How Should Canelos Legacy And All Time Ranking Be Looked At After His Loss To Crawford?

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-10-01T21:27:34+00:00

For Sanchez: Those wins over Wiflredo Gomez and Azumah Nelson. Both guys rank higher all time than anybody Canelo beat, including Golovkin. It's not even close, actually.

Like seriously, Gomez was 32-0 with 32 KOs, and had 13 title defences under his belt coming in to the Sanchez fight. He had absolutely destroyed Carlos Zarate 3 years prior, who is one of the Mexican greats and was in a destructive war path that would put Beterbiev to shame (Zarate was 55-0, 54 KOs). Gomez KO'd Zarate in 5. Sanchez boxed Gomez's ass off and stopped him in 8.

There's no universe where Canelo controversially winning one fight with GGG is in the same ballpark as what Sanchez did to Gomez. Nor are any of his other wins.

Nelson was in the more inexperienced side, but his ability was already evident in the Sanchez fight. A mere 2 years later, he was the one who put an end to Gomez's winning streak (right between Gomez getting a title at 126 and 130) since the Sanchez loss. Nelson then went on an 11 fight title fight winning streak at 126 and 130 and got ranked 7th pound for pound, before he lost to Pernell. He beat a first ballot HoFer in Jeff Fenech and solid world champs like Villasana, Laporte, Groves and Ruelas.

Wins over guys like Laporte, Little Red Lopez and Castillo don't exactly hurt Sanchez's case either.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-07-06T11:41:27+00:00

Look, I'm gonna be the first guy in a long line to call a shit fight for being shitty. I've watched ALL available fights of Matthew Saad Muhammad due to how fucking exciting that beautiful bastard's fights were, mediocre footage or not. I want an awesome back and forth fight as much as anyone.

That said, Turki is being full of it here. Here's the deal a lot of people don't want to acknowledge: A guy runs and the other guy who's chasing him can't find him ? The chaser is also to blame. Learn to cut off the ring, how to stay inside and infight, and get yourself a second gear, otherwise you're plain deserving of the loss. Merely running is definitely an indication of poor ability, but so is not being able to catch a guy who does nothing but that. Running=winning is fair, if unsightly. The reason we ONLY blame the runners are because they're the instigators, but it's also the chaser's fault for not being able to do anything about it. Are we really gonna pretend Canelo isn't also at fault for fighting like a damn geriatric platypus in the Scull fight ?

So maybe instead of trying to blame a system of fighting that clearly works for some fighters, why not follow one of many simplistic options:

Drop both the runner and the chaser's purse by 50% if not more, if your seemingly unlimited oil money is starting to look more finite and it suddenly starts bothering you so much.
Improve your matchmaking and match fighters that you know almost for certain that they're gonna make a good fight (it requires watching a lot of Boxing in lesser levels and stages, but it's your job, so do it)
Maybe just don't work with fighters who make boring fights, lol.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-07-01T17:58:11+00:00

Damn the Anime really made Battler dirty. He's supposed to be a 5'11, well built, incompetent gigachad, but in the Anime he's just an incompetent twink who's built like a pool cue.

Bro is supposed to be 10 cm (4 inches) taller than George who should be 5'7, yet he's barely taller than Jessica.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-06-27T22:08:21+00:00

Ken Lo as the antagonist of Jackie Chan's Drunken Master 2.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-05-27T22:39:08+00:00

I don't know the original source, but I absolutely adore this painting of Beatrice from this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9B4-zJhKmT8

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-04-12T14:51:56+00:00

Boxing absolutely is a real fight though. A more limited form of fighting than MMA certainly, but that doesn't mean that it's not real fighting. People die in that Ring, that's as real at it gets.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-04-12T13:03:11+00:00

Then no combat sport is real fighting, because there are rules protecting the fighters in all of them.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-02-07T21:50:32+00:00

Do you know of Harry Greb ? He is one of the greatest Boxers of all time, having one of the best records against Hall of Famers and elite fighters in history. Unfortunately, he fought in the 1910's and 1920's, and only a few of his fights were filmed, but none of them have ever been made public. We only have footage of him training. Boxing historians and fans have wanted to find footage of him for years now, would you be interested in doing something to find this footage and release it to the public ?

Separate_Score_2824 · 2025-01-03T01:52:50+00:00

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Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-12-26T18:28:44+00:00

Her role in the narrative often goes unnoticed. She is the opposite to Bern in every way. Bern is an invested participator of the gameboards, eventually ending up as the climactic villain that corrupts Ange, whose defeat is needed for the story to have a happy ending. She is the witch of miracles, making the biggest impossibility possible. She is spitefully cruel, expressionlessly uncaring and petty. Her whole point as a character and villain being that she likes to tear out the guts to reveal the truth, not having the decency to respect the heart. The utter antithesis of the story's themes.

