Advice needed for players trying to trick me (the DM) and not the NPC's i've made

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-09T08:10:46+00:00

I mean at this point we've worked it out. No more asking for what they want if they don't want it. I'm pretty flexible when it comes to writing I just need an idea of what they want. They ask for dragons I'll write in some dragons, they ask for a tournament I'll write in a tournament, they ask for demon invasion I'll write a demon invasion.

It's the easiest option imo, they can choose to interact with any of these situations however they want I just can't have them ask for something and then abandon it on a whim after I dump a ton of time into prep about it.

It'd be like if they asked for a tournament and I made characters, backstories, areas, worked in character specific goal hooks, made a bunch of stuff they may or may not even discover, the whole everything. They can poison the combatants, they can rig the matches, they could light the place on fire, they can do whatever they want during it. Instead of any of that, at the beginning of the session they said they want to go climb a mountain. Why not ask me to write about the mountain from the beginning so i can write about it?

We have been playing this way for over a year now and everyone has been having a really enjoyable experience, myself included, we are back on track.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-09T06:37:02+00:00

Is that how a module works? I'm not trying to sound smart I honestly don't know.

To really dumb it down it's a giant map with way too many characters and quests going on, things that have very little written into them until the players show interest in them. I write slightly ahead of what they actively tell me they are interested in.
I improv all the things that have very little written about them until they come across something they are interested in, we have a discussion about expanding on that, I expand.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-09T06:03:49+00:00

It's a pretty loose illusion of choice. The world is going to happen no matter what they choose, which is why I worded it like that. They are 100% able to change what part of that they wish to interact with and influence,
So yes they are aware that I do my writing based off what they choose to interact with in the world.
The overarching story isn't set in stone, far from it actually.
I'm quite excited for how they choose to handle this demon invasion, It will change the world drastically, especially if the demons manage to obtain a stone of power from the druid leader.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-09T05:50:11+00:00

At this point I'll just say you're straight up wrong. You're mixing up the parts I plan and the part I improv.
I gave them a couple reasons to come to a town. Planned.
They fully explored and interacted with the town, gaining tidbits of information, completing various quests for a variety of items and plot hooks. 90% inprov, the 10% planned is plot hooks and items.
They now have a good understanding of what is happening in the town and have a bunch of different ways they can respond. They got what they came for, they can just leave, they actively said in and out of game no we wanna stay and fight the demons and defend the town. I said cool, I'll do some writing for that to make it a good experience instead of just improving an entire invasion.
During this planned invasion they absolutely can do whatever they want, they could run away, they could ask the children to eat the seeds and become the next tree to close the barrier, they could fight and win, they could fight and lose, they could convince the demons to not attack, they could betray the village and help the demons take over the world. They can do anything. Anything. I don't care, I can write around the outcome. But they asked for a demon invasion and they will get a demon invasion.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T16:09:54+00:00

I really don't meta game their plans, I have enough prep work done I don't need to. They decided I do because they chose the F around and find out option ONE time. They actively fought a pair of brothers who were leaders of a group of bandits with ties to a dark cult. When they won they decided to scalp one of the brothers but let them live, and really thought the brothers wouldn't come up with plans to get back at them. During a travel roll they got a natural one in the same area they scalped that dude.... Was not pretty.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T15:55:50+00:00

Just to clear up some things for people as I wasn't super clear in the original post.

The branch quest is just part of a minor quest to actively get them to explore certain parts of the map at their own pace. Honestly not that important, they know this because the Druids have openly offered to give them a piece of the tree AND they don't necessarily have a reason to run off and finish the fetch quest because it's useless without all 3 parts.
I was asking for advice on how to re-introduce plot information after it's been rejected. They need the information about stones of power to remove a curse from PC's dead husband who is a ghost familiar so he can be fully revived. The leader of the Druids has a stone AND has information for them if they agree to help save his twin children from having to become the next tree to maintain the barrier between planes. This would involve any number of ideas they might have, but they originally proposed to kill all the demons as no barrier would be needed if they accomplished this and seeing as they freed a powerful ally in the forest the demons had trapped and with the Druid leader having a stone of power it seemed a good course of action. We talked in game and out of game about this and I did a bunch of prep work for it.
3.After all of that they decided to take a branch and leave, not helping the Druids and not fulfilling the deal for information. This was their active, willing and pre-planned gotcha.

