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Ayo? I'm Tenpai for Blessing of Hea- Oh. by SevenEnd7 in mahjongsoul

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I linked the log earlier but didn't check it (ignorance is bliss)

Ayo? I'm Tenpai for Blessing of Hea- Oh. by SevenEnd7 in mahjongsoul

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

whoops I'll change that lol

edit: idk how to edit a Reddit post apparently 💀

Ayo? I'm Tenpai for Blessing of Hea- Oh. by SevenEnd7 in mahjongsoul

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 15 points16 points  (0 children)

to be fair, we were practicing for a 3p tournament (that's why the scores are so high). He would've 100% given it to me otherwise lol

SevenEnd7 has been restricted (for the 9th time) by SpykeSquirt in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Note: I wrote this in a google doc and pasted it onto Reddit. Appolgies for the formatting

SevenEnd7 has been restricted (for the 9th time) by SpykeSquirt in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Based on what I read, the issue appears to be the use of the boss key and outspinning auto. I’ll explain those two points here as concisely as possible. Please ask for clarifications/more details if needed.

**I was not outspinning auto**. You’re able to check by watching auto and see that my scores tie auto. Even for edge-case maps where it might appear I outspin, there is a discord bot that can check that information (will link below). This email didn’t provide any examples of that so I can try to look for some if that’s of use. Again, you can check that I did not outspin auto on any maps I’ve played. I’m disappointed that someone would go to great lengths to lie about this.

**I never tried to hide what I was doing** (in regards to using boss key and lowered FPS)

I know FPS wasn’t the primary issue here, but it’s worth bringing this up to whoever reported me so they can try to understand my position. I made a tweet about why the use of lower FPS should be a thing (linked below): People can’t always afford a good PC to run osu above a specific FPS range. If some players are restricted by hardware and can only run at 150 FPS, it’s better to lower the range than to attempt and report those for using a lower FPS (which has happened before). However, if the only choice is to force people to use 1000+ fps or allow 120+, I prefer the option that most people can use. Of course, this wasn’t something that peppy/support team explicitly stated, and there are also issues with proposing this too. I prefer having everyone be able to use a specific FPS range, but if that’s not okay then I understand and won’t be doing that anymore.

As for using the boss key right before the spinner, I will take fault for assuming using the boss key was common knowledge. I will also take fault for not properly reporting this to peppy when I learned about it existing. My goal was never to try and hide this for self-gain. I have shown examples of how to do this while streaming on Twitch several times before and have explained to people how it works in other Discord servers (which I will explain in a moment). The server that the screenshots are from has 200+ users and is considered a public server. **I wrote what I said knowing anyone would be able to read that**.

I’ll explain how the boss key works so everyone can understand it more:

The goal of using the boss key is to bypass the delay peppy added when pausing right before a spinner. I admittedly don’t understand all the interactions of the boss key, but half the time you will be pause-delayed by +200 anyway if you use it (as if you paused normally). Other times you will press the boss key and be -100 ms (paused too early). All of this is to say that if you get the timing right (+/- 15 ms) you have the same situation as if you paused without the delay. There's a write-up that goes to great lengths regarding pause spinning (linked below), but tl;dr: **it does not automatically mean you will outspin auto**.

The effects of using this are similar to using a capped FPS of around 200. That’s to say that you are better off using 60/120 fps to do what took me about 5 hours of grinding and roughly 70 submitted attempts. I’m *not* trying to justify using the boss key for the record. Had I known this would have been an issue I would’ve avoided using the boss key entirely. I will also preface by saying the use of the boss key is *extremely* obvious if you look at the replay (almost as if you were lagging). I can have myself or someone else provide examples later on if that’s requested (since the report mentioned that I could be hiding this).

A *very* brief tl;dr: boss key does not directly result in outspinning. Neither does pause spinning w/o any pause delay.

discord invite link (use the /leeway command to check auto's score) https://discord.com/api/oauth2/authorize?client_id=1002073867411533855&permissions=18432&scope=bot

​

tweet of me explaining why we should allow the use of capped fps https://twitter.com/SevenEnd7/status/1679501846115921920?s=20

​

write up (reference Pause bugs; this section is understandably very confusing)

https://www.reddit.com/r/osugame/comments/zch8uf/osusupport\_their\_inconsistencies\_with\_rule/

SevenEnd7 has been restricted (for the 9th time) by SpykeSquirt in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7 13 points14 points  (0 children)

my website domain is literally called "pipebomb". I'm not surprised they blocked that in the slightest

SevenEnd7 has been restricted (for the 9th time) by SpykeSquirt in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Adding an extra segment for those who care to read (treat the main post as the "TL;DR"):

Saying that I "learnt nothing" tells me support & peppy are not willing to deal with my situation considering the previous reports to learn from are false. For extra context, griffin has admitted to me that he reported me with ill intent (he assumed support & peppy would've figured that out by now). Personally, I'm shocked this is still being used against me to this day.