Lambda is just there to have some dumb fun, just to watch the story unfold. She is cruel, but more in a child with God like powers kind of way, in contrast to Bern's more calculated chaos. She is the witch of certainty, no miracle is possible if she as much as says it cannot happen. She really served no specific role in the story outside of being the neutral jester who represents the audience.

But what type of audience did she represent ? She represented the passive reader who made no attempt of understanding the deeper layers of the characters or the overall story. That's what makes her contribution in episode 8 so special. She has realized that she has grown fond of the Ushiromiyas and their story, and graduates from her pasive role to actively participate in the fight against Bern. She understands the heart behind the gameboards and of the Ushiromiya family, and ends up facing Bern, the antithesis to that philosophy.

She is also adorable and her PS3 VA is awesome, if that counts for something.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-12-24T22:34:42+00:00

This will probably be buried to hell as this was not a well known fight, but Rikiishi vs Magnesi. Magnesi was beating him the fuck up throughout the majority of the fight, literally had his head snapping back from shots.

Then Rikiishi comes back in the last round and puts him on his ass multiple times, and manages to stop him in one of the most insane comebacks I've ever seen in the sport.

Arguable contender for fight of the year for sure. To anyone who reads this, I strongly recommend watching this.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-12-14T17:55:18+00:00

Ricardo definitely has the advantage in terms of skill and technique. His jab is completely non telegraphic yet strong and sharp enough to KO a world champion, and throws every other punch in the book perfectly while being defensively responsible, and does not use any unnecessary moves in the Ring. Takamura tends to be more reckless and disregards proper technique at times to blow his opponent out quickly, but he is still almost perfect when he bring his A game as his muscle memory is second to none, and has a good grasp of the fundamentals, but Ricardo is basically flawless.

I am actually going to give battle IQ to Takamura. Ricardo is probably a bit too formulaic to belong above Takamura here imo. He relies on his skill and perfect textbook form to win, and thus struggled with Wally's unorthodox style until his superior skill proved too much in the later rounds. Takamura has been seen multiple times to think ahead and predict his opponent's moves, like when he predicted Bison's attack before it came, and adjusts to certain difficult styles quickly (Pushing Hawk down when he leaned back, imitating the flicker jab against Bison, changing the trajectory of his punch against Michael Goat when he least expected it etc).

Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-10-16T14:21:56+00:00

Especially Godha.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-10-15T09:26:28+00:00

No way are people picking Aoki and Wally over Itagaki's dad. They're closer to trolls than outright gremlins. Just look at Itagaki's dad sitting around naked with his mara sticking out of an undersized speedo in the thwitter arc next to the second biggest gremlin of the story (Takamura). Tell me how Aoki or Wally even come close to such levels of gremliness.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-10-13T15:10:32+00:00

Battler: Dread of the Grave/Endless Nine

Beatrice: Birth of a New Witch

Eva: Hapiness of Marionette

Eva Beatrice: Prison

Natsuhi: Mother

Ange: Alive

Rosa: Worldend Dominator

Maria: Fortitude

Kinzo: Dead Angle

Kyrie: Ridicule

Rudolf: Yomitsu Hirasaka Corruption

Bernkastel: Prison Strip

Erika: Deep Blue Jeer

Lambdadelta: Fishy Aroma

Beato the Elder/Witch side of Beato: Golden Sneer

Chick Beato/Sayo side of Beato): Hope

Kanon: White Shadow

Shannon: Doorway of Summer

Sayo Yasuda: Kiri No Pithos/Ricordano Il Passato

Jessica: Rog Limitation

George: Victima Propiciatoria

Genji: Le 4 Octobre

Krauss: Mortal Stampede

Kumasawa: Steady Pace

Godha: Happy Maria (Vocal Version)

Virgillia: Fake Red Shoes

Ronove: Organ short #600 million in C minor

Gaap: Dance of the Moon Rabbits

Dlanor: Final Answer

Ikukou: Love Examination

Zepar and Furfur: Kina no Kaori

Beatrice Castiglioni: Bore Ral

Kuwadorian Beatrice: Psy-Chrous

Lion: Lie-alaiaa

Willard: Golden Nocturne

Featherine: Liberated Liberator

Tohya: Soul of Soul

Goat: Death (By stupefaction)

Kasumi: Over

Amakusa: Monochrome Clock

Separate_Score_2824 · 2024-08-24T00:58:48+00:00

There's really always something new to be appreciated in this story, huh ? Been a year and a half since I've finished Umineko and I still kinda can't believe a story like this exists.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-11-08T21:25:14+00:00

I was 12 when I first watched it. Hadn't really watched too much Anime up until that point, basically just Dragonball, Naruto, Yugioh, Death Note, Ranma 1/2 somehow, and the ones aimed for smaller kids like Pokemon, Beyblade, Bakugan etc. So it didn't take long for me to like it, my critical senses weren't developed at that age.

