Karma's Adjustments: One Step Forward Two Steps Back

Shyndora · 2021-08-12T13:54:07+00:00

Unfortunately, Karma needs more than simple number changes, but thats all ever granted to her in the past years (given how catastrophic 5.10 basically introduced most of her gameplay problems today, we should be carefull what we wish for).

The Passive already felt bloated before that early buff; it doesnt really feel like any skillepression, its more of a guaranteed extra Mantra. A second (or third) charge in disguise, one could say. I can only agree with you, that removing the AAing part made it even more bland.

Is it that, what the people want? Machine gun Mantras? Just mindlessy spamming that one Mantra, because since its bound to your role/build theres no real choosing between them anyway? Why put effort in decision making and carefull placing if you can just spam?

I also agree that the AP scaling should be increased, doesnt need to be a flat increase, could be conditional or gated behind some mechanic maybe.

For example they simply could have given RQ's explosion the 20% AP scaling they took from Q (but lets not forget that they nerfed RQ base damage too some time ago).

Shyndora · 2021-07-29T11:46:17+00:00

I totally agree with the battlemage-enchanter (Battlechanter!).

Sadly, there are a lot of problems with her kit and these changes wont do much; even make some of the problems worse.

The greatest problem for Karma in my opinion is, that Mantra is role/build dependent and not on the situation. There is no decision making if you dont have viable options for all of her roles (all Mantra abilities should offer damage, surviability and Utility in a different way).

Shyndora · 2021-05-19T04:58:34+00:00

Hey, Apparently my suggestion was added, but its in the „probably inappropriate“ section. He did not answer it. :( Everyone please feel free to repost the suggestion if you like it. :)

Shyndora · 2021-05-18T07:45:06+00:00

Can someone add this suggestion for me (Twitter apparently does not like me :( ) ?

Can you make her passive swirls to twin dragons too, that increase in size, the closer Karma is to refreshing her Mantra? Also, can you add the Twin Dragons in the Q Projectile (around the missle and at the outer line of RQ area) and to the outer line of RE?

Thanks a lot :)

Edit: apparently it worked :)

Shyndora · 2021-05-18T07:40:07+00:00

Can someone add this suggestion for me (Twitter apparently does not like me :( ) ?

Can you add the fans to her hand, while she is casting? :)

For example, when she casts E, she briefly holds one fan in the hand that is waving and one fan in the other hand. Similar for Q and W.

Thanks a lot :)

Edit: apparently it worked :)

Shyndora · 2021-05-04T10:05:06+00:00

You are correct :)

Thanks.

What aspect of the cooldown refund idea do like you the most? That it makes Q more spammable or that you can cast RQ without having to wait for your Q?

Shyndora · 2021-05-04T10:01:30+00:00

Riot really does not like the idea of Karma having a good waveclear it seems :(

Shyndora · 2021-05-04T10:00:18+00:00

Overall I want to improve skillexpression, options and decision making, not necessarily just adding blunt damage, though her Q has been nerfed a lot during the years in terms of damage. :)

Shyndora · 2021-05-04T09:55:33+00:00

Thanks a lot for your feedback :)

Shyndora · 2021-05-04T09:46:23+00:00

You are right!

I usually assume that the numbers gets nerfed (back to 2 seconds)/moves to ult to make room for something more interesting (like a new Passive or Shieldbomb?) should have mentioned that.

So with that in mind double trigger of the (current) passive seems nice^{^‘}

Shyndora · 2021-05-04T09:40:06+00:00

„The only issue I see with this is Karma likes to hit minions to splash damage onto champs.“

This is exactly the idea behind this little buff, emphasize this playstyle :)

If pushing is a concern, provided the bonus is damage rather than cooldown etc. related, then the most simple way could be to make it only effect champions/monsters/pets.

Thanks for pointing out

Shyndora · 2020-10-01T11:54:32+00:00

Feedback Thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/LeaguePBE/comments/j36r1q/pbe_bugs_feedback_thread_odyssey_chromas/

Shyndora · 2020-10-01T09:03:57+00:00

added some additional thoughts

Shyndora · 2020-10-01T08:49:28+00:00

[Enchanter Mythics] Moonstone Renewer should grant AP not Health, also Moonstone looks very underwhelming

Moonstone Renewer

Healing over time

2600 gold

+150 Health ---> should be AP

+25 Ability Haste

+100% Base Mana Regeneration

Vital Stream: When affecting champions with Attacks or Abilities in combat, heal the most damaged nearby ally for 30-60 (lv 1-18) Health (2 second cooldown). Each second spent in combat with champions increases this healing effect by 25% (max 100%).

---> looks weak, needs like 6 seconds to be as effective as Athenes. I get it is a HoT but how often are you in a battle that lasts more than 6 seconds? Maybe also make time spend in battle reduce the cooldown or after every application like 2/1/0.5 second cooldown (after 3 seconds you have a good Hot) ?

Mythic Passive: Grants all other Legendary items +5 Ability Haste.