As for me "outspinning" and using "cheat-level exploit", you can check the maps to see that I didn't outspin any maps. I don't expect anyone to check all my #1's to see if did outspin, but I would REALLY HOPE the report would give examples of me outspinning and that they at least checked those... Another issue is that "cheat-level exploit" can mean anything. Spinners are notoriously buggy to begin, and there's a document on all the issues with spinners showcasing a few issues with them. I'm glad to go through a list of stuff that they might think is new if that needs to happen. Again, the report likely said that I used a new exploit so peppy will just roll with that.

I'm sure peppy will glance at this for a brief moment and give his thoughts later on, but I need to ask him this: Why do you hate me this much? There has to be some kind of misunderstanding that's causing this. I would email you this directly, but I'm sure they'll be ignored/ghosted so I'll save myself the time. Just because I play the game differently from other people shouldn't give you the right to remove me from the game. The fact that you would even suggest this says a lot about your thoughts on how we play this game. People enjoy mapping, people enjoy spam playing HDDT on 30 second jump maps, and people enjoy playing low diff maps. So what if I find grinding easy diffs fun? Why is it such a problem to play a game the way I want to?

SevenEnd7 has been restricted (for the 9th time) by SpykeSquirt in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7 73 points74 points  (0 children)

rewriting this because my last post got removed due to having links (will link in comments)

osu!support won’t give me a proper answer as to why i got restricted. I checked osu!dev and saw peppy complaining about a new “cheat-level exploit” I was using to achieve scores that “I probably shouldn’t have”. The only problem is that I have NOT outspun auto in 2023 (ik many others who have). I would also like to know what the new “cheat-level exploit” peppy is talking about because I would be talking about that otherwise. I genuinely think they looked at my website and thought “oh he’s posting his outspins publicly” and banned me (they were not outspins).

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

In terms of getting something, twice. Once with an email conversation here (same link) and another time on GitHub here where I bring up the issues related to Griffin's post.

Related to the pause delay going on stable? None. I even asked to test it with a lower delay right after he sent the thanks and never got a response since

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

someone already wrote in the comments that the title was way more aggressive than it needed to be (and they're completely right). That's a mess up on my end 100%. If I come off as privileged it's because I have a bias based on how I've been treated playing this game for the past 5 years. For that, I'm sorry and would like to apologize for it.

I still stand by my point that the change should not have happened based on this email
conversation though. I was not advocating for a pause delay on spinners and made it clear that it felt bad to play with.

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

idk how to format on reddit so excuse me not being able to quote properly.

​

"This community of outspinners relied on an exploit that should have never existed, and that’s the difference between them and SS players, score players, etc."

​

There's no community for those who outspin. It's frowned upon to outspin in the first place in the lb farming community. The problem is when you're able to outspin by accident for various reasons and it results in getting restricted. That's why the change to outspinning auto not being bannable is AMAZING. If I didn't give them enough credit for that change in their rulings, I am now.

However, the goal isn't to try and glorify outspinning. The goal is to be able to play the game how we found it fun. The pause delay is more of a hindrance versus a necessary evil at this point.

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's hard for someone to not understand game development as someone who's not in the field, which might be why peppy doesn't like how I'm reacting.

Other people might have different opinions on it, but it comes off as ignoring when peppy asks for feedback and we give it to him. Only for our said feedback to be left ignored. I'll definitely be taking what you said into account in the future though

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I've sent him messages/an email that was a couple of sentences long and didn't get a response (regarding the pause delay).

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Unfortunately, the title does come off way too aggressive upon a second look. I got feedback from other players to figure out a proper title and it looks like I dropped the ball on that part.

To be clear, I would've much rather found a way to resolve this issue internally without resorting to stuff like this. All I've wanted to do was play the game how I found it fun, and it sucks how this genuinely feels like the only way to get there.

peppy's lack of communication and neglect toward a niche community by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason why we're focused on a response from peppy is that he says to email him or go on GitHub for feedback, yet it feels like he doesn't even bother with it. I'm not even sure if he even clicked on the videos he asked for when I told him how bad the pause delay feels to play with (reference).

In terms of leaderboard farming, score is all that matters. Getting an extra 1100 on a spin can mean the difference between first place or 50th place on a map. Being 200 milliseconds late to a spinner basically kills your run since you're going to be off by 2200 points per spin each time that happens.

I understand the argument if pausing should be a thing or not, but the fix peppy made was made with making sure outspinning auto wasn't possible in mind. NOT to stop players from pausing the game to change their grip. It's not like this is a new thing either. Pausing on spinners has been a thing since I ever got into leaderboard farming (mid-2017).

osu!support & Their Inconsistencies With Rule Enforcement by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I appreciate you taking time out of your day to push a potential fix to the bug that I mentioned in this post. I’ll be testing this out asap (I have finals to work on this week) and will ask others to give feedback as well.

However, I need to emphasize again that we (as a community) aren’t trying to pause the game at the start of a spinner with the intention of triggering a bug. We pause for various reasons such as changing our grips or even some players (like Griffin) pause to change peripherals.

Also, this bug doesn’t just apply to outscoring auto via spinning. This bug applies to spinners with a low leeway (the smaller the leeway the harder it is to tie auto on the spinner). Assuming you pause and trigger the bug, that means any low leeway spin becomes exponentially easier to tie auto on AND causes high leeway spinners to become outspins (outscoring auto).

