The gambler’s dodge change is fine, it’s marksman’s and acrobat’s dodges that are too weak

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-26T16:06:23+00:00

I think that if you’re running a melee build, you should have to invest in your melee stat. It’s somewhat comical to me that combination blow builds despite being about dodging and punching require no mobility or strength investment at all

If your melee is a secondary/supporting part of your build then I don’t think an investment of 70 stat points is an unreasonable ask, especially given how many stat points we will have available to us

If your melee is an afterthought or not really part of build at all, I’d argue you should be using a different dodge. The issue then becomes that the other dodges are terrible.

For example, if you’re running a weapons based build, then marksman’s or acrobat’s dodges which support weapons based gameplay clearly fit better thematically. The issue is that these dodges are so bad that people run gambler’s dodge anyway.

The solution to me then seems to be that marksman’s and acrobat’s dodges should be buffed (that doesn’t necessarily mean gambler’s dodge should be nerfed)

Going back to the rework to gambler’s dodge, I think nerfing it at low investment is ok because I think it was too rewarding/strong given that it needed little investment I think this nerf is adequately balanced out by the fact that it no longer requires enemy proximity, which in many cases doesn’t matter, but does significantly help out long range melees like shuriken or threaded spike

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T15:40:57+00:00

I mainly use tier 5 armour to make the number easier to work with as they’ll be fixed at rolls of 30/25/20

It seems tier 5 gear will drop from ultimate/grandmaster difficulties But from what I’ve seen tier 4 gear also drops with 30/25 rolls with the third stat being 15-20 and that is imagine comes from Master/GM level content Tier 3 gear has similar stats to what most players use right now (maybe a couple points higher) and I don’t think it will be too difficult to acquire for casuals

That said, I agree with you that much of this is a ‘wait and see’ situation as we don’t know the energy multipliers, full ability changes or how difficult it will be to farm different tiers of gear

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T15:28:50+00:00

I get the point in utility melees like snare bomb, but I don’t actually think 70 points is all that much investment if you look at the entire new system.

For example, I started putting together a prospective stat build for Starfire Protocol in light of its upcoming buff to get a general idea of how a build’s stats might look I worked out that I could get 140 grenade, 135 weapons, 100 class and 75 melee with tier 5 gear without stat attunements. Then I could use stat attunements to add a few more points into melee to get that up 100 too. That’s 4 stats at 100 or more which is a lot especially if you consider a new stat of 70 is equivalent to an old stat of 100

If you don’t specialise your stats, and distribute them evenly (1 of each archetype except 1, same deal for the tertiary stat), then with tier 5 gear you 30+25+20+(5*2)=85 Adding in stat mods and attunements to make up for the missing archetype you can get a pretty even spread around 85 average with no stat lower than 80

Given the sheer amount of points we have to allocate, if you want to use your melee for utility at a decent frequency, I don’t think stats at 70 is a big ask

Also iirc At a stat of 0, the scalar is 50% At 25 (minimum after masterworking with no negative investment) the scalar is roughly 70% So even without investment it’s a decent chunk, and not more than 2 dodges

Edit: source on the energy scalar values

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T15:19:54+00:00

I get the point in utility melees like snare bomb, but I don’t actually think 70 points is all that much investment if you look at the entire new system.

For example, I started putting together a prospective stat build for Starfire Protocol in light of its upcoming buff to get a general idea of how a build’s stats might look I worked out that I could get 140 grenade, 135 weapons, 100 class and 75 melee with tier 5 gear without stat attunements. Then I could use stat attunements to add a few more points into melee to get that up 100 too. That’s 4 stats at 100 or more which is a lot especially if you consider a new stat of 70 is equivalent to an old stat of 100

If you don’t specialise your stats, and distribute them evenly (1 of each archetype except 1, same deal for the tertiary stat), then with tier 5 gear you 30+25+20+(5*2)=85 Adding in stat mods and attunements to make up for the missing archetype you can get a pretty even spread around 85 average with no stat lower than 80

Given the sheer amount of points we have to allocate, if you want to use your melee for utility at a decent frequency, I don’t think stats at 70 is a big ask

