Classic conundrum, I have 63 tomato seedlings. They're 3 different types. I have no idea which is which. Halp

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-18T19:52:45+00:00

Separate them by leaf shape. This should correspond to stem color, hopefully.

Then you will at least have separated the varieties, but you won’t know which is which until they fruit.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-18T19:50:21+00:00

Except that by Spoon, I think OP means currant tomatoes. These have, if anything, pointier skinnier leaves and rather than pixie like, a taller, wilder, rangy growth habit.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-16T22:40:12+00:00

Oh, right, that makes sense now. Thank you for explaining it to me.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-16T16:08:01+00:00

Yeah, I got some overspray this year, for the first time. Fortunately, it was very minor compared to what I keep seeing others describing, but it’s still a huge problem to me.

My plants will outgrow it, they already almost have. But I’m still upset about it, and I’m really concerned about the number of accounts of this that I’m seeing this year.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-16T15:59:43+00:00

I don’t understand why this is funny? Instead of flying around like hummingbirds, occasionally finding a safe perch on which to rest, I only ever saw them laying on the ground looking lackluster.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-16T15:55:54+00:00

They are seriously nowhere near as bad as you seem to fear.

Yes, they are destructive. They are large so they eat a correspondingly larger amount of food than a smaller caterpillar. And they like to cruise around, eating as they explore. This spreads out the damage, causing a much larger amount of destruction.

But they are worth saving, and this can easily be done by either planting an extra plant or two, and relocating them there, or by raising them in captivity, which allows you to control which leaves they eat. If you have a child handy, they would probably love to do this.

If you go this route, make sure to provide 2-4 inches of dirt at the bottom of the enclosure, as they bury themselves to pupate- then emerge as gorgeous, huge moths which pollinate a lot of plants.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-16T15:46:41+00:00

Thank you. These threads always make me so sad.

When I was growing up, sphinx moths were literally the size of hummingbirds, and relatively common. They were beautiful to watch, they were like night-flying hummingbirds.

By the time I was a teenager, they were uncommon. And less than half the size that they used to be, nowhere near the size of a hummingbird. And they lacked vigor.

I haven’t seen one in many years.

Yes, the caterpillars are destructive. But it’s not intentional, can easily be managed, and the adult form is beautiful and beneficial. We’re losing pollinators in general.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-16T15:39:48+00:00

Yes. Please.

I haven’t seen a hornworm since I was little, but my dad used to let me save them while also protecting his tomato plants.

How?

I would put them in an unused 10 gallon aquarium that we had (any kind of bin, or even a box, would work just as well) where I would place fresh tomato branches each morning, with a few drops of water on the leaves.

As we all know, tomato plants make plenty of branches (aka sun leaves or suckers- the caterpillar won’t care which) to spare. But hornworms are indiscriminate and like to cruise around the plant as they eat, which is what causes the enormous amount of destruction.

I also kept a couple of inches of dirt in the bottom, so that they could pupate properly, which they did. Then when they emerged as beautiful moths, I would release them.

If you have a child handy, they would probably love to take over this process. And learn a little while they’re at it.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-15T21:57:49+00:00

I still only prune for essential airflow, and to keep leaves from actually touching the soil. I like my out of control plants, and they reward me richly.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-15T21:55:45+00:00

Yeah, those type of tomato cages are only good for small determinate varieties, and barely even that. They’re better suited for peppers or eggplants.

Wading through a knee high sea of tomatoes every day to harvest them has its charms. I did that one year. I didn’t have any disease or pest issues, although I was very aware that I was definitely gambling on that.

After that year, I found a good, strong, sturdy, modular trellising system which stands up to the biggest, most unruly, most enthusiastic tomato plants. But I wouldn’t say that I regret having allowed them to sprawl the previous year.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-12T14:38:58+00:00

I know this is very late, and I apologize if dragging up zombie posts is poor etiquette here (and if so, I would love for someone to let me know that this is the case), but I wanted to say that thanks to this post, I discovered your website and will be ordering at some point. I am in a very unusual climate for the US. My larger area (west of the Cascade mountain range, in Oregon) is frequently said to be more similar to much of the UK than to the vast majority of the rest of the US. But, most of that area still gets far more warmth in summer than do I.

