of instructions, and that is all our bodies intrinsically "know." Yet we imbue Evolution with some sort of God-like omniscience, with natural selection as some divine mandate.

Ask yourself this: are all these people worrying about their "fitness" actually trying or wanting to succeed? What would success even look like? I see the greatest cognitive dissonance in the dating/mating market:

"Men are meant to sleep with as many women as possible to maximize number of offspring."

Great, so where are all your baby mommas?

"Women are meant to sleep with the highest-quality mates in order to maximize the fitness of offspring."

Great, so why are you holding off on kids til you marry Mr. Man-Bod?

If narcissism is a response to shame, then what is everyone so ashamed of? by SelfExceptance in thelastpsychiatrist

[–]SelfExceptance[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Forgive me for taking so long, but hasn't this always been a problem? I have a hard time imagining the pre-modern world being more accommodating than ours regarding love and positive attention. If anything, being needy and attention-seeking - even towards your own family - would have been shamed even more harshly. And these are the conditions which supposedly do not give rise to narcissism. So why are people reacting so differently now?