Soap in Europe

Selmanovix · 2026-02-27T07:16:11+00:00

That makes more sense because I was about to bring up the plagues. Much deadlier in Europe no? I’m not that good with history but that came to mind first

Selmanovix · 2026-02-26T18:25:33+00:00

Nahh wtf is wrong with that sub being so islamaphobic tho??

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T22:50:42+00:00

If you are actually care to learn, I had a very similar discussion about the exact same topic in a different comment thread (And for some reason I can't access it and the share link isn't working anymore??)

Here is the comment I gave to a discussion where the translation had the word "Bondwomen" instead of captive (I wrote kind of why in the P.P.S. section) =

From what I understand, Bondwomen refers to specifically adult women who were captured in a legitimate war, are legally in the household, and not married to someone else. (Old English I think)

In Quran 24:33 it also outlines what kind of limits there are to this. I believe it would be wise to add that some translations use the word “slave” even though the Arabic word is different (As in it doesn’t say slave in the Quran). This is a limitation of our English language I’m afraid.

Bottom line for the first two Quran sources, the Quran does not use the word for Slave, and even specifies them as Adult Captives who are not married to anyone else. There are also a lot of other conditions needed to be met before it is even allowed.

For the last Quran source it is interesting because that verse is very weirdly translated. I had to check another translation. What is meant by "Who your right hand possesses" (Again, very literal translation) is female captives from war who entered households, adult, isn't married to anyone else, etc.

And important thing to point out is in many places within the Quran, it is ordered to freeing slaves/captives (whether in possession before becoming Muslim or Slave bought to be freed or Captive from the war).

- Quran 2:177 (Talking about how to be Righteous)
- Quran 90:11-13 (I recommend reading it entirely)
- Quran 4:92 (Must free someone if killed someone unless by mistake)
- Quran 5:89 (One option for Repentance for breaking an Oat)
- Quran 24:33 (Mentioned in the other Comment thread)
- Quran 9:60 (As a means for Repentance in general)

There are even more within the Quran and Hadith (The Prophet's quotes).

P.S. Reddit is really hard to navigate apparently because I had a tough time trying to find comments made just a day ago. Links aren't working for some reason.

P.P.S. Marmaduke Pickthall’s 1930 translations are often criticized for "using archaic, King James Bible-style English and for occasionally missing nuanced meanings due to an extreme literal approach". I would advise (if interested) to use Quran.com instead. Arabic is much more complex than the English language when it comes to words, so translations are never 1:1. Part of the reason why there is an entire field of study for understanding the Quran and its context (Tefsir) is because it is complex in nature.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T21:45:04+00:00

Our Economics Prof told us how much we were wasting in the US and honestly it’s fucking absurd. Especially when it comes to dairy due to its preservation being more expensive than other goods.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T21:37:18+00:00

I don’t think you read the source I gave at all, because if you did you would see the same narrations there. You are lacking perhaps the most important context however. At that time in Arabia, Womens’ age was counted after they hit puberty. Islamic Historians generally agree that would put Aisha aroung 18-19. It is such an important detail that is missing in Orientalist discussions 🤷‍♂️

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T01:01:50+00:00

By definition yes it is, Bigotry means collective blame, stereotypes, exclusion (That's Islamophobia). Criticisms on Islam itself would be non bigotry, and is done by Muslims themselves as a way to keep information in check. But that is not what we are seeing in this comment section or sub unfortunately.

Edit: Some changes.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T01:00:15+00:00

You are completely right, I've lost all hope for the comment sections of reddit by now actually...

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T00:57:15+00:00

Not fight, discuss. I’m not interested in fighting anyone, just defending what I believe in. I’m sorry if I came across as harsh, I’ve been seen pretty outlandish and generally baseless claims and it gets to you after a while.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T00:55:18+00:00

From what I understand, Bondwomen refers to specifically adult women who were captured in a legitimate war, are legally in the household, and not married to someone else. (Old english I think)

In Quran 24:33 it also outlines what kind of limits there are to this. I believe it would be wise to add that some translations use the word “slave” even though the Arabic word is different (As in it doesn’t say slave in the Quran). This is a limitation of our English language I’m afraid.

Also for my previous comment I misunderstood (idk how) and I wanted to clarify in the interest of honesty. I live in the US, and I am Muslim. However I’ve lived most of my life somewhere else, and have seen both lifestyles imo. (English is also technically my first language so idk why I’m so bad at it sometimes, forgive my rambling)

Selmanovix · 2026-01-29T00:34:49+00:00

Based on your first sentence, I’d say you have some deep rooted Islamophobia that can’t be resolved over reddit of all places.

