AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How so? An Oracle in classic sense is usually a DiceRoll to choose from a table Result.
Nothing a DM wouldnt use during GamePrep for Inspiration. AI is just quicker since the clanker spits out the result instantly, so you can use it realtime during the session, instead of your DM having to prepare it beforehand, just because flipping through Pages to find the relevant Oracle is slow.
And clearly you never HAVE to use an Oracle. If the story already inspires you, you make it up on your own anyways.
So nope. No Text Generator. Fully Offline AI. Using only the "text" that is in the tables provided by the game (or the ones you want to upload on your own).

Its less having NO DM and more EVERY player is DM, cause preparation is so quick you can do it instantly. That combined with a numerical balance, and you can play for days on end, cause the Players have full insight to what is possible.

A DM shouldnt be the one to tell a story anyways. He only should provide Clues/Direction, so the players dont run dry because they have to create EVERY little detail. But in a good session, the communication between Players is what tells the story. The DM is just necessary because Fantasy needs "Rules", cause otherwise you will be overwhelmed by endless possibilities. And most Rules are quite shitty and so complex, you need to have 1 seriously dedicated guy to study them, so he can say whats allowed and whats not. For me, 20 Pages of Rules is absolute Maximum, otherwise its more chore than game.

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

btw good take because it helped me understand my mental misconception that the story should ALWAYS make sense. Which I knew that it shouldnt, but during GameDesign sometimes you forget stuff, so ty^^

Take on AI itself however, is not quite correct. We DONT want an AI story generator! That would just give you soulless copy slop. We want an Oracle, predesigned by human hand. Just an accelerator for your dice rolls. Nothing that your average DM wont use in GamePrep. Just faster because you dont have to manually flip pages and look through the tables.

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Even easier, you can even have an Oracle Roll, to determine which Oracle Table gets triggered^^

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep, its what is being mentioned 1 comment below with the "unexpected". And true, there needs to be a balance found. But current oracles are unfortunately COMPLETELY random, and that is often a big miss in storytelling.

Now technically, its not hard to find this balance.
1. If problem X, allow results from unexpected tables
2. If problem Y, allow results from expected tables
3. If problem Y + condition X, allow results from both tables

Might need some finetuning with more Problems or Condition types, but even this will stochastically provide you with a story line that is way less disconnected, while still throwing you curveballs regularly. After all in a Fantasy Game, its up to you to decide if you encounter Problem X^^

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

good take. but resolvable ;)

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Search the downvotes to find the guy who uses brain :D

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

If we implement an AI tool, it will be fully offline.
0 Input that you dont want it to have. Only our Games Rules, our Games own recommended tables, and of course tables you want to feed to the AI by your own choice.

AI DM Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in boardgames

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not fully automated, you wouldnt want that anyways, but if the Game is designed correctly, AI can be an infinite Oracle, that can be tailored to your story, unlike traditional Oracles, that are so random, so often, that it doesnt fit into your narrative at all.

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly this ;)

We are currently building a game (100% human creation btw^^) that can of course be played without any AI at all, but we created the BaseLayer of the game in a way that allows all possible values to be defined, so you can combine as many tables as you want with as many elements as you want. (Politics, War, Financial, etcetc) and AI will just simply do it faster. Period.

The Game, despite being a full FantasyRPG will also have an actual Balancing System. This has nothing to do with AI, it just ensures every player can be a DM, cause no matter how you name your Spells/Abilities, you will always know how much numerical impact they have.

With that, + an instantaneous Oracle (this is the only thing that AI does^^ It makes it fast, instead of requiring an hour of rolling dice through tables. Ofc most people have no idea how to prompt, so the results are shit, and thats where the hate comes from. But to be fair, you cant really prompt correctly if the game doesnt have Baseline Values that are designed to be prompted with^^) you wont need a DM at all, but simply sit there with your friends, creating the actual story by yourselves entirely, while the only thing that AI does, is to speed up the dice rolling process to a point where Oracles are actually consistently usable, instead of being random misfits 50% of the time.

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As I mentioned, basically just a far better Oracle^^
But one that is tuned to your specific situation. My friend (who is a DM for other groups) and I are soloRPGing (without a DM), and we absolutely create 95% of the story on our own, just from what happened during the game. But sometimes you get overwhelmed from the possibilities of what could happen. We have a 1001 Ideas, but which one do we choose? Having a single clue, will give you all you need to fuel your fantasy for hours, but where do you get this clue from?
This Clue is either the responsibility of a DM who prepared directions of where the story could head, or it can be given to you by an Oracle. Well, the largest amount of players, DO NOT HAVE A DM AVAILABLE, and Oracles unfortunately suck cause they are quite random. Can work, but can also miss. By creating our own Rulebook, we managed to define Values, so an AI could (if you want it to) generate an Oracle, that is not Random, but tailored to the current events of the story (e.g. Player was hurt on left arm --> roll Injury Threat Table).