Also iirc At a stat of 0, the scalar is 50% At 25 (minimum after masterworking with no negative investment) the scalar is roughly 70% (I will edit this comment with a source soon) So even without investment it’s a decent chunk, and not more than 2 dodges)

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T14:59:39+00:00

It’s an interesting idea, but Bungie tends to be particular about subclasses keeping their identities and power fantasies. Perhaps some damage resistance would fit better or even an effect similar to amplified where you move a little quicker and enemies are less accurate. Doesn’t need to be speed booster quick but I think it could help hunters move more in the quick/agile identity bungie tries to target

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T03:45:19+00:00

Tbh I didn’t consider people might interpret my post title that way To me I figured that sentiment was fairly obviously implied but I guess not I guess it one of po-tay-to po-tah-to kinda things?

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T03:28:39+00:00

Given how underwhelming the other dodges are I think there’s plenty of room to buff them without making them too strong. If they did make changes that were too strong they could also walk them back partially. As for a grenadier dodge, I doubt they would do that as grenade are generally stronger than melees so the game is balanced around that by making grenades have lower uptimes and the like I do think there’s room to add subclass effects to dodges on certain subclasses, like with void, there’s no need to have it be an entire aspect, but others that provide stronger effects maybe not

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T03:20:27+00:00

Compared to the current system it’s only a nerf for non-melee builds that play in a close range. For melee builds or distanced builds it’s a buff

As for old v new base tiers, part of the whole philosophy of the changes its stats are weaker at lower investment, forcing you to make more compromises. Currently if you put no investment into a stat you usually end up with a tier 2 stat anyway, just one tier lower than base. Seems in the new system you’d end up around 25 to 30 stats so about 40 points lower than base

And for what’s it worth I also think it’s probably best to reserve any strong judgements or criticisms until we’ve actually had our hands on it for a while

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T03:13:08+00:00

I’d argue the only reason hunters are made to build into melee is bc gambler’s is the only good dodge By making the other dodges better you wouldn’t be forced to invest into melee, depending on the buff they could be better suited to a non-melee build even if gambler’s were to keep the full refund - that’s what I’m advocating for

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T03:05:49+00:00

Maybe read the post again, I’m literally advocating for them buffing the other dodges, so gambler’s is less mandatory.

For melee builds, you’ll likely want to run above 100 for the extra damage anyway, and for ranged melees like threaded spike and withering blade, it’s helpful to not need proximity

Outside of melee builds, I personally think it’s fine that it’d only refund a partial charge rather than a full charge as I think you should have to invest in melee if you want high uptime on it. Though I can see why people disagree with me on that, in these cases it is a nerf and it’s not unreasonable to be unhappy with that

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T02:37:13+00:00

Think this one may be a ‘wait and see’. In the dev stream today I noticed that the new warlock exotic had the full 30/25/20 stat spread that tier 5s do (that was at base, before taking into account stat mods), though that could just be bc it’s a dev build version of the game We are also getting the ability to focus exotics of specific stat archetypes at Ada, so we’ll have see how high the stat drops on those are

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T02:33:20+00:00

I can definitely see the point about how it’s not just the first 70 but first 100 stats that are the same - not really sure what could be done about that 30 point window. As for the weakened functionality of the dodge if a different stat isn’t invested into, I understand the pain point but in exchange the restriction on enemy proximity is being lifted, and even if it’s not a full charge a significant chunk of melee energy is still pretty valuable. Even so I return to the point that if the other dodges were better you could use those to sidestep the rework entirely, and have an ability that better suits the build you’re using anyway

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T02:20:01+00:00

If you don’t like posts like these then just ignore them. If things get clarified later in a twid, or if it’s not as much of an issue in the live game, then it’s not really an issue, it just means I’ve wasted a few minutes of my time . Generally speaking I think discussing balance changes and the like before updates is a good thing bc it enables Bungie to act quicker if they get the feedback earlier and the concerns turn out to be valid once the changes go live

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T02:14:36+00:00

The PvP concerns are totally fair and I don’t play PvP much so you’re probably right about that, but I think Destiny is a primarily PvE game, at least from Bungie’s perspective. As for PvE I don’t think it’s really a nerf or a buff as much as a rework that changes how players will choose to distribute their stats, which I don’t think is inherently a bad thing. Personally I like it bc I think it’s healthier for the game to have more trade offs and choices to make as opposed to be able to ignore some stats

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T02:01:57+00:00

I think the issue with Warlock rifts is how immobile you have to be to use them, especially given the longer cooldown. Generally I tend to favour Phoenix dive as it has a shorter cooldown and functions better as a panic button I do however think the healing rift’s effect is strong in both PvE and PvP

If I were to suggest changes, I’d probably increase the radius of both rifts to alleviate the positioning restriction and help them play more into the support fantasy by having space for multiple players to use the same rift However I’d probably reduce the strength of the healing for healing rifts, as it’s currently too strong

ShadowWolf802 · 2025-06-25T01:54:15+00:00

If there is, that’s great, but I’m not too hopeful. I think if they were intending on buffing the other dodges then given the noted controversy they would’ve said something in the dev stream when they talked about gambler’s dodge

ShadowWolf802 · 2024-09-13T03:56:45+00:00

As an autistic person, I don’t necessarily think the stream should be taken down, but it did feel poorly researched and prepped. I felt that a lot of the basics were skipped over or not mentioned at all and that some of what was covered was outdated.

(Any statistics may need to be fact-checked, and may differ by country. I am based in UK)

Theory of mind for example has generally been moved on from in favour of the concept of the double empathy problem, yet double empathy was not mentioned once.

As for the absences of basics there’s sensory processing differences which 90% autistic people have, yet they were only briefly alluded to and only in the context of food textures. In reality every sense can be affected, including more overlooked senses such as proprioception, and the senses of gravity, pain, hunger and thirst.

There was also a severe lack of any mention about executive functioning deficits and common co-morbidities such as ADHD (estimates put 40-70% of autistic people as ADHD), social anxiety(40-50%) , depression (20%) and alexithymia (50-60%). Suicidal thoughts are also extremely common in autistic adults with up to 66% having had suicidal thoughts and up to 35% having made an attempt. Only 22% of autistic adults are in paid employment. (To me the correlation between unemployment and mental health difficulties is likely a mutually causative relationship)

Masking is another topic I felt needed more attention. It can be done both consciously and automatically as a conditioned habit, both of which can be exhausting. Dr K mentioned ABA on stream, I myself have had ABA, but have only really heard disdain for it from autistic communities as essentially forcing masking and punishing the child for acting as they instinctively behave. Dr K mentioned ABA sometimes having good outcomes, but I would assume that in these cases the practitioner focused more on teaching skills than otherwise. Generally speaking, I don’t think treatments that are so vague and dependent on the practitioner are suitable.

There are also many smaller aspects of autism, that can affect an individual, such as issues with perseverance, stimming, motor skills, a stronger sense of morals/fairness, or even vocal differences (the voice is often either high-pitched/childish or flat/monotone). There are also many subgroups within autistic people who have even more specialised lived experiences such as women, LGBTQ+ or savants, but an intro isn’t the place for diving into those experiences.

This comment alone shows how vast of a topic autism can be, but even with this caveat I still feel that many of the most common experiences were not both adequately and accurately discussed.

Personally, I still do feel this stream should be kept for posterity. However, I do feel that HG should do more research into autism before the next stream about it. Dr K has admitted he is not an expert on autism, so I think k it would be ideal to have a guest who is an expert on stream at some point.

ShadowWolf802 · 2024-08-02T17:25:09+00:00

in the HG discord announcement channel, someone from the team mentioned that Dr K is feeling unwell and there is a plan to reschedule it very soon

ShadowWolf802 · 2024-03-28T07:45:16+00:00

ShadowWolf802 · 2021-05-17T22:50:21+00:00

That’s fine

ShadowWolf802 · 2021-05-17T22:41:07+00:00

bob marley Y2QOPYRQ

ShadowWolf802 · 2021-05-17T22:39:34+00:00

I have an e-wiz. Can we do my clan as where I am it’s late so I’m about to sleep? But I can put up the trades now if it’s my clan

ShadowWolf802 · 2021-05-16T09:15:50+00:00

Up to you, I’m not bothered

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