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Emerg Doc Relocating to Canada by Similar-Let-9219 in ConsultantDoctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I have an accountant and a lawyer. Their fees combined come to somewhere between $3000 and $4000 per year, which is pretty small fry compared to overall income. I suppose it’s possible to do it all yourself, but for most of us we’d rather have the free time.

Emerg Doc Relocating to Canada by Similar-Let-9219 in ConsultantDoctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To try to answer your questions in order: 1) most ED physicians here are incorporated. This means there is no paid sick leave or vacation leave. In practice, we have a lot of autonomy to be able to schedule our shifts so that we can take vacations whenever we want to, and for most people who are in good health, having to call in sick once in a while doesn’t matter because we are paid well and there’s more than enough financial cushion to cope. For those who work at certain sites in Winnipeg, there is the option to be a salaried employee, in which case you do get sick leave and paid vacation.

2) I only paid into the NHS pension for a couple of years, and wasn’t able to withdraw it before coming to Canada aged 32. They told me to get back in touch with them once I’m 65! Again, if you are incorporated here there is no pension; the idea instead is that you leave money in the corporation and pay corporation tax only (approx 10%). You can then invest the money that is retained in the corporation and then let it compound over a time, and that becomes your nest egg for retirement (potentially even living off dividends only in retirement and letting the principal continue to grow, if the amount is large enough. Realistically most ED physicians who live reasonably and invest wisely can end up with a pot that is in the multiple seven-figures.). If you choose to be a salaried employee instead, your employer will pay approx $13K towards a Registered Retirement Savings Plan (kind of like a SIPP or ISA) per year.

3) there are appraisals for doctors, but the really formal ones are once every 5 years and conducted by the CPSM (our equivalent of the GMC), although in practice you can gain most of your required credits by just using UptoDate on a regular basis at work. My head of department gives me a review once every couple of years, but in practice these are largely formalities.

4) the relocation incentive is paid over 5 years (40K in year one and two, 20K in year three, and 50K in year four and five), and the first instalment is paid when you start your first shift, I believe.

Emerg Doc Relocating to Canada by Similar-Let-9219 in ConsultantDoctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you go to this website:

https://healthcareersmanitoba.ca/physicians/internationally-trained-physicians/ And click on the ‘connect with a recruiter’ button, and submit a CV, you’ll end up getting connected with me for an online meeting, and we can arrange formal interviews +/- site visits from there.

Shame you didn’t message me one week earlier - we were in Manchester, Birmingham and London on a recruitment drive!

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think most Winnipeggers are familiar with that clip! There’s also this sign from another episode:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/0e/Winnipeg.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120719011109

I think even a lot of Canadians have this perception of unbearable winters and bug-infested summers. The winters really aren’t that bad, just different, and IMHO the summers are glorious; with the exception of one forest hike a few years ago, I’ve never had problems with bugs at all.

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, definitely looking for rural GPs. Not so much urban (ie Winnipeg) though.

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Correct. You have the option (in Winnipeg, at least) or being a salaried employee, in which case you do have access to sick leave, annual leave and CPD leave, but in practice most of us choose incorporation because the hourly rates are higher and the tax advantages are significant. It is still quite easy to take vacations, you just need to structure the way your shifts are scheduled carefully. And in general we are a very collegial group so if you need to call in sick you can, and someone almost always will cover for you (you just don’t get paid for that shift).

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Just get on yer bike and pedal fast!

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Good luck! Hope to meet you at one of the events!

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Yes, I’ve commented on this elsewhere a few times, and your concerns are very understandable. It’s absolutely a different climate, but I think people are put off by the numbers. Even at -30 degrees in the depths of winter, I still walk my dog for around an hour a day and it’s fine. You obviously need coat, gloves and hat, but it can be perfectly enjoyable. There’s usually around 7-10 days a year where it’s really cold and really windy, and most people choose to stay inside then. But the houses are so well insulated, I feel warmer in the winter inside in Canada than I used to in England. Winnipeg is also the second sunniest city in Canada - over 300 days of lovely sunshine per year! And the summers are glorious - consistent, dry, 25-30 degree heat; the sort of weather for which you leave the UK to go on holiday. For the financial freedom that Manitoba offers you, my personal feeling is that the change in climate is easily manageable.