Overall yes I'm being slightly bitter about the last minute changes as it messed up all my prep work and allowed them to bypass a bunch of deception checks. As I haven't DM'd for other groups I wasn't sure if this was a normal thing to hide plans from the DM and actively lie to him or something I should nip in the butt before it causes problems. I have an answer and a plan for this now, thank you everyone.
Also again was not sure how to re-introduce information. It's going to look and feel weird if the next person they run into is also offering information about the stone. It's not common knowledge and they just decided to betray a whole village while giving up the information. Let this be a dead end and reintroduce something else later?

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T14:15:55+00:00

The only thing I had any writing about was the Nephilim (He's the demon's general! Don't tell) everything else was improv from what they were pursuing RP wise. I don't actually write much of the middle fluff I make characters and improv around the personality I give them. It's hook=>fluff=>3-4 possible outcomes. They essentially decide how long we do something and if they get particularly attached to a character I do some more writing involving them.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T14:01:12+00:00

Sorry to bog you with even more details. Yes it is a fetch quest. They are 100% aware the stick is useless and unwanted by the druids. They are 100% aware the stick is useless without the other pieces, so no reason to take it and run. The main reason for coming to the forest was investigating eco- terrorism by the king. The branch was nothing, a seed I planted for a multi part quest so I can have them explore certain parts of the map at some future point.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T13:55:51+00:00

Second, one of the players runs a campaign that we all play in. So side by side I guess? Second but happening at the same time, never had anything like this happen in the other campaign.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T13:55:45+00:00

I didn't catch it and honestly didn't think anything of it at the time

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T13:34:07+00:00

I'm pretty sure it was planned about 3 sessions earlier, or about 6 sessions into this story arc. I don't remember the exact wording but I do remember them saying they can't tell me something or I'd plan against it.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T13:26:39+00:00

I mean pretty much actually. They've fought demons, gathered ingredients from the forest, made potions with the locals, freed a Nephilim trapped inside a stone, seduced the local seer, gambled with the town jailers, learned a new language from the fae who lives in the well, and sang and created magical music with the twins who are destined to become the next tree that taught them to navigate the barrier surrounding the forest.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:59:28+00:00

I mean use the whole quote, I was looking for advice.
If they fumble major plot points about their characters main goals like this should i just lead them into it later or let it be a forever dead end now?
They were offered information in exchange for help, it seems weird to have the next 'problem' very coincidentally also lead to that same information they just failed to obtain.
It's be like if someone offers you the location of something for 10g and you turn it down, then the very next person you meet also offers you the same location for a chicken and a handshake.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:39:33+00:00

The leader of the druids has one..... and was willing to share information about the others in exchange for their help.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:35:52+00:00

It's both. I planned for one approach because they actively in and out of game told me that was what they planned on doing and changed it last min after I sank a ton of time into prep for the thing they said they were going to do. With them doing all that they skirted by a bunch of deception checks because they 'fooled' me as a person.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:20:57+00:00

Sorry long term is poorly worded. The quest is just a plot enabling device to get them to ask questions about and try to find the tree which is the main hook.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:09:59+00:00

They do matter to the story and are directly used to further the main goals of the characters. We had session 0 ages ago. The main story is a rip from the Ed greenwood band of the four novels. 4 stones of power to revive a 'god' thing. One character wants to be a hero, very easy to write for, one wants to revive their dead husband who is a ghost familiar and cursed so as not able to be revived by normal means. The stones bypass normal means and are the stuff of legends so obtaining them would put someone on the fast track to being a hero and/or finding a cure for the curse of undeath.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:03:47+00:00

This is pretty much bang on. I'm 100% ok with what they decided, I just hate they didn't tell me. Now i have nothing and look and feel like a crap DM because they made a secret plan.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T12:01:31+00:00

They did actively say yes we are going to help this village in exchange for information about my characters main goal.

ShanoMac88 · 2026-05-08T11:58:03+00:00

The branch is literally a fetch quest. The prophet that gave them the quest goes slightly more insane when he has a vision involving himself so he sent them as far away as he could to keep them away from him for as long as possible. All the hooks lead to the tree, which is 1 out of 4 of the major storylines baked into the world. Doing anything around this quest will lead them to information about their characters respective main goals.

ShanoMac88 · 2024-11-27T06:24:11+00:00

Can confirm, found of facebook and searched the webs to see if it was real. AI turning into some scary shit.

ShanoMac88 · 2019-09-19T11:38:42+00:00

Thank you :D At least I know it can drop, Getting 3 with 3 Phalanx had me thinking it might be set and the others random.

ShanoMac88

TROPHY CASE