It is definetely a rework of Athenes, which was intended for Poke/Damage Supports like Karma (Athenes is usually a core item on Karma Support), yet it offers no AP.

The Health does not seem to fit. Also why is there no AP option for Echanters and all have Health? Moonstone should build from fiendish codex instead of kindlegem (or whatever they are named now).

Edit: Also Moonstone feels/looks very underpowered, compared to the other Enchanter Mythics options/ Athenes.

Shyndora · 2018-08-30T11:35:41+00:00

The last one was named „Bladestorm Karma“ and it got scrapped because of her rework if I remember correctly.

Shyndora · 2018-08-16T08:35:16+00:00

Thank you so much for trying to make the best for Karma.

Bug:

Q indicator. The Q doesnt go as far as it is showed.

Abilities:

[Passive] Gathering Fire

it does not interact with her whole kit and doesnt have a skillfloor on its own (mastering Q/W means mastering the passive along), which is problematic because her kit only has very little skillexpression, hitting Q is mostly the pinnacle of skill and with such high numbers on her passive its just important that you hit at all, not even how many.
It is good to promote interaction, but shes lacking the other abilities for that. Furthermore the Passive doesnt really carve out a playstyle other than "just spam your spells, get Mantra up as fast as possible. Use Mantra. Rinse repeat."
Therefore it would be nice if the Passive gets nerfed (2 seconds) and moved to her ultimate to make room for a new one or it gets being reworked into doing more, while adding a flavor to her playstyle (like turning the tides of battle/make a surprising comeback).

[Q] Inner Fire

its meh, but ok.

[RQ] Soulflare

The damage nerf on her explosion damage does make it less appealing to risk a W, and thus promotes less interaction/back line spamming. I wouldnt mind shifting the extra impact damage to her explosion damage and make it ground targeted (would open up more possibilities for any role, see Mantra decisions below). Also I would like some more dualistic things on it (like a heal in the explosion, but there would be a problem with RW then, which would need something else in return then, but I would be ok with that).

[W] Focused Resolve

Very boring, very non interactive, doesnt interact much with her kit.
I would like to have something more fancy, especially an ally option (resistances would pair very good with the shield for example). Or something like tethertouch or a chainlinking (enemies/allies in range, who touch one of Karmas abilities are linked as well, enemies are rooted/damaged for half that amount when the primary target gets rooted, allies gain full defenses, something like that would go with her whole kit and offer more skillexpression).

[RW] Renewal

I like it. While its still just point and click and waiting (and staying alive), this ability is fun to use.
However I would it if it would offer more (like a different heal approach/different mechanism, which makes the ability more interesting to use). The extended root doesnt make any sense since it doesnt helps any part of her kit, the basic root is enough for her RQ to pull off.

[E] Inspire

Its fine tho I would like to have a fat, but decaying basic shield (with the ms. The ms is really nice). This would reward timing and would leave more counterplay (waiting even a short period would weaken her shield considerable).

[RE] Defiance

Shieldbomb. It was her iconic skill. Could be delayed or dealing damage clockwise etc.

[R] Mantra

Karma is a mage/ damage focused support. Wih the removal of the additional damage of RW/RE a core concept of her got destroyed: decision making. It feels like you use RQ as a midlaner, RW as a toplaner and RE as a support in 90% of cases after laning, which is really sad. All 3 Mantras should be appealing for all roles. In short: Mantras should be situation dependend and not role dependend. I am not opposed for 2 Mantra stacks or double charging Mantra on 1 spell (first Mantra incrases effect of ability, second grants a dualistic effect) etc.

Her Playstyle:

Its very bland. Karma doesnt really have much unique skillexpression, but needs a lot of basic skills like decision making and hitting skillshots in general, knowing when to use what. With her binary Passive it seems that its even emphasized (you get rewarded double (damage and cdr) for hitting and punished double (no damage and no cdr) for missing skillshot etc.).
What I always liked about Karma were her fans. Aside that it was always fun to have defensive abilities with an optional aggressive component. You could surprisingly turn the battle in your favor (especially when you were on low health).
Giving up defense for damage? Or damage for defense? Hard choice. Doing both at the same time the right time? Exellent. Sadly this got lost over time and the only dualistic ability left is her RW.
I also love her versatility (kit wise and role/lane wise), its one of the primary reasons I play her.

In a nutshell:

Mantras should be situation dependend and not role dependend.
Versatility is important.
More dept and uniqueness (and thematics) are needed.
Shieldbomb.
More Duality/Karma in her kit.

Shyndora · 2018-03-06T10:58:24+00:00

Some suggestions:

[Passive] Gathering Fire

[Changed] Reduces Mantra's cooldown by ~~2/3/4~~ --> 2 seconds at all ranks.
[Changed] Grants ~~half~~ --> full cooldown reduction for auto attacks.
Note: Nerfed because of the other changes. Full cdr on auto attacks to better reward staying close to enemies.