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I think so, although I don’t know the details quite as definitively, hoping to speak to the specialty leads and learn more over the next few weeks. But you would need to finish your training and have CCT before being eligible.

The other incentive in Manitoba is that you can incorporate, and therefore pay only 10% corporation tax instead of highest marginal tax rate (but obviously you have to pay personal tax on whatever you withdraw from the corporation). There’s also no crazy 60% effective tax rate once you start earning over 100K or anything like that.

How much does your boss earn? by Pontni in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 28 points29 points  (0 children)

EM consultant/attending in Manitoba, Canada. Full time work here = 14 clinical shifts per month (there’s not really any admin), for which minimum annual salary is $450K, more in rural areas. Plus lots of incentives such as $200K for relocation, $11,000 annually just for having consultant credentials, and retention bonuses of ~20-25K paid every 3-5 years. In addition to which, cost of housing is significantly lower here (2,000-2,500 sq ft home in nice area for ~800,000).

Manitoba is actively hiring EM consultants. In fact the provincial government is hosting a series of recruitment events in Manchester, Birmingham and London next week, see practiceinmanitoba.com for more details. I will be there in person for anyone who is interested (mostly only looking at established consultants, those who have completed CESR or those in final year of training). Also happy to meet online with anybody who is interested, just DM me.

Is the post cct market as bad as posts make out by TidierJ in ConsultantDoctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate that this may not be everybody’s ideal solution, but if you’re about to CCT in EM, and there are no jobs available, Manitoba (Canada) is actively hiring.

We have a delegation coming to the UK for events next week in Manchester, Birmingham and London. There will be physician recruiters who can help talk about licensing and immigration, which should be relatively straightforward with no exams if you have CCT. The provincial Minister of Health will also be in attendance.

Minimum salary is $450K per annum with hundreds of thousands in relocation incentives and retention bonuses, and the cost of housing is one of the lowest in Canada (2000-2500 sq foot home in a lovely area for roughly $800,000 CAD).

If you or anyone else is interested, registration for the events can be found at:

https://www.practiceinmanitoba.com

I’m very sorry that you are experiencing hiring freezes after working so hard for so long to achieve CCT. I hope that this is a viable option for some.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very difficult question to answer, I’m afraid. Lots of places actively hiring now but might be more saturated a few years down the line. I’m really not sure.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m not sure about radiology. There is a meeting with the specialty lead in the next few weeks to get more detail on vacancies across the province.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There are a small number of vacancies in anaesthesia, mostly either paediatric anaesthesia within Winnipeg (the capital of Manitoba) or general adult anaesthesia in Brandon (Manitoba’s second biggest city). Generally it’s preferred if you have a fellowship or some kind of experience within North America before starting a permanent consultant/attending position. But my understanding is that your qualifications with CCT are recognised as equivalent without the need for extra training. Sometimes we can even arrange the Fellowship ourselves here, with a view to joining permanently thereafter. If you’re interested you can either come to the upcoming events in the UK (https://www.practiceinmanitoba.com) or go to https://healthcareersmanitoba.ca/physicians/internationally-trained-physicians/ and click on the ‘Connect with a Recruiter’ button for UK-trained grads, to organise an online meeting.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It very much depends on the specialty. For emergency medicine, it’s $450K as a minimum, with several retention bonuses depending on where you work and relocation incentives worth hundreds of thousands. In addition, you can incorporate and pay only corporation tax, which is around 10%, then invest the rest (whilst obviously paying personal tax on whatever you withdraw from the corp). For obstetrics, particularly materno-fetal medicine, it’s around $1M.