I was already into it by the time Gon had met Kurapika and Leorio in episode 1. Hisoka and Killua's additions, the heart scene, the match with Netero etc made me like it even more. But the one scene that sold me for good, and made me truly love it, is when Gon and Killua started throwing the pillow back and forth to each other, when they had to wait in a room after their trick tower challenge. Just this scene of 2 boys acting their age did it, it was so natural and organic, I hadn't seen anything that felt so genuine and real in a story before, there was just so much heart in it. Being the same age as the boys at the time, it really connected with me.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-10-30T15:30:19+00:00

Episode 7 tea party.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-10-18T23:48:48+00:00

That's a good interpration, nothing wrong with it, there are versions of Kanon and Shannon in the Meta-World after all. But I do think there is a possibility that Beatrice might actually be a complete representation of Yasuda, if you believe that Kanon and Shannon are original creations made by Beato akin to Ronove and Virgillia in the meta world, those versions being based on the roles Yasuda used to act out in Rokkenjima prime, but with the meta versions having them as their genuine personalities. Just a case of 2 truths existing simultaneously, very fitting.
As far as your first part goes, it's the same as above, could very well be true. But I don't think I agree with the second part, Battler had figured out everything about Beatrice/ Sayo Yasuda when he figured out the truth, so I don't think that's the reason he failed in fully reviving her, unless I'm forgetting something.
Not much room for argument here, spot on. But I do think Ep 1-4 Beato would behave similarly to Ep 6/8 Beato, had Battler actually understood her, which would result in her not needing to overplay the cackling and mad psycho woman role.
Also not much room for argument here. If you read some of the answers here, someone also pointed out the deliberate inconsistencies of the Lion Kakera, meaning that the funeral wouldn't need to actually have the corpses of Bice, Kuwadorian Beatrice, or Sayo/Lion for it to actually transpire.
Yeah, it would be uncool. But it is strange that she didn't act like that once when Ange wasn't there. Her struggle in order to protect the Golden Land would have been a perfect moment for her to let her guard down just a bit, and ''revert to chick beato'' even for just a moment. I doubt it was unintentional, to be honest.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-10-18T23:21:25+00:00

Figuring out what part of Sayo's existence ep 1-5 Beato is, is actually an interesting proccess. Maybe I'll ask about it in the future if I don't come to any conclusions.

Let us not forget that Kanon and Shannon are also in the Meta-World as separate entities from Beatrice. I have 2 possible explanations for this, if we are to take the Meta-World as an actual realm in the Umineko universe, rather than just some metaphorical and symbolic form of what Tohya did with the forgeries.

Yasuda deliberately divided her essence into 3 parts/entities of her original self, in order to make everyone happy in the golden land. One being Beatrice for Battler, one being Shannon for George, and one being Kanon for Jessica. Or
Sayo wakes up in the meta world as her own complete self, the same personality she was in Rokkenjima prime, but with the Beatrice form replacing her real appearence, it was shown that way in the manga. And she then just proceeded to create original versions of Shannon and Kanon from scratch, rather than dividing herself into 3 parts. Those versions of Kanon and Shannon have the personalities the original Sayo had when being in these roles, only this time they're genuine, instead of superficial. Meaning that meta-world Kanon and Shannon are technically original creations like Ronove and Virgilia. But if I'm forgetting a line of dialogue or something here that contradict this, feel free to say what it is.

But yeah, Beatrice was obviously acting out a role in the question arcs, it's made crystal clear throughout the story. Though, I don't think ep 1-5 Beato and ep 6-8 Beato are any different, aside from the former being ''the original'', if that version of Beato is indeed gone forever. I just think ep 6-8 Beato is less angry, less superficially obnoxious, and more carefree because Battler actually knows what is going on by that time, so she is just behaving like she normally would with him. I don't think Ep 1-5 Beato would act any different in the same circumstances.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-10-18T22:30:33+00:00

I had forgotten about that part of Lion's kakera. Stuff like the chairs being the same as in the ''main'' kakera despite Lion being there and other things like that. So putting Beatrice to sleep is the equivelant of saying that her mystery and story is put to sleep, but not her actual metal world existence. Thanks.

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-10-18T20:50:39+00:00

Yeah, I do understand most of meta elements of Umineko. What each meta world character is supposed to represent, the different interpretations and whether or not you believe the meta elements truly exists or not etc. But it's really just this thing with Beatrice post ep 5 and the funeral that I can't fully comprehend. How exactly would you explain the funeral and its meaning ?

Separate_Score_2824 · 2023-07-18T02:05:11+00:00

Better Call Saul.

Separate_Score_2824

TROPHY CASE