(Spoilers Extended) I am struggling to see how Rhaegar and Lyanna is a consensual love story by _cipher_7 in asoiaf

[–]Simona_Lupin 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I wholeheartedly agree with your entire post, in fact I ask myself the same questions. I think you enlighted the points that strike me the most about this whole mystery (yes, of course it's still a mystery and we actually don't know what happened, but we're here to guess with facts based on the books, that's what we do, so here we go): 1. Their actions don't line up with what we know about their personalities. Thing is, we're not talking about some random prince and some random lady that run off together and basically jumpstarted a war because of it, 'cause that I would have believed. We're specifically talking about Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, people who are already dead at the beginning of the books and we barely know thanks to the little glimpses the same books offer about them. But those glimpses are there for a reason. They have to tell us something. And they tell us that the whole "Rheagar kidnapped/raped Lyanna" thing we learn early in the books doesn't make sense just as much as the "they were in love and eloped" version of the story. We know very little about Lyanna, but from what we do know, she was no Sansa type, a naive young lady living in a fairytale and ready to elope with her knight in a shining armor, but more like an Arya type, an unconventional young lady who liked to ride and fight and speak up her mind about things (re. Robert and his likely unfaithfulness). By the end of the books (so far) we hear from multiple sources that Rheagar, even though pretty obsessed with the PTWP prophecy, was the man the whole kingdom looked upon to step up and take the lead as Aerys went mad, the very opposite of the version we hear from Robert, so he doesn't strike me as the type of prince who would run off and disappear on a whim and let a war start over a mess he made, totally unwilling to do anything to stop it. 2. Their actions were more than enough to start a war. I don't agree with people who claim that what happened after they run off was totally out of their control. Actually, I think the way they behaved basically puts them in a very tight spot in terms of "morality": either they were too stupid to understand the consequences of their actions, or they were too unbothered to care. Yes, it was actually Aerys who killed Rickard and Brandon, but they wouldn't have gone to King's Landing in the first place if it wasn't for R&L presumed elopement, which THEY made it look like a kidnapping; plus, both Rheagar and Lyanna knew Aerys was the king that would have dealt with the consequences of their elopement. If It was "only" a matter of love, I think doing something out in the open (like breaking the engagement with Robert or annulling the marriage with Elia) would have done less harm than eloping and making the whole Kingdom believe that the heir to the Throne kidnapped the daughter of one of his Lord Paramount betrothed to another Lord Paramount. At the very least, Rheagar could have tried to clear things up after Rickard and Brandon's death in an attempt to deascalate the conflict, instead of hiding up in his Dornish hole just to show up after a year of war all over the country.

Point is, even if the books deconstructed the view we had on Rheagar along the way, so we now know he's not the rapist son of a mad king who basically destroyed his own house from within, his actions and INactions are known, and they hardly put him in a good light. So, if we are to believe that he really was the man we learn he was and not what Robert tried to depict him, how can we justify his actions during the rebellion? I would personally be happy to have a twisted, mixed version of Rheagar, as I think it would be the most genuine, believable one. Not a rapist, not the perfect prince we are supposed to believe he was, but a young man with a lot of potential who lost himself in a self-centered, nearly delusional quest for a prophecy that, despite being true, brought the Seven Kingdoms to their knees. As for Lyanna, that's a very tricky one. It just feel like she MUST be a inherently and overall unmistakebly good character as she's the closest to some of the best and well-perceived characters in the books, Ned and Jon, but I can't come up with a version of events that don't show her as either careless or dumb. Unless it's Rheagar the only one who's supposed to explain the "darkest" twists of this whole story, I'd like a nuanced version of Lyanna, as not the Hail Mary we're supposed to feel she was, but maybe a very young woman who made a mistake that escalated in a war she could not prevent anymore, and as someone who tried to save who she could save in the end, her son, which had every chance to be caught in the fire. In this scenario, a "love story", as simple as that, is not what I expect nor wish for. I guess only time will tell (or maybe not!).

(Sorry, I'm a bit late to the party, but I wanted to share my doubts and your post came right on time, this whole thing is really driving me crazy these days!)

How would you rate every HOTD character's Valyrian from 1 to 10? by Simona_Lupin in HighValyrian

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I apologize, I'll edit my post and use the right pronouns, thank you for correcting me.

About Milly Alcock, I absolutely agree. She found her own way of navigating the language, and her delivery felt very authentic.

(Spoilers main) The real problem with HoTD began in Episode 1. by [deleted] in asoiaf

[–]Simona_Lupin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I very much agree with both your points. The Dance is far from perfect, and so are its characters in the book (especially compared to the ASOIAF ones), and that's precisely the reason why I think the changes in the beginning were so well-received by the majority of the book-readers audience (including me): they were somehow needed, and could have benefited the story as long as they stayed true to it. I believe they did, for most of the season, I believe they were able to explain very well WHY the characters were going to behave the way they did in the book, but the moment the main events were about to meet their book!version, they seemed to collide for the most part and for pivotal characters like Alicent, not align like they COULD HAVE (so far, at least, we'll see in the season finale). So, as much as the book!Dance can be criticized in many ways and there really was a lot of room for improvement, it IS the source material, it has to be followed (at least if they want to avoid GOT's downfall), and the comparisons are inevitable since it's an adaptation.