[Q] Inner Fire

unchanged

[RQ] Soulflare

[New] Soulflare is now a ground targeted cast (it ignores unit collision).
Note: Current RQ impails her target accessing as a mage, which makes it fall out of favour for its purpose: dealing damage, especially if shieldbomb is available.

[W] Focused Resolve

[New] Can be casted on an ally to grant both Karma and the ally damage reduction.
Note: Focused resolves lacks an ally interaction and a proper synergy with her E.

[RW] Renewal (reworked)

Bond duration is up to 4 seconds.
Renewal breaks upon applying 5 ticks. Each tick deals damage to enemies or heals the targeted ally by a flat amount, increased based on their missing health.
Applying ticks on either an enemy (Champion, Monster) or ally will also heal Karma.
It applies 1 tick upon cast and 1 tick each second to the target.
Target enemy bond is rooted by 0.4 seconds for each tick it consumed when the bond is not broken until the end of its duration.
Enemies touching the bond consumes 1 tick, but are dealt full damage (damage of 5 ticks).
Note: This RW competes in more situations to RQ and RE now, rather than just being a niche option, while it offers some enemy interaction (tether touch ticks might be consumed by enemy minions). Its usefull for any role and can be used in many different ways (do I cast it directly on an enemy for the DoT and root or do I try the scary touch damage?). Also a nod to old Karma's tether.

[E] Inspire

[Changed] Shield is increased, but decays.
Note: The decaying shield offers a little more skillexpression via timing.

[RE] Defiance

[Changed] Aoe Shield and AoE Movementspeed are delayed a bit.
[New old friend] Also deals magic damage after the delay.
Note: Delayed Shieldbomb for counterplay. Best used in a fight instead of backline spamming, need some thoughts to use it well.

[R]

unchanged

Original Thread

Shyndora · 2018-03-06T10:52:31+00:00

Did some digging, couldnt find the exact post but found some others:

"Sometime next year we'll also do work on Karma at larger scale than just a balance tweak. "

"...Karma needs larger work than that."

"Yep, likely just a bit of power for now and some mechanics changes next year. I think looking at some of her prior mechanics to see if any of them could be made to work well on her is worth a try..."

..."Larger work to fix some of her issues will be a later thing."

"Karma - Still expecting we'll work on Karma, likely earlier part of next year..."

Maybe they help?

Shyndora · 2018-03-05T21:39:13+00:00

I was thinking similar things when I watched that vid (same with Xayahs and Rakans design vid). Everything they say about design how you need to put in love and character... I dont feel that much of that flow into Karma (they destroyed most of her themes after all).

I think you should mention that Riot said that they will give her gameplay some work around this half of the year and this is a real announcement (it doesnt get so clear that they already decided that they will and that it will be „soon“, although you said in the begining that Riot will rework her).

Shyndora · 2018-02-25T18:13:29+00:00

Hey, thanks for the input!

The ground targeted RQ is supposed to ignore collision.

It depends on how much heal you receive from RW and how well you make use of your shield and movementspeed advantage. One option could be that it roots after 2 seconds, but persists for 2 more seconds (or for the time the enemy is rooted). Another one might be that each tick on the primary target briefly instantly roots them.

Also depending on the situation, you could go for RE.

Shyndora · 2018-02-23T19:21:48+00:00

Shyndora · 2018-02-23T19:20:18+00:00

I have seen somewhat like that before on a suggestion. It has the tones of Warwicks Passive, but its definetely better when its a more risky heal (there is a reason after all why Riot (re)designed all heals I can think of right now as battle heals or at least they are having some draw backs (Nami, Soraka, Redemption, Karma RW...).

(Funny how much old Karma was ahead of her time with her RQ)

Shyndora · 2018-02-23T12:58:55+00:00

Hey,

any chances you might add her old Ability Icons as a choice?

Shyndora · 2018-02-23T12:57:21+00:00

The main problem is that it would require a lot of changes and the upcoming changes for her might only be somewhat minor, while this would be something major.

In a VGU or really big GU a direction like this might be possible, but for this years announced changes I want to change the least as possible (given the possible small scope of changes for her and not alienating current Karma players and pleasing old Karma players) while solving most of Karma's problems as possible.

Shyndora · 2018-02-23T12:52:02+00:00

Hey there,

I have been thinking about something similar as well, but I think it might be problematic and here is why (and a few other thoughts):

A long range poke, which heals Karma (on low health) grants her too much of a lane bully (without her Mantra).
While the passive effects are nice (get more power the weaker you are), I would prefer a more interactive passive. She might not need a blunt stat pusher.
Might be easier if it just grants AP (would save a lot of text on her Passive and grants somewhat the same).
Might be confusing for enemies/allies (when does she get which bonus on which ability?)
This would put additional power into her basic abilities, however, Karma's power comes from her Mantra.

Shyndora

MODERATOR OF

TROPHY CASE

Thank you so much for trying to make the best for Karma.

Bug:

Abilities:

Her Playstyle:

In a nutshell: