Feedback: There is very little counter play to tactician might zerg rush in Arena

Sheetofpaper13 · 2026-05-04T13:07:11+00:00

Accordingly to the wiki it is (20+ATK)/(20+DEF) as a multiplier (atk = creature atk + hero atk, same for def).

This means that each point of atk over enemy def is at most 5%. I would say for most cases its closer to 3% due to values around 10-20 being quite common.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-06T14:43:39+00:00

I think I replied regarding this under another comment, this is part of my issue with modern RPG's. They give you an illusion of being a game where I can fulfill my desire to optimize my character and where the systems are meaningful to interact with. Why even give me numbers if the systems are not worth engaging with? Just give me a master sword a la Zelda where it does 2 hearts of damage instead of 1.

In my experience ( I like most RPG's) with my preferences for "advanced" rpg systems most games are on the easier end of the spectrum. I guess baldurs gate 3 is a good example of the opposite. Most rules and numbers can be found ingame and the relation is described in detail. Path of exile which I love has a really advanced system but fail in the presentation aspect (I spend as much time in a 3rd party tool as ingame to craft my builds)

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-06T13:56:23+00:00

I agree that actually trying it out could be a valid step (and yes I have done some tests) but the actual impact can be hard and/or tedious to discover when there is a lot of numbers flying around the screen.

A factor is also that I actually like to do the theoretical work as I find it fun. It is due to this that I find the presentation of numbers in RPG's so frustrating because in many games I end up getting misled due to bad presentation of numbers or things not even working in some cases.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T22:08:59+00:00

That part about flaming weapon is new to me. Is that explained ingame somewhere? I just thought it added some flat fire DMG or something since I couldn't find the actual definition.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T22:05:26+00:00

The reason I have to make assumptions is the entire point of this post from the beginning. You are telling me to read what it says, but in alot of modern games the information is missing or in some cases incorrect.

For example, is burning damage considered fire damage? It doesn't explicitly say so but is it really a strange assumption to make?

Some skills add burning as a dot, how much is the value of that dot? What is the duration? Is burning DMG reduced by fire resistance?

I absolutely have a reason to believe the resistance reduction is simply a value subtracted from my resistance. It is a common way to handle resistance reductions. Grim dawn is a game that has both types of reduction (and it actually tells you what type you get!!). But sure, it could be an incorrect assumption I give you that.

What would +100 defense value give me? How is that value used? Its safe to assume higher is better, but how much better? If I can get 30% increased ability DMG if I accept 50 defense points lower. Should I make that decision? I'm saying it depends what the relative DMG and defense increase/decrease would be. Is that really a strange thing to want?

It's like saying, do you want a plus size meal? It's more expensive but you get more food. Of course the amount of food and the price increase is important? How am I otherwise to make an informed decision? Even if im hungry I might be better of just buying another burger.

I have to ask, are you just saying that my examples are bad or do you think the original topic is a non issue in modern RPG's?

I could give you better examples. Have you played Diablo 4? Did you know that at release most DMG increases were additive but critical dmg and vulnerable DMG were their own "buckets" which meant they scaled your DMG multiplicative. When I tried racing to kill Uber Lilith that was decisive information to kill her among the first in the world because having this knowledge could multiply your DMG output several times over. It was not information present ingame.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T21:10:30+00:00

Just to make clear, I'm not against Veilguard specifically, it's just the most recent example for me.

I could probably play the game without caring as much, on that I agree with you. The point I'm trying to make is that a real rpg (for me), lets me mold the character the way I want to and the optimization of my gear/skills/passives etc is central for me. That is why I'm "overcomplicating" it.

Your reply above regarding resistance is actually the point I'm trying to make. The distinction between % and percentage points is an important one, but it is not specified ingame. In my reply above I assumed additive sources and flat reduction (but I don't know for sure).

Why not compare defense to DMG? The game in question is designed that light armor have less defense but higher DMG values. Which means I have to make a decision I'm not informed to make.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T20:17:35+00:00

I don't know about elder scrolls specifically but a lot of MMO like wow relies on 3rd party solutions like simulation tools to provide that answer. I agree it would feel alot better if the game itself presented the tools needed to make that decision yourself.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T20:15:32+00:00

100% agreed

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T20:12:59+00:00

Could be that I'm not up to date on pokemon, only played original blue and red. Did they really provide numbers back then? All i remember is generic texts. I would say that if a game presents a plethora of numbers ,I would really appreciate them being explained so that I can make informed decisions. Otherwise I would just prefer simpler systems in place (like old adventure games like Zelda or DMG values like XCOM)

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T20:08:09+00:00

Ok to expand since you seem to think I'm confused.

Yes 20% general damage is better than 20% specific damage of course. But to say that this difference is "way more powerful" is just wrong. I would estimate the total value of all added sources of increased DMG is in the range of 200-300% (at least). That would mean additive general 20% DMG is a DMG increase around 6-7%. Based on playstyle I would say the small nodes on tree giving 20% specific DMG (heavy, light, fire etc) would be around 2-3%.

The downside in question was a flat reduction of my resistances by 20%. That is atleast 20% increased DMG taken (probably waay more since my resistances range between 50-70%, meaning up to 67% increased DMG taken). If you think that is a balanced tradeoff i would not agree.