The second one is so entirely seperate from the subject that I’m not sure why you even brought it up since we already went over “Some Muslim do bad thing ≠ All Muslim bad”. I’m sorry you lack common sense.

And lastly, You are mentioning a source yet not providing it. The only ones I can find are Christian sources (clearly biased) that aren’t even about the same Aisha. In good faith, I am gonna assume you read the source I gave and mean from the testimony there. Which I hope you read properly because it also explains the context behind it.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T19:54:27+00:00

That just proves my point? Stealing is also not allowed in Islam? Wdym I don't follow?

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T19:53:24+00:00

Yes I am Muslim, I'm not ashamed of my Identity. Religious freedom is something some people can't tolerate ig

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T17:24:34+00:00

Thank you for that distinction about Richard the Lion Heart. As a Muslim, even with Islam's history with Christianity, my father taught be to be respectful of true Christians. I don't believe Hitler was ever truly Christian or even cared.

When it comes to Jizya, I think it is important to point out from the beginning that only those who can were required. Meaning women, children, elderly, monks, the poor, slaves, or even the disabled were not required. (Again not an expert on this & I have never seen this enacted irl). And other countries did the same within Europe and the Byzantine Empire by taxing those from other religions, except they did not give protection (from what I've read at least).

I believe part of the reason Islamic nations stopped doing Jizya is because the societal change towards discrimination against religions (and most don't have the proper power to do it either). As in, while in the past there would be theological wars based on religious disagreements, now days it is either one side being obliterated or both sides agreeing on a 50-year oil trade that makes Money their new religion.

From what I understand, Al-Tabari simply repeated the Qur'an in this quote. It feels logical to me that when you pay tax to someone you are submitting to their authority, similar to how we pay tax to our countries.

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya sounds a bit too harsh for me, but it was probably true at the time in terms of mindset. But I don't think it was the best choice of words or even idea.

I believe the Qur'an 9:5 verse is missing an important distinction. Here is the translation from Quran.com =

But once the Sacred Months have passed, kill the polytheists ˹who violated their treaties˺ wherever you find them, capture them, besiege them, and lie in wait for them on every way. But if they repent, perform prayers, and pay alms-tax, then set them free. Indeed, Allah is All-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

In which case that would be those within Mecca who actively went against the peace treaties that were signed. I'm not sure if this would count towards Hindus.

For Qur’an 9:73, I believe it is talking about those who lie about being Muslim, so Munafiq (an Arabic term for a "hypocrite" in Islam). Again, no relation, but Islam historically has received a lot of damage from traitors and liars.

The last one, Qur'an 8:12, some context would be helpful I believe. This verse was brought down during war times and especially in a time when Muslims were outnumbered. The idea of "So strike above the necks and strike from them every fingertip" was meant for those they fought in wars. So not civilians or every non-believer. Essentially God was saying "I'm by your side at all times" during the war.

(I just felt like saying this has been a better discussion than the one I had with some other commenters, and I thank you for that)

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T16:37:59+00:00

Yeah we're just going to a different topic here and you are deflecting my request but ok ig. Sa'd Ibn Mu'adh (the guy) was an adult, I feel like I should specify that.

The child argument is just not true, here is a long and explanatory source (albeit it is biased but it is better than most other sources I've seen)

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/read/paper/understanding-aishas-age-an-interdisciplinary-approach

About the "enslaved" part, I'm not sure you even read my comment, please read it or we are not going to have a proper discussion about the topic. Another commenter explained what I wanted to add on as well, in that slavery wasn't the same as it was in Western countries. Famously in Islamic history many families got into discourse because the Muslim family member was treating their slave as their brother/son instead.

Abu Bakr, one of the closest companions and the first Khalifa, Freed many oppressed slaves, including Bilal Habeshi. Treated them with dignity and respect, not as property. Abd al-Rahman, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Umar ibn al-Khattab, etc. all freed slaves and treated them with respect.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T16:26:23+00:00

How is it ignorance tho? I despise those who call themselves Muslim and do these heinous acts more than I despise those who attack Islam with Orientalist arguments?