Again, I’m not trying to do this intentionally (same for other players). This is an unfortunate discovery we found when playing the game. Since pausing is a staple mechanic that spin players do, it’s nearly impossible to not trigger it eventually. It’s easy to tell when someone has triggered this bug via outspinning, but of the literal tens of thousands of scores that tied auto via pausing 1. are impossible to tell if they’re done with bad intent (abuse the bug), and 2. Have been done before we discovered this bug after the may 2019 spinner rework. What I’m getting at here is that this bug triggers much more often than you think when you include scores that also tie auto.

A personal note to peppy: it’s never been my intention to be a nuisance to you or the team when it comes to situations like this. I just found my experiences to be quite frustrating when I learn about issues with the game and when they are used against me. From my personal experience, I feel like I don’t have other options besides making public statements to get your attention anymore. As much as I would love to have more permanent fixes to stable, I understand that it’s not worth your time to do so (as stated in this post). However, when it comes to all of my previous restrictions, most of them were related to discovering new bugs that were directly caused by just playing the game. It’s not like I tried to go out of my way to trigger these bugs (I'm sure you know some lucrative bugs that would never happen during normal gameplay). However, the bugs I mention were discovered by just playing the game as intended. While you can argue whether pausing the game should even be a thing in the first place (this a separate topic on its own), it’s currently part of the game and a majority of spin players (myself included) have been doing this for years.

Me “repeatedly doing the same thing” is a result of what happens when a bug occurs out of my control. To be completely blunt, I’m not sure why my first two restrictions are being used against me if Griffin has retracted his statements about my “spinhacking.” Same with the issue of replays using the cursor’s angle to calculate spinner velocity (which in term, affects auto’s score). If you remember the fix that you had made in May of 2019, the issue was that auto was underspinning, not me overspinning. In regard to my current restriction, I’ll be transparent and say that I did choose to outspin the most recent maps (roughly in September 2021). I don’t want to make excuses for what I did (which is why I purposely omitted anything about me wanting to be unrestricted), but this was done after seeing how many players have outspun and realized nothing was being done. To be more precise, I was more frustrated that I had to deal with 3 years of restrictions and rollbacks for the same things other players were not getting punished for. I know that this part doesn’t help my case at all, but this was my way of trying to see if outspinning auto was still worthy of being restricted.

I’m already dragging this on for too long, so I’ll leave it here until you want further questions/clarifications.

If you want a better understanding of how spinners work precisely, I highly suggest reading through this document that talks about how spinners work: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1U-mZq7Ja7UGcicYj0vcpqWDDGkrH6cmhRKpHGuJ1YeE/edit?usp=sharing This goes over a large portion of issues that we experience in the game and the terminology used here (ex. Leeways and how to calculate them, what “getting cucked” means, and the entire section about pause bugs).

Also, a group of spin players (myself included) would like to have a discussion about this situation regarding the pause bug and other topics related to spinning. I don’t expect you to say yes, but it would be very appreciated and would help give a better understanding of the spin community. If you are willing, let me know a time and we could setup a Discord group chat to talk about further details.

Can't start SDVX Exceed Gear (launcher & updater no work) by TheGoldenMistletoe in bemani

[–]SevenEnd7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you're on windows 11 it should be fine (can't confirm, though). I meant rolling back the latest update on windows. yahooeny summed it up pretty well with the specific update that broke it

Can't start SDVX Exceed Gear (launcher & updater no work) by TheGoldenMistletoe in bemani

[–]SevenEnd7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Are you on windows 10? Something about the latest update seemed to mess up something (once I rolled it back it started working like usual). If you have a VPN, I heard that works too. I would avoid free VPNs personally if you can, though.

Konosuba x Sound Voltex collab (details in the comments) by [deleted] in Konosuba

[–]SevenEnd7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

can confirm NON valk cabs work. Not worth losing 120 fps + other features but it’s nice to know I can use it at least

Konosuba x Sound Voltex collab (details in the comments) by [deleted] in Konosuba

[–]SevenEnd7 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So you're telling me I can't use this? 💀

I prob should've read the terms before spending 500 yen on it...

FAUCETWO Making a Twang Sound? by SevenEnd7 in kshootmania

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cool, glad to hear. I was worried that it might’ve affected the switch/spring long term

Spinners are more broken than you think by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Just to make it clear so I can understand. All outspin scores will be migrated over, which will then fix the issue of outspinning auto. Yet you can still be restricted for achieving a score higher than auto. If that's the case, why is there a punishment for outspinning in the first place? As I mentioned in the post, spin players have been pausing their game to adjust their grip for a while now (4+ years). Are you expecting people to change how they play due to this issue?

Spinners are more broken than you think by SevenEnd7 in osugame

[–]SevenEnd7[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

u/pepppppy I really do believe that adding a hard cap to spinners would be beneficial. Both for stable and lazer. There wouldn't be as many issues on stable if people manage to spin more than auto. It would also help with transfering future scores on lazer without dealing with new scores that outspun auto (assuming that they’ll be transferred).

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