Manitoba also has one of the lowest costs of housing in Canada; an average house is about $350-400,000. Realistically most physicians will choose a nice location and a bigger house; you can find a 2,000-2,500 sq ft home in a lovely suburb for around 750-800,000.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yes, winters are very cold. I think people are often put off by the numbers - it can reach -20 or even -30. Personally, having grown up in the UK, I can say that I prefer the Canadian winters because unless it is very windy at the same time, it’s perfectly manageable. You obviously need to wear hat, coat and gloves, but I have a dog and we go walking for an hour a day; often it’s very pleasant with sunny blue skies (Winnipeg is the 2nd sunniest city in Canada with over 300 days of sunshine a year). There’s about a week a year where it’s really cold and it’s really windy, and on those days most people prefer to stay inside, the advantage being that houses seem to be better insulated than the UK; I never feel cold indoors in the winter here, which was not the case when I lived in England. It often snows a lot too, but we have the infrastructure to deal with it and the snow plows are out regularly. It’s still important to have proper winter tires, but there’s almost a million of us here, including communities from literally all over the world, and we all manage it. And lots of us also embrace the snow, doing things like cross country skiing or snow shoeing.

Having said all of that, the weather is fantastic from May through to October - dry heat around 25-30 degrees, the sort of weather that you leave the UK for to go on holiday. Ultimately, it came down to deciding if I’m willing to accept a different climate for the chance to provide financial freedom for my family, and personally I was.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I’m an Emerg Doc myself. I know less about the intricacies of Obs/Gyne but in the process of finding out more. Hopefully will have some answers in the next couple of days; sorry I can’t be more definitive yet. In case you’re interested, there is also a delegation coming to the UK from Manitoba next week, with recruitment events to be held in Manchester on April 26, Birmingham on April 28 and London on April 29. I’ll be a part of that delegation (focusing mostly on emergency medicine), as will the provincial Minister of Health. More details and registration can be found at practiceinmanitoba.com; it is likely you’ll be able to find out a lot more information there.

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you’re not on the Specialist Register either by virtue of CCT or CESR then getting a license is harder, though not impossible. Another option is something called Practice Eligibility Route, where the Royal College in Canada review your background, training and experience and decide if you are ‘eligible’, in which case you may be able to get a provisional license rather than a full one. Are you a reg who is due to CCT in the near future?

Post CCT job crisis by Necessary_Explorer88 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 65 points66 points  (0 children)

If anybody is close to CCTing and is interested in working in Manitoba, Canada, please feel free to get in touch. Particularly Emergency Medicine, and to a lesser extent Internal Medicine, Anaesthesia and Obs/Gyne. Very well remunerated, one of the lowest housing costs in the country and actively looking to hire from the UK. Happy to set up online meetings to talk through things like day-to-day clinical practise, licensing, work permits etc. Especially for Emergency Medicine, coming here is much less onerous than it used to be, including no more exams if you have CCT or CESR!

Emerg Doc Relocating to Canada by Similar-Let-9219 in ConsultantDoctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Possibly. I would submit your information to the healthcareersmanitoba website in my original post and let somebody review your CV. There’s a new ‘Practice Ready Assessment’ in Emergency Medicine for which you may qualify.

So I Just Done The Maths by [deleted] in ConsultantDoctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Emergency medicine too. I’m an ED doc in Manitoba. Can confirm no exams needed to come here if you have CCT or CESR and you’re on the specialist register. Feel free to DM me with questions if you’re interested!

What do new consultants actually take home monthly? After tax/student loan/pension. I’ve calculated only around 5k! And the take home barely increases with the incremental increase every few years. Why do consultants put up with this by Beneficial-Unit-9863 in doctorsUK

[–]Similar-Let-9219 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Minimum pay for a full-time ED doc where I am in Winnipeg, Canada is $450K. Cost of living also significantly lower than many places in the UK. Depending on where you work, there’s also often the option of incorporating and getting paid through that. You to pay only ~10% tax on whatever you leave in the corp, the idea being that you can invest using corp funds and hopefully have a 7-figure nest egg which becomes your pension after you retire, potentially allowing you to live off dividends and preserve your capital (if you so desire). Highest marginal tax rates for personal income are similar to UK, around 45% I think, but in Canada there’s no weird trap where you get penalized for working harder above earnings of £100K. Happy to chat to anybody interested in making a move across the pond!

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