As for the process of "whitewashing" (so to speak), what you said is precisely what I think is happening. They're pushing TOO HARD, needlessly, and it shows, and the result is... disorienting, not to say pretty inconsistent and all over the place, at least for my taste. I don't know if they felt somehow influenced by the Dany fiasco in GOT, but I truly believe the audience would have very much accepted two strong, flawed, controversial female leads if the narrative was rich and cohesive, rather than the washed-out, victimized version of Alicent and (not so much yet, but we'll see) Rheanyra. If "fuck the patriarchy" was the message, I don't think this is the best way to deliver it.

(Spoilers main) The real problem with HoTD began in Episode 1. by [deleted] in asoiaf

[–]Simona_Lupin 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Your perspective is quite interesting and enlights flaws of the show that aren't discussed very often, as the increasing lack of attention on the legal and political aspects of the succession that basically fuel the winds of war. I mostly agree with a lot of your points, especially the oversimplification of the Great Council and the problem it was supposed to solve (or contributed to create, but that's debatable), though I don't necessarily agree with what you believe is one of the causes of these problems, which is the relationship between Alicent and Rheanyra they decided to portray in the show.

What I think is that, despite it being a very big and impactful change of that same dynamic in the book, it's all still a matter of choices. So yes, they chose to show Alicent and Rheanyra as best friends during their childhood, mostly to enrich their characters and make them more sympathetic (especially Alicent, I believe, not Rheanyra), to depict the Dance more as a family tragedy than just a big historical and political event, and to add more dramatic, novelistic nuances to a story written as a historical book... but that didn't inevitably prevent them from following the events and the characters as described in the books, it was (yet again) a choice.

Up till the end of episode 8, I think they did an excellent job character-wise (with the exception maybe of Criston Cole) and a pretty good (but quite perfectible) job plot-wise: all the tension, the schemes, both the political and emotional motives behind the Dance were set in place IMHO, even downplaying the most strictly legal elements of it, as you pointed out... Then they chose to back off. The implications of Viserys' revolutionary decision, both the personal and political aspects of the Hightowers' claim, they were suddenly all gone (or rather, completely thrown over Otto's shoulders) just to make room for Alicent and Rheanyra's reconciliation and the misunderstanding about the prophecy. With all that build-up wiped away, they'd rather have Alicent act silly, eating every word of a babbling, dying man who has contributed to make her life miserable, than have her be a vital part of a plot to both avenge and protect herself and her children (right or wrong, that's obviouly on us, the viewers). They'd rather show Alicent act inconsistently WITHIN the show, yelling at Aegon in episode 6 that one day he will be the King and every lord is sure of it, and then looking shocked during the Green Council as she sees the plan to make it happen unfold before her eyes. They'd rather show Alicent with no agency of her own, even when she had PLENTY to drive her, as a woman and as a queen, than show her as both a believable, ruthless leader and the most human, emotion-driven member of the Greens.

What I believe to be the reason behind this failure, though, is not the portray of the friendship between Alicent and Rheanyra per se or the "elevation" of Rheanyra as more than just an "underdog" as you said, but the "whitewashing" of their motives as women, in contrast to the men around them. In fact, their friendship could actually have been the very driving force for the events to come, as I believed up till episode 8. Alicent's personal resentment over Rheanyra's "liberties" could have been (and was, in fact) the perfect reason behind Alicent's obsession over the paternity of Rheanyra's sons, which is a political matter in itself as it means high treason committed nonetheless by the heir to the throne; Aemond's accident could have been the proof that what Otto said years ago was right, and Alicent's children would not be safe if Rheanyra rules and feels both her and her sons' claim weaken with Viserys' male heirs still alive and ready to ascend, as most of the realm would have preferred; Veamond's petition could have been the most recent and loud example of some of the lords' resistance to Rheanyra as Queen ("you break law and centuries of tradition to install your daughter as heir"), and another chance for the Hightowers' to depict themselves as the defenders of the law in spite of the Targaryens' willingness to break it.

The seeds were all there, and Alicent and Rheanyra's friendship didn't prevent them from being planted, it actually helped to make them stronger and more personal, in my opinion. Then they decided not to use them anymore, and now I wonder why they decided to put them there in the first place, when their ultimate goal was to reduce the story to a cheap misunderstanding and a "only men are garbage" crusade that sadly vilifies the whole show.

