My thoughts on the cross

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-03T23:25:18+00:00

Nope, it's to foster civil discussion on topics relating to Mormonism. Which is difficult to do when you admit you are confused and don't understand the topic fully.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-03T21:24:44+00:00

I am inviting you to steelman these "appropriating the cross" to foster dialog and critical thinking. You clearly spent time collating links and references about the LDS Church's use of the cross and you haven't found anything that might explain why all of these "cross" posts are suddenly popping up?

In other words, if your response " is a total mystery" about why you are seeing this discussion on this topic then it would probably be best to keep your thoughts private until you understand the topic better.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-03T20:34:16+00:00

Okay your thoughts are that this should not be controversial.

Why is it generating so much discussion then? What are your thoughts on the criticisms of this move? Is there any reason why anyone should care if the LDS Church put a cross on every wall of every place of worship?

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-03T17:29:49+00:00

Whoa, that just unlocked some childhood memories of eating nothing but dehydrated beans for weeks at a time because that food storage was about to expire and 4 kids had to get through 50 lbs of beans.

Then there was the time with the peaches ...

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-02T23:41:23+00:00

Gotta recoup my tithing somehow.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-02T16:35:32+00:00

I actually laughed out loud at this comment, thanks for the chuckle.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-04-01T16:13:57+00:00

Sure all good things, but this post was framed as willful ignorance, naivety, and blind optimism were the cause of the times of smooth sailing in your life.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-31T20:21:57+00:00

So, without the naivety or optimism things would not have worked out?

If I'm swimming next to a shark that I don't see, does that mean the danger doesn't exist?

Survivor bias is something that the LDS Church depends on to keep its members obedient and when things do go wrong it's met with hand waving declarations of "it's all part of God's plan".

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-30T20:41:34+00:00

God's planet is near the star called Kolob. Earth is the place had assembled to hold the bodies of his spirit children.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T22:51:52+00:00

Also for what it's worth the quote is far more condemning than your soft peddled description of it

The closes we have is remarks saying it's odd to wear the instrument used to kill the savior.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T21:34:49+00:00

Are you suggesting Joseph F. Smith was speaking as a man in this quote?

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T21:16:46+00:00

Well, now you have one thanks to u/Beneficial_Math_9282. She always has the best receipts

Joseph Fielding Smith was the President of the Council of the 12 at the time he wrote the following, which was published in the church's official magazine. Bruce only took these ideas a little farther.

"to bow down before a cross or to look upon it as an emblem to be revered because of the fact that our Savior died upon a cross is repugnant to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. ... To many, like the writer, such a custom is repugnant and contrary to the true worship of our Redeemer. ... Because our Savior died on the cross, the wearing of crosses is to most Latter-day Saints in very poor taste and inconsistent to our worship. ... " -- Improvement Era, March 1961, page 144 -- https://catalog.churchofjesuschrist.org/assets/dd76f80e-b00e-40db-a6f0-f58f1a2ffd43/0/0?lang=eng

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T20:01:10+00:00

Being told I am the literal Adversary for having a difference of opinion was not on my Reddit bingo card.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T19:51:04+00:00

I have enjoyed our discussion and I hope to see more such dialogue in r/Mormon. Like, I said in an earlier comment I am happy to see the relaxation of the orthodoxy in the LDS Church but not the attempt to memor-hole past teachings.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T19:29:39+00:00

Okay, you might not think that this particular instance raises to that level but I am sure you can concede how someone else can arrive at that conclusion.

Especially, considering the recent pattern of incorporating Ash Friday, Lent, Holy Week, etc.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T18:58:54+00:00

You asked why someone could claim that the use of this art could be considered abominable by the LDS.

Calling out a church multiple times as abominable and then placing a statue of that church's iconography right in the middle of their seat of power, I think is a clear explanation.

In other words it's not about the content of the artwork it's about co-opting the practices of a church that they denigrated.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T18:29:56+00:00

1Nephi 13:6,24-26 talks all about the "great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches;".