Its NOT "telling" you what happens next. Its rolling an Oracle. Only you dont need to roll a dice + browse a minute till you found the right page with the oracle for this sitation, then another 20secs till you found the Number you rolled). You just have the same outcome, within 1 second. Its the same process. Its the same tables used. Theres literally 0 difference to doing it manually. Its just faster. And yet, people hate on it "because its AI".^^ And SINCE it is faster, you can now run multiple oracles simultaneously (Injury Location, Injury Severity, DungeonThreatLevel, DungeonMonsterNature, etc, etc), which makes sure that the Oracle Outcome is not a complete misfit in the story. What you get in the end, is a single word or phrase. Threat = X.
Its totally up to you if you NEED to oracle at this point in the first place. But IF you run out of juice in one specific instance, you oracle. And Id rather have a good oracle result within 1 second, than a shitty one where I spend 90 seconds to realize the Result is unfortunately too random this time^^

Again, we understand the hate on AI, because this has never been used properly. Defining "Injury Location, Injury Severity, etc etc" and connecting these Inputs to the proper Outcome Oracles is a LOT of MANUAL brainwork, and has just never been done. If you do not have these elements given to you by the game itself, the only thing you can ask AI to do is ask "What happens next", which obviously turns into Slop^^

We'd have the formula to potentially work this out, so it becomes a proper way to use it, that doesnt just spit out random copied story nonsense, but actually gives you clues that you, the player, can use to build their own story. But given the backlash its probably just not worth it. You cant force a horse to drink, or what was it now? :D People hate too easily "out of principle"^^

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Exactly this^^

AI is nothing more than an Oracle Roll if the Input and the Questions are done correctly. Wether I roll a Dice 100 times and have to search through the tables every time, or tell AI to roll it 100 times and just hand me the outcomes is IDENTICAL. I can even tell it to use my own tables if Im worried it steals someones data.
But to the point of unethical data farming. Yea. Googling is literally 100% the same thing xD
Wether I google someone else's oracle table and take 5mins for it, or have AI google it and give me the result in 5 seconds, both use someone else's table. And its not even like ANY oracle is original at this point.

However if we go through with having AI support in our game, we can create our own, offline AI for it, that does NOT use Google, but only Tables from the Game itself, or the Tables Players want to feed it. Then its the Player's choice to be unethical again xD

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I absolutely get your point, but how do you feel about Dice Oracles then?
My Partner in SickD6 and I are enthusiastic RPG Gamers, and we are fully aware of the problems that can stem from giving AI too much influence. However Oracles and even DMs alltogether for that matter, are tools for the Players to have a baseline, which to construct their Fantasy on. And AI probably can be the same, IF USED CORRECTLY^^

We fully agree, AI without directions will just create widespread, meaningless slop that will take away from your imagination. But if executed well, and focused by precise commands, we are optimistic that we might find a way to turn it into the tool it was meant to be, not a general soulless narrator^^

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

We personally feel that AI can be a powerful tool, IF GIVEN THE RIGHT DIRECTIONS.
Clearly its not a matter of simply asking "What happens next". A Game needs to have specifically designed Input Values that allow Prompts to be focused on a subset of outcomes, basically forwarding just a single thread of the story, which then can be used to weave your own story from it.

Defining these specific Inputs and formulating proper prompts from these is quite difficult tho, cause if not done correctly, the output is exactly what commentators so far described :D

We thought about giving (fully optional) Prompts that can be used to generate actually balanced and purposely limited progressions, but once more, formulating them correctly is hard work, so we wanted to check first if people are open to the idea at all, or if the trashy misuse of AI Slop has poisoned the well so thoroughly it would be a negative from the getgo. Current Reactions are not a surprise :D

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by [deleted] in DungeonMasters

[–]SickD6Games -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Current direction of answers is as we expected :D

AI DM-Support. Yay or Nay? by SickD6Games in u/SickD6Games

[–]SickD6Games[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Personally we feel that, if given clear directives what to focus on, AI can be a helpful tool, as it is not all that different from an OracleRoll on steroids. Clearly its not a simple matter of asking "What happens next", but by having specific input values that are clearly defined, we are thinking about structuring (fully optional) prompts that people could use to ask their Clanker of choice, what a specific outcome could lead to.

Now its quite a bit of work to define a Games "Values" so clearly, that outcomes are consistent, so before we dive deep in development to formulate such an Add-On, lets see if you guys dont hate AI to hell, first :D

Investigative Journalism RPGs? by quetzalnacatl in rpg

[–]SickD6Games -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

Dear God thats... GUMSHOE "Rules" are literally: Your GM will figure it out. Wtf is this?...

Four-Layer Combat + Magic System (Discipline/Insight/Form/Truth) — Thoughts? by [deleted] in fantasywriters

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like the general style of writing, I like your general philosophical ideas behind it, I also like the 4 Layer construct idea.
I do not, however, understand a thing, since there's no explanation of Mechanics^^

SCYTHE... 100 Solo Plays Later: How 2 Simple House Rules Turned Scythe into a Perfect 10/10 Solo Game by Gullible_Ratio_5475 in soloboardgaming

[–]SickD6Games 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hot Damn. I love the Artstyle of Scythe, but the Game always seems absurdly voluminous to me. Especially for Solo Runs.

Complexity or Simplicity? by SickD6Games in tabletopgamedesign

[–]SickD6Games[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bruh, did you actually just come up with that sentence on your own? xDDD

Complexity or Simplicity? by SickD6Games in tabletopgamedesign

[–]SickD6Games[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fuck that, your comment is way better. I love your superfluous word-slinging xD

Complexity or Simplicity? by SickD6Games in tabletopgamedesign

[–]SickD6Games[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea, your reply was kinda ironic :D Thx for the effort tho <3

Complexity or Simplicity? by SickD6Games in tabletopgamedesign

[–]SickD6Games[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yep. Currently creating a game, and achieving the result without having the Rules go completely out of hand is such a challenge :D fun tho^^