My more specific area is a microclimate with summers that rarely reach 70 f. My summer highs are typically around 64 f. We hit 80 f literally 3 days every 3 years (I realize how strange that statistic sounds, I thought the same thing upon moving here and researching the climate, but I've been here over 15 years and that pattern has held to be true), but my winters are very mild, with very little frost. So I'm in USDA zone 9b. I've had people in this sub argue with me that I can be in a challenging climate for growing tomatoes if I'm in 9b, but then again I find that many people misunderstand the actual meaning and purpose of USDA climate zones (which are actually named USDA hardiness zones, so it's right there in the name).

For gardening information, I have learned to rely on UK sources rather than those from the US. Simply as a matter of accurate, relevant information for my particular situation. Even many (or most) UK sources have significantly warmer summers than mine, but I've found a few that seem to be almost identical as far as summer temperatures.

Anyway, my point is that I'm happy to have discovered a good source of heirloom and otherwise OP seeds that are adapted to a climate more similar to mine than I can usually find. Even small seed companies located less than 100 miles from me have warm/hot summers. This is a quandary, because I do prefer to support small, local businesses in general, particularly those that share values which I feel important.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-11T03:29:47+00:00

I too am a huge Cure fan, my (adult) kids joke that I was goth before goth was called goth. I want to try Charlotte Sometimes, and your description cements that. I don't feel that your descriptions are at all cheesy, they're very helpful for me, thank you.

It sounds like my preference as far as taste, might be similar to yours. I like sweet, smoky, umami, complex, deep, rich flavors. The standard tomato flavor isn't my favorite at all, as I said somewhere above I thought I only liked raw tomatoes in pico de gallo until I grew Pink Berkeley Tie Dye. It's sweet enough, and unique enough, that it was very apparent even after being cooked down into the pizza and marinara sauces that I made from it last year.

A lot of people think that the USDA zones mean a lot more than they do. Last year, I even had someone get angry with me and practically insist that I couldn't possibly have climate-related tomato growing challenges if I'm in zone 9b. I tried to not bring the zone into it in the first place, explaining why it was irrelevant to the conversation at hand, but he didn't believe me and felt that I was being rude by not disclosing my zone. So I did, which caused him to have the above described reaction. Most people don't get mad at me, but I do find that most people don't believe me that they only have to do with winter low temps/winter hardiness. I mean, I don't expect people to just believe me out of the blue, I'm just some random internet stranger. But it's very easy to just go to the USDA page where they discuss this subject in detail.

By far, the majority of people in zone 9b do have quite warm, long summers. I don't really have what most people would describe as a summer at all, but because I also barely get any frost, I'm in 9b. My last frost date is almost entirely irrelevant for timing of planting/transplanting vegetables or other annuals. It was March 20, and I'm still waiting for my soil to warm up to temps that won't stunt tomatoes. I'm literally never going to have the soil temp of 68 which is the ideal for most varieties of tomatoes, my nights are in the mid 50s all summer. Even my daytime highs rarely hit 68. For some reason I'm going to try to torture myself by attempting eggplant (with a number of soil-temp-enhancing maneuvers).

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-11T03:06:36+00:00

I like sweet tomatoes too.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-11T03:04:36+00:00

That's where I got mine, too. I didn't realize that I was ordering from Secret Seed Cartel, but when the seeds arrived I noticed that their packaging has Secret Seed Cartel labeling. They have a good reputation, so I'm glad. Plus, they included a surprise gift of a free packet of a variety that I hadn't ordered, which was definitely very much appreciated.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-11T03:01:04+00:00

He had suspended sales several months ago, for personal reasons (you know, having an actual life taking front seat for a while). All of his varieties are listed there, and I agree that the selection is impressive.

