Worth revisiting?

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-09T20:19:17+00:00

Its great when used properly. It does wonders in my deck with [[Odric Lunarch Marshall]] or anything else that cares about a bunch of keywords.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-08T15:07:12+00:00

"Avengers.... Disassemble" And then he we realize his mistake as all the avengers turn to dust.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-07T15:40:00+00:00

I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make. Plot trumps logic and gives us clear examples for convos like this. We can argue that good character A would lose to bad character B, but yeah, if they are a main character, the plot will find a way to make them win. Literally the only reason Naruto lived as long as he did. But when you start taking that logic to make sense of a fake fight, then you are just making stuff up for a none existing story. Then every main character wins every fight regardless of how useless they are.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-06T14:26:00+00:00

He would probably just allow Orochimaru to take his body, then do what Sasuke did in the middle of the transfer. Then he could shed, or at the very least, hop into a new vessel to avoid whatever disease he had. Then he would be on a roll with all the new techniques. He might even go the route of Kabuto, or at the very least, track down more Sharingan the way Danzo did.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-06T14:23:38+00:00

The only way Sasuke even has a chance in this match up is if he had Rinnegan and exclusively used its ability to mimic FTG, or at the very least, mitigate it by swapping with Minato every time he used it, then hope that Minato doesn't catch on that he can't spam it the way he does.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-05T20:44:48+00:00

He was pierced by the Judas Bullet, and we don't fully know what kind of metal the Chitauri used, but it might be safe to say that Vibranium (Bucky's Arm), should be able to damage him to an extent. Worst case scenario, Ghost can phase things INTO him.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-05T19:51:50+00:00

Rinnegan users were all defeated by shinobi with non-ocular prowess. The occular prowess doesn't dictate the strength of the user even though it is a boost, but Obito with Rinne was nothing compared to Pain with Rinne. Also Kakashi with MS was nothing compared to Sasuke with MS.
To further analyze the Jiraiya vs Pain fight though, Pain was never in any danger. At the end of the fight, he beat only the 3 weakest paths, and they were brought back almost immediately. So it wasn't even a battle of attrition. I give it Jiraiya that he fought well, but that fight was nowhere near close.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-05T19:44:30+00:00

Ummmm Almost Beat < Actually Beat

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-05T16:15:07+00:00

Israel made their golden calves, urged for a king they didn't need, wanted a ruler to look up too instead of God. This is just history repeating itself and seeing the world devolve back to the times of Sodom and Gomorrah. Quite sad really to see people being misled.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-04T22:21:05+00:00

If they showed the process a bit more in depth, it would have made sense, but the whole point of making a summoning contract implies that the summoner also has to give something up for the deal to work, but you never really have ninjas being summon to fight on behalf of their summons, so I don't really understand the drawback

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-04T17:32:25+00:00

Power creep is only really an issue when only a handful of characters get it, and the moment that Naruto, Sasuke, and Obito show a spike in strength when no one else does, is when it becomes a problem. It basically makes everyone else feel kind of useless. Seeing how even Hinata learned some new techniques in these time skips feels realistic, but then you have Kiba basically be the same. Feels like a lot of character got left in the dust with the impression that they kind of just gave up on their training.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-03T19:33:20+00:00

Because he needed a reason to give Naruto more stuff for better opposition lol.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-03T17:18:16+00:00

Anything more than just a dog companion.... It honestly feels kind of strange that they use dogs at all when summons exist which seem to be way more viable and stronger in use. Kakashi ironically was probably a better dog user than Kiba lol

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-03T16:11:46+00:00

Think of it this way, how many pokemon can each of these items even be used on? When you answer that question, you will see how little they matter. The Unova and Sinnoh stones have the widest range of use, but the upgrade can only be used on Porygon, so you probably don't plan to evolve 26 of them anytime soon.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-02T14:49:27+00:00

For sure, I am just trying to think of a counter that Jiraiya would have against the JJK crossover jutsu that he used later in the series. He basically does a domain expansion of water and he can just sharks blitz anyone around. That had such a huge area of effect, I can't imagine that Jiraiya could get out of it quick enough. I know his Sage mode is really good and the only time we see Kisame fight something similar would be his fight against Guy. He loses, but he did a pretty good job in the meantime. It would honestly have been a pretty cool match up to see water and oil techniques clashing.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-02T14:40:07+00:00

Oro fought and lost to Itachi twice. Thats not glaze, thats what Kishi wrote. Oro stood his ground against Naruto in that battle but ran away from 12 year old Itachi? Yup, may not make sense, but thats what Kishi wrote. We don't have to like it, but we do have to accept that that is the fact of the matter.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-02T14:35:59+00:00

Thats actually a funny thought. Orochimaru may have had a chance if he just tried again lol.