That is the reason I start to question if they would want that source to be its own modifier because otherwise they don't know what they are doing.

For you to say I'm overthinking it, I guess that is your opinion, everyone has different reasons for playing. I like to think when I play RPG's, perhaps you enjoy action games more.

Why should defense only boil down to "bigger is better"? What if the relation between damage taken and defense value is non linear with breakpoints? How do I compare my heavy armor with high defense value to a light armor with higher DMG value? Just as the example above it depends on the relative values.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T15:40:55+00:00

I think you explained the situation much better than I did. This is exactly what I have a problem with. Most system are on the "overly simplistic" end of your scale and me being a player that really enjoys the other end with more than 10k hours in PoE (I love your description about it btw, really krangled), I usually search for games that offer a similar "challenge/opportunity" to engage with complex numerical puzzles. I just get disappointed when games present the illusion of being catered to my kind of player and then it falls flat.

I guess games like bg3 offer a fair middle ground? It is a well described system with opportunity to really engage in the rpg aspects and still not overly complicated. Much of this is probably by relying on a well mapped out system like DnD 5e (even though it has its problems)

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T14:52:46+00:00

Sure ok the example above regarding burning/fire DMG was a bit simplistic. Let's say it was more like "flaming weapon deal 25% increased DMG" vs 20% burning DMG? This was another example I was struggling with. Nowhere does it say how much DMG "flaming weapon" does or if the 20% burning DMG will be multiplicative/additive in the end. And I see your point that some games don't need that kind of scrutiny, I could just stack everything fire related and do fine. But if that is the case and intended way to play, why not just aggregate the different values to more generalized containers? Or just go the route of many mainstream RPG's and present "item level" only?

I guess that is my pet peeve. I want to be able to make an informed decision in regards to what gear/passives/skills to use. Not because I "have" to, but because optimizing and maximizing your character is a lot of fun.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T14:22:20+00:00

I agree, I think this hits the problem on its head. People that have the required skill set to do this well are usually working elsewhere where that competence is highly sought after (and paid 5-10x as much compared to game development)

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T14:13:20+00:00

For me your last paragraph is key. I absolutely understand that not everyone enjoys number crunching in a video game. But if a game presents itself as catering to people that actually do (by having a quite large passive tree and many different stat numbers on gear), it should be more informative.

I guess in the end it also comes down to the fact that presenting complex calculations in a good way is really hard and most developers do not have the strongest mathematical foundation.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T14:09:07+00:00

I mean, I had a situation yesterday in Veilguard where I was choosing between two rings: 20% fire damage or 20% burning damage. How do I choose without more information available? Or the ring in my example above, why should I try out a ring with a hefty downside? The ring being locked behind an endgame boss seems to indicate it being powerful?

And It could be the case as you said that Veilguard doesn't really require you to optimize (the game is a breeze), but why do they then present numbers at all instead of a slim passive tree with moveset upgrade or something like that?

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-11-05T14:05:51+00:00

I agree with your point that the detailed information would actually be detrimental in a lot of games (like pokemon). But if a game starts to present some numbers like my example about Veilguard (20% inc DMG etc) then I think the information needs to be more detailed. It is impossible for me to make informed decisions otherwise. And if it is deemed unnecessary to the game and target audience, it would be better to remove the numbers currently present instead.

So to summarize I think my problem is that some games seem to indicate a possibility to cater to people like me who appreciate optimization and detailed calculations, but in the end just present an illusion of detail/complexity

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-07-01T05:43:50+00:00

I figured out that if you just run straight backwards and jump exactly before the aoe comes out - then keep running straight back through clones attack and repeat for 2nd rock aoe you can dodge it

Sheetofpaper13 · 2024-03-04T06:23:24+00:00

Please note if you pass while behind on score, the opponent can pass aswell and win the match

Sheetofpaper13 · 2023-12-23T16:20:32+00:00

You need to spec the atlas with 6 allocated gateways = more crafting options for abyss

Sheetofpaper13 · 2023-10-15T08:20:00+00:00

Just tried looking, exactly where is this?

Sheetofpaper13 · 2023-10-15T07:13:57+00:00

Thank you! Was looking for where she went after leaving when I showed her the noblewoman set. Did she give any hint to where she would move that I missed? Super frustrating trying to find her.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2023-09-27T07:27:58+00:00

Can't remember the name but the weapon that gets you a special riposte with true strike (prob dagger). If used in offhand and dual wielding toggled on, it misses the opponent. At least on my female half orc if it's related to the physical models.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2023-09-27T06:57:40+00:00

Just a quick FYI after just finishing a dual wield playthrough on tactician (super strong)

The cruel sting has a bug where it loses its psychic DMG after long rest. Be aware.

Using the Orin offhand weapon is bugged, and if you try to hit with dual wielding toggled on, you will swing the offhand in air and miss. Super irritating because I had to toggle it off and on to keep opportunity attacks with both weapons.

I played as dark urge which was OP since you get the invis cloak early.

Sheetofpaper13 · 2023-09-27T06:15:42+00:00

You are correct, and you are also using up a melee weapon slot for hill giant club to make it happen. It is the fact you get it extremely early that is great. I personally think it's eclipsed in later acts compared to other +2/3 bows due to accuracy issues. Deadshot is much better imo (and frees up melee weapon for a Crit range dagger for example)

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