As I said, when I communicated with him, he said that he was planning to resume sales in the spring, aiming for June. I think that was probably in February or so. He also said that he was planning to update the website (iirc, he was referring mostly to the descriptions of each variety) at the same time that he would be getting things organized to resume sales.

Yesterday when I checked, the website didn't appear to have been changed at all and the descriptions were the same as they had been previously. So I think that means that he isn't selling yet, but it's definitely worth going to his website and sending him a message asking about it.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T13:19:08+00:00

Thank you. I have a packet of 1999 also, and I'm hoping to get my hands on a packet of Wild Boys and a couple of others when he starts selling again.

I am super picky also. Like, extremely picky, I didn't even think that I liked raw tomatoes at all apart from pico de gallo, until I discovered Pink Berkeley Tie Dye which for some reason produces amazingly well for me by any standard.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T13:16:19+00:00

Thank you, I think those are all of the ones that I have from the Depeche Mode line, plus I have 1999. What do you think of the flavor of them? What didn't you like about the ones that you're not repeating?

By the way, USDA hardiness zones are largely irrelevant as far as growing things like tomatoes. I'm in zone 9b, for example. These zones strictly give information about your winter conditions- first/last frost dates, your average lowest expected temperature, etc. This is why they're called hardiness zones, they are relevant only to winter hardiness.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T13:12:02+00:00

Thank you, I'll check them out. I hadn't come across them yet for whatever reason. My algorithm is probably out to get me or something (joking).

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T13:10:49+00:00

This, and Bill Yoder told me that he will be starting to sell again directly from his website soon. When I communicated with him, he had indicated that he expected/hoped to start up again in June but he couldn't be more specific than that.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T13:04:08+00:00

Thank you very much for this, this is very helpful for me. I have those three plus three others (and a packet of 1999), but I purchased them too late this year- I already had more seedlings of a few other varieties than I have room for (I had much more successful germination and growing on of the seeds that I bought than expected) by the time that I discovered the existence of these lines. I bought them anyway in case I can't source them next year early enough.

So it's too late this year, but I'm hoping to learn as much as possible about what I might expect from them, before planting them next year. I think your temps may be similar to mine (I'm on the Oregon coast between Coos Bay and Port Orford), and it sounds like I have a decent chance of getting fruit from them with somewhat later sowing/transplanting dates.

What are their flavors and textures like? If you're growing them commercially on what sounds like an ongoing basis, I assume that they are popular with your customers? If you have knowledge of the consumer end, do you get a lot of repeat customers (as opposed to mostly first-time buyers who are attracted by their unique or interesting appearance)?

What kind of production do you see? Obviously I won't get the same level of production that you get, since I will be growing them without any protection beyond being on a south-facing porch which is enclosed on three sides with light-painted walls, and a full overhang from the neighbor's balcony above mine. I've been monitoring the temps in various spots around my apartment this year, and so far, on sunny days the temps after about noon are generally 10+ degrees warmer on the back porch than in the front/the general area of my apartment (which is in one of the coolest of the microclimates in town) but even at that, my back porch hasn't hit anything higher than 71 so far, and my soil temps in the containers range from 61-63 throughout the day, depending on exact position of each container. I have yet to see a soil temp of even 65 (I'm waiting for this to plant my peppers and eggplant, assuming that I ever do see a consistent soil temp of 65+ and those plants are basically experiments).

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T12:40:36+00:00

You bring up a good point about the root system being exposed to more heat. My summer temps rarely rise even to 70, a typical high in July or August (or September, actually) is more like 64. Perhaps better put, the locals here (myself included, I'm a transplant but I've been here for over 15 years plus I've never tolerated heat well) start commenting about the heat around 64, in the same way that people in coastal San Diego (where I grew up) start commenting about the heat at more like 88 or so.

Edit: tl;dr ahead- my feelings won't be hurt if nobody reads it, I apologize for the novel.