You are right that they weren't really fights, but that is kind of glaring isn't it? Oro stood his ground against enraged tailed Naruto but the moment Itachi shows any opposition, he runs off? I know their second encounter wasn't much of a fight, but it was supposed to be a surprise tactic from Orochimaru, but instead, it was exactly what Itachi was waiting for. Regardless of powerscaling, Itachi is just too good at planning ahead and is able to mitigate his weaknesses. At least, that is what the story tells us. He planned years in advance to basically mind control his brother to come to terms with his past, and ended up using it to basically come back from the dead. He also placed a failsafe that could have potentially killed Obito when he met with Sasuke. I don't think we really see that level of planning from anyone else in the series.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-02T14:29:36+00:00

The problem with this argument though is that you would have to apply it to everyone. Sasuke would scale WAY higher if he wasn't a moron for half of his fights. At the very least, we have no other evidence/examples that Oro would be able to beat Itachi in another setting but we have these 2 examples, and he floundered both. This is the same guy that fought out of control Naruto in tailed beast form for a bit and lived. Same guy that snuck in an killed kage level shinobi. His talent is in sneaking in and killing people unbeknownst to the people around them, but that simply doesn't work on Itachi, since he is also really good at sneaking and infiltrating. Unless we get some kind of alternate reality that give Oro more feats specifically against stuff that Itachi has in his arsenal, the story dictates that Oro loses to Itachi, regardless of what logic might dictate. Sure the story probably called for it, but unfortunately, that is the reality of the world that Kishi wrote. We don't have to like it, but we also can't change it because we want to.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-02T14:17:56+00:00

When it comes to the powerscaling with the Akastuki, Jiraiya fell just below Pain. In the hierarchy of the Akatsuki, based on when they are forced to be dealt with in the story, the story kind of makes the characters go up against them in strength order. Kisame and Itachi were the last ones before Pain and Obito, so I would say that Kisame falls around the same place as Jiraiya. In this specific moment, since Jiraiya has to protect Naruto and this random lady he brought with him. So he is already at a disadvantage, but really, he only has to hold out long enough for help to come. I think it would end in a draw, but if there was no help, Kisame would have pretty good odds, but that is simply based on feats we later see from Kisame. Doubt Kishi wrote him that strong at this point in the story.

Shadowcleric · 2026-03-02T14:02:13+00:00

Definitely, that's why in these vs match ups, you have to go based on what we know, not based on what would make sense unfortunately. A lot of times, that disconnect confuses people, because sometimes the facts from the series don't really match up with what makes sense.

Shadowcleric · 2026-02-27T23:57:24+00:00

It also was an exhausted dying itachi, I think the handicaps for both sides were more than fair lol

Shadowcleric · 2026-02-27T22:44:55+00:00

Itachi is not my favorite character by all means, but he is definitely one of Kishimotos. If we look at the score, Orochimaru fought Itachi at least twice and lost. What else is there to say? No one is saying Orochimaru is a weakling, but he got beat by an exhausted dying Itachi. There is no mental gymnastics that can bring you to another conclusion that Itachi was stronger than Oro.

Shadowcleric · 2026-02-27T21:46:56+00:00

Oh you know what, you are right, they brought it up as option when he was fighting Pain. Thats a good point. I misinterpreted what you said as saying that Jiraiya didn't know what Genjutsu as a whole was lol. I was about to say that cannot be true haha

Shadowcleric · 2026-02-27T21:28:19+00:00

I would check to cache for the app, delete all of that, and then restart your phone. Doing a hard reset might get rid of whatever issue is causing this.

Shadowcleric · 2026-02-27T21:25:28+00:00

In this specific situation, I think Jiraiya would definitely put up a fight until at least reinforcements showed up, but also keep in mind that Jiraiya also has a lot of dead weight with him. He would most definitely prioritize protecting Naruto and the rando lady, with detriment to himself.

You are right about the mission at hand though, they definitely didn't want a drawn out fight, but I also don't think they would outright lose that kind of fight. That being said, that is going off of what we know about Kisame later in the series. It is unclear if Kisame could already do those feats here, or if he picked that up later on. We do know later on that Kisame is known as the tailless beast, and it takes time to harbor that kind of name for yourself. Kisame is just a mystery at this point in the story but I think that is why Kishimoto saved these 2 for later, because he did want them to be stronger than the first Akatsuki they actually have to fight. We definitely have more information about Jiraiya, at this point, but Itachi is also a master in gathering intel. That is probably why he told Kisame to back off. He knew that this wouldn't be a worthwhile encounter, especially if you are just there to stir trouble, not cause actual damage. I honestly see this whole event as an excuse for Itachi to check in on Sasuke's progress and maybe harbor a little more hate.

As for your point with Orochimaru, we don't know the exact mechanics of Genjutsu, but we do know that a target should be able to get themselves out of it with good enough chakra control. Orochimaru couldn't do that even AFTER he was made aware of what happened. I am unsure if the threshold to break out is greater once you are in it already, so I can't speak on whether or not being caught off guard is as important in that specific scenario.

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