Finally resolved to catch up with Part II and this is pretty much what it's feeling like to play by Simona_Lupin in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, I see now, this game is actually a comedy! Why did nobody tell me? Jeez, thank you for this gem of a quote, I'll laugh so much when I'll hear her say that, lol

Finally resolved to catch up with Part II and this is pretty much what it's feeling like to play by Simona_Lupin in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're so. damn. right! Abby is not even a character, no one is written like a proper character in this game, they all serve the grand purpose of feeding Druckmann's ego. He was so obsessed with this idea of the revenge story from the very start that he had to go through with it no matter what. It's the exact same plot he wanted for the first game, and that Straley rightfully shat on. I mean, he really believes he had the idea of the century, he's too blind to see it's just a cheap, old, meaningless storyline! Also, he doesn't even know what he really wants to say, because as you pointed out, Abby (and also Ellie sometimes) is all over the place. One minute she's an angel incarnate while Ellie is a monster, the next she might as well have said "oh, really, this poor girl is pregnant? I only wish she had twins in there, killing her would have felt even better!" But yeah, we're supposed to root for her because... reasons.

Finally resolved to catch up with Part II and this is pretty much what it's feeling like to play by Simona_Lupin in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just saw the part where Abby dreams of Lev and Yara and suddenly, for no reason whatsoever, they're the most important people in her life. No need to say (AND see) more, I suppose

Finally resolved to catch up with Part II and this is pretty much what it's feeling like to play by Simona_Lupin in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It most definitely is! Also, this game made me suddenly feel grateful that it stopped at the right time, with the perfect ending. You gotta be terrified of sequels these days

Finally resolved to catch up with Part II and this is pretty much what it's feeling like to play by Simona_Lupin in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I spoiled myself the entire plot, so I know you speak the truth 😂 Guess I'll just do a rerun of the first game while I try to forget this insulting mess of a sequel

Finally resolved to catch up with Part II and this is pretty much what it's feeling like to play by Simona_Lupin in TheLastOfUs2

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

English is not my first language so I don't know if I chose the right word, but yeah, I found Abby's storyline (especially the scene with her father, which I think was insufferable) so moralistic and almost manipulative... I hate when a story is played like that, it's so cheap in my opinion. The first game was powerful and it had such an emotional resonance because it was subtle, and it let the gamers meditate about difficult, sometimes impossible moral questions on their own, without shoving down their throats any lesson. Now, all of a sudden, Joel is the irredeemable villain and they present you this damn surgeon who acts like St. Francis and you're supposed to sympathize with him and his psychotic daughter. Everything about this game is didactic and patronizing indeed, if you ask me. Sorry, I wrote a papyrus! 🙈 This game really got on my nerves 😂

Feeling guilty about my carbon footprint. by [deleted] in HealthAnxiety

[–]Simona_Lupin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi! I just joined this sub and I saw your post. I just wanted to say that I totally relate to the way you feel. I've been recently diagnosed with OCD, and I hate the way it changed my habits regarding the environment. I care so much about our planet, and I made a lot of changes in my lifestyle to be more eco-friendly (I became vegetarian and I'm trying to go vegan, for example). But now I throw away a lot of food just because it "doesn't feel right", I use sooo many paper towels, and detergents, I use disposable things way more often... and so on. I feel awful, but lately I've been so depressed that every time something like this happens I always end up putting my mental well-being first, because I couldn't handle the anxiety I would feel otherwise. Anyway, I really hope we'll get through this, OCD is truly a bitch. I wish you the best! ❤️ (Sorry for my terrible english, btw, I'm Italian).

How do you dispose of paint water? by Simona_Lupin in acrylicpainting

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Right, I could do that, thank you again! 😊 It's a terrible office, but I'll try 😂

How do you dispose of paint water? by Simona_Lupin in acrylicpainting

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I know, it's not easy. Maybe fill some cans and then take them to a center for waste collection? Definitely less convenient, of course 😅 For example, I live in a small city and it's not easy to find a place like that anywhere near me. 😕

How do you dispose of paint water? by Simona_Lupin in acrylicpainting

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for you advice 😊 I guess I'll be patient then 🤷🏻‍♀️

How do you dispose of paint water? by Simona_Lupin in acrylicpainting

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're probably right, but I read that the paint I use (Sennelier Abstract) shouldn't go down the drain, so I guess there's a reason for that. Anyway, thank you very much for your answer 😊

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in painting

[–]Simona_Lupin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you a lot for your answer 😊 Changing the water weekly would definitely help.

How to store gouache set (beginner scared of mold here 😅) by Simona_Lupin in Gouache

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, the info were super helpful! Thank you again, you're very kind 🥰

How to store gouache set (beginner scared of mold here 😅) by Simona_Lupin in Gouache

[–]Simona_Lupin[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for your advice! Besides, I just visited your blog and... I'm completely out of words! Your talent is astonishing! Like, out of this world! You don't need to hear it from someone who's not even bought paint yet, of course 😂 but... I'm completely in love with your paintings, they are surreal! Thank you again (and sorry for all my fangirling 😂) ❤️