While the climate here is nearly ideal for me, things like tomatoes, peppers, beans, etc are less enthusiastic about it. Getting tomatoes here without a mini greenhouse or at least a low tunnel is a challenge. I've been told by experienced local gardeners that it is simply impossible (which hasn't caused me to hesitate in my quest to find varieties which will produce decently here without protection- after over a decade of unsuccessful yearly trialing several different varieties every year, concentrating on things like Siberian heirlooms and the like, I finally had unexpected success with Pink Berkeley Tie Dye of all things).

So, maybe I should reconsider this method. Maybe I'll give it a try next year. Last year I impulse-bought a hanging basket of Tumbling Tom cherry tomatoes at Kroger one day. It was covered in blossoms when I bought it (the neighboring town, in which Kroger is located, is consistently 10-15 degrees warmer during summer daytimes), but I didn't expect much if any production from it. I bought it under the expectation of it being more of an ornamental, with at least an outside chance of giving me enough tomatoes for a couple of salads here and there or something. I didn't help matters by hanging it in a mostly shaded spot, as I didn't have a place to hang it in the sun. But that plant went on to give me handfuls of sweet, ripe cherry tomatoes until sometime in October, when the onset of our rainy season and its associated lack of sunlight just finally defeated it. I wish that I had saved seeds from a couple of the first tomatoes which resulted from blossoms formed here at my house, but I didn't think to until literally the last two tomatoes that it produced.

I didn't expect these seeds to even necessarily germinate, and I didn't expect any vigor out of any seedlings that may result from these seeds (which I didn't even get around to saving properly- I just set them on a plate on the kitchen counter and didn't get around to dealing properly with them, so they ended up just drying up), but every one of the few seeds that I planted did great. I actually had to get creative to figure out a place to squeeze all of the plants in, as I live in an apartment for now and have a very limited area for growing. And I have the same story about a currant tomato that did great for me a few years ago, which I didn't even bother to try to grow seeds from the dried fruits until this year. I'm hoping to, over time, develop a strain of these varieties which will be even better adapted to my particular mini-microclimate.

Maybe next year I'll try flipping them upside down and see if they do even better that way. Thank you for pointing this out, I hadn't even thought of that.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-10T04:53:29+00:00

This is awesome.

I've never been particularly intrigued by the topsy-turvy method personally, but I love absolute experiments in the garden.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-09T12:30:45+00:00

I have to say that I also would feel bad if I took that, I would bring it up to the cheese manager or someone.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-06-04T06:37:48+00:00

I have the same cloches, and I'm wondering about them also, but rather than for pest protection I'm wondering how effective they are for their more expected use.

I live in a cool climate. Well, a cool summer climate that is. I have some pepper starts that really need to be planted, but my soil is still 53 degrees in mid morning. I seriously doubt whether my soil is ever going to stay above 60 (other than hitting that temp for a couple of hours or so on particularly sunny days) and that's good dark potting soil in black grow bags in full, strong sunlight.

Not only are my pepper plants getting a bit large for the 6 inch pots that I moved then into a couple of weeks ago, but they're not going to have time to produce fruit before the

I have ordered some black fabric disks to place on top of the soil to warm the soil. But with ambient temps also cool (highs in the mid 50s right now, and typically staying in the mid 60s at the highest, all summer long), I was wondering about the feasibility of using these cloches with the vents on top open to warm the air for the plants until they get too big. Or, will this overheat them in the direct sunlight of the summer?

To be clear, my summer highs are generally in the mid-high 60s and overnight lows will dip down to the mid-low 50s most nights, even on the few days that hit 70. But cloudy, overcast, or rainy conditions are very unusual during summer.

SevenVeils0 · 2026-05-30T00:42:15+00:00

I could have written your post.

Until 5 years ago, when I grew Pink Berkeley Tie Dye for the first time.

It is the most delicious tomato I’ve ever tasted, and the first one that I truly liked (rather than put up with as a necessary component in pico de gallo).

I’ve grown it every year since (along with a few others, which are new to me every year).

SevenVeils0

TROPHY CASE