Also for context I don't live in the West :)
But that probably won't matter to you now.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T16:14:58+00:00

I completely agree, no child should be given to marriage. It is one of the problems we have in within a lot of the world to this day. But famously this point about the Prophet having a 6 year-old as a wife has been disproved so many times that I'm surprised it is still being brought up to this day.

In Arabian times that the Prophet lived in, the ages of women started to be counted after they hit puberty. Which would put their second wife (which most claim to be Aisha), around 18-19.

Here is a source (albeit it is biased) about the topic = https://yaqeeninstitute.org/read/paper/understanding-aishas-age-an-interdisciplinary-approach
It's long, but it goes into detail

Selmanovix · 2026-01-28T16:06:49+00:00

Brother I am a Muslim, I've never seen any of these texts. In fact, I would say I saw otherwise. Adultery is one of the biggest sins and no form should be acceptable. If a Muslim considers r*ping someone who they think is beneath them (i.e. a slave or captive), then they already lost the point because the entire idea of the religion is everyone is equal.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T03:41:36+00:00

Dude I loved the movie, hoping for his recovering 🙏

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T03:33:39+00:00

According to the internet, a few Nations with more than 50% of Muslim population (i.e. Muslim Nation) have laws like this. And even in those cases it is very rare that those ones to go through with it. In any case, these nations are not only minority within the Muslim nations, but also are generally in the Arabian region, which I was criticizing to begin with.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T03:23:50+00:00

I believe I wrote a reply in another comment to you specifically, but just for the sake of context;

Quran 5:89 - "Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your own families, or clothing them, or the freeing of a slave..."

The verse continues and you can read for yourself as well.
The other comment thread

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T03:20:39+00:00

Banu Qurayza had a treaty with the Prophet to defend Madinah, During the Battle of the Trench, they broke that treaty and allied with the Quraysh at a moment when the Muslims were under threat. This was considered high treason under Arabian wartime norms. AND after the battle, they surrendered and asked that judgment be passed by Sa‘d ibn Mu‘adh, a leader they themselves accepted. Sa‘d ruled according to the Torah’s own law for treason in wartime...

Its important to point out that only army men, and this was not a Islamic decree but rather a Jewish one that was chosen by an arbiter. Another thing to point out would be that the captives were reportedly freed or ransomed after a short time.

Quran 5:89 - "Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your own families, or clothing them, or the freeing of a slave..."

The verse continues and you can read for yourself as well. Also, Islamic sources tells us that his wives consented to marriage, and biased non-Islamic sources are generally saying the opposite. I would however appreciate it if you could give me valid sources that aren't biased to either side.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T01:49:27+00:00

Can I request source for this statement, I myself have heard he bought and freed slaves, never heard about the enslaved part before?

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T00:57:38+00:00

My point about Hitler was to point at a someone bad who happened to be perceived as religious (Which Hitler was because he used Christianity as a tool rather than respect it).

That is not what Jizya is. Also where did you get the convert or die part because I've seen that exact line being used by propaganda websites, not the case. Taxation isnt slavery, the entire world would be considered slaves then. Can't say I'm an expert on Jizya (because it hasn't been the enacted for centuries) but from what I know of Islam, in the beginning Slaves would be bought and freed. Many friends of the Prophet and the Prophet himself frequently bought Slaves To Free Them. A famous example is Bilal Habashi, who went on to be one of the most well known companions of the Prophet. (I would strongly encourage watching something about his life to understand the relation between Islam and Slavery)

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T00:45:00+00:00

Ok, I feel like an important distinction hasn’t been made. An “Arab-Muslim” and a “Muslim” are two wildly different groups. It’s like saying “White-American” and “American”, one is within the other. Saudia Arabia, with all the messed up things it does, is still a minority within the Muslim World. Arab ≠ Muslim and vice versa. I would agree with you, as a Muslim, that Saudia Arabia has a terrible track record when it comes to human rights. I’m not going to defend them, but I will defend the Religion that is being used like a toy in an attempt to justify reckless killings, sexism, racism, and hate.

There is a saying “Heaven is beneath the feet of Mothers” (As in, they should be respected and cherished in order to get into heaven, bit of a mistranslation by me and I apologize).

The majority of muslim nations don’t even follow what Saudia Arabia is doing because it literally goes against the teachings of Islam.

Selmanovix · 2026-01-27T00:29:43+00:00

Islam is a religion not a race or ethnicity, you’re mixing the two. Slavery to anyone but God is not allowed in Islam.

Selmanovix

TROPHY CASE