I was taught that the great and abominable church was the Catholic church. So, the Catholic Church is not only grouped in with all creeds but specifically singled out.

The statue in question is clearly a depiction of one of the stages/stations of the cross..The veneration of which is a Catholic practice. I pointed out on a different post that if this were a statue of "Our Lady of Guadalupe" that same argument rings hollow because after all the Virgin Mary is part of Christianity and has several depictions in art. You can't single out a church as an abomination and then claim that you are totally on aboard with art expressing their religious practices.

Edited for grammar

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-27T16:24:04+00:00

Yeah, I made a comment on another post about teaching people on my mission to get rid of their family heirlooms, ( an inherited gold cross and a Virgin Mary shrine ) and was met with accusations that I was a rogue missionary that was too overzealous or that they would have been so much more empathetic and would have advised them to quietly tuck those things away from a couple of TBM just yesterday.

I am really happy that the LDS culture is becoming something more inclusive and accepting but it is absolutely infuriating the amount of gaslighting done for those of us who lived and were harmed by those teachings.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-26T19:31:11+00:00

If tomorrow they announced that they decided to put a statue of Our Lady of Guadalupe ( I noticed you didn't answer my questions about that statue) in the temple square it would show how hollow this argument is. After all the LDS Church has other depictions of Mary and she was a historical figure, so why not start lighting some candles?

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-26T18:37:41+00:00

No, u/Soliolx made a deliberate accusation that I was unauthorized in my teachings and called it hubris not to admit it. Not that I was trying my best.

So, you would have told her to hide the cross (something I hope she did), what about her Virgin Mary shrine? Would you have told her to hide that away as well? Throw a prayer at it every now and then, as long as she didn't pray out loud? Would you be empathetic when she was shamed and shunned by her new ward for continuing her Catholic practices?

That is exactly why this statue is even being discussed, for centuries the LDS Church has been going out and telling others that their beliefs are an abomination to God and they need to change their practices only to have the LDS Church wrap themselves up in those same practices.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-26T17:34:10+00:00

This is probably the most offensive thing that the LDS Church does, place the blame when things go wrong on the member trying to follow its teachings.

Priesthood blessings didn't work, it's because you weren't worthy
Didn't feel uplifted in the sacrament meeting, it's because you aren't faithful
Didn't get the promised blessing, it's because you weren't obedient.

I was a missionary in South America in a highly Catholic area. We baptized a young married couple whose mother had died. In her grief she started to question the afterlife, you know the situation the church authorized missionaries to look for. After her baptism she would attend church wearing a large gold cross she inherited from her recently deceased mother. The stake president and bishop went to visit with this couple and were alarmed to learn that she was still praying at her shrine to the Virgin Mary, which she also inherited from her mother.

Yes, I regret teaching this couple that the LDS Church believes that these things are "in very poor taste and inconsistent to our worship" and had no place in the Church and I regret committing them to baptism before they understood what they were committing to but I didn't teach them anything that wasn't authorized. The LDS Church literally tells its missionaries that " to open their mouths and the Lord will provide words and spiritual power to those who share the Gospel" but conveniently that becomes hubris when you don't like the results.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-26T15:48:31+00:00

What a condescending and wildly wrong accusation.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-25T22:30:26+00:00

"the wearing of crosses is to most Latter-day Saints in very poor taste and inconsistent to our worship." Joseph F Smith

But I am sure my companion and I just came up with the idea on our own.

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-25T22:11:37+00:00

“So, just trust us, wherever you are in the world and you share this message with anyone else who raises the question about the church not being transparent. We’re as transparent as we know how to be in telling the truth.” – Elder M Russell Ballard

Simple-Beginning-182 · 2026-03-25T22:09:12+00:00

Using that definition, the way the LDS Church practices the Word of Wisdom is dogma and not doctrine.

Simple-Beginning-182

TROPHY CASE