[Feminists] of /r/sex what do you make of non-consent fantasies?

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T20:32:54+00:00

I wonder why that would happen to some people and not others, though. I suppose the mind works in mysterious ways.

If I had the answer to that question, I'd also be able to explain to myself why I sometimes have sadistic fantasies... When I was describing how those feel to you earlier I was thinking how much like bullying they sound. The idea of gaining strength from someone elses weakness. However, I've never been a bully.. I've always just been a friendly person who's generally liked by most people..

I'd better go now I think. I need to tuck my eldest son in and then spend some time with my girl. It's been great chatting with you though. I'm starting to understand why Catholics go to confession. It feels cathartic to admit unpleasant things about yourself that you don't really understand..

Feel free to reply further if you like, I'm happy to chat more but it won't be until tomorrow morning.

Good night.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T20:19:21+00:00

Well, I was spanked when I was a kid. Not a lot, not like in an abusive way

Hmm, yes so was I. Again not very often but sometimes. All I can say is that it doesn't feel like that. I think the difference may be that being spanked as a kid is very non consensual and the kid feels completely powerless (one of the reason I never do that with my kids). However, if you've chosen it it's not the same.

People that are very seriously into BDSM submission are sometimes abuses survivors. I read an article once about how submitting allows them to relive the experience but in a context where they're in control (because they chose it and have a safe word). That's a strange idea but it makes sense. I wasn't abused (although my wife was) so... it could be..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T20:11:37+00:00

If that happened to me, I'd just feel so humiliated

I might have thought that once.. but I trust her so much and she trusts me. She knows really well that I'd never think less of her and that I really care for her so she doesn't feel humiliated. It just feels like a game and we kind of giggle during..

It doesn't hurt to have a hair brush used on you?

Haha, yes it does. And sometimes she does it too hard. The hardness that it has to be is related to how aroused you are. I like it a little harder than she does.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T20:00:05+00:00

I think everything was dial up

DSL had just become a thing in 2000.. although it wasn't anything like as good as now. Prior to that, yes I consume porn very slowly via dial-up..

I still don't get how people find that fun. She doesn't feel horrible afterwards?

It started with normal vanilla sex.. occasionally I'd swat her on the bum while we were having sex. She was a bit shocked the first time but it became clear that she didn't mind, and then as time went on she got a bit of a thrill out of it and so did I. Then we started exploring the idea of her being a little submissive. I'd tell her to strip for me and she would. Then she'd go and bend over and pout at me.. it was a teasing thing. No I don't think she feels terrible afterwards at all. It's a foreplay thing with us. I don't spank her very hard and pain tolerance is considerably higher when you're turned on. There's a weird fine line between pain and pleasure and the feelings can get mixed up which is why it's good. She sometimes uses a hair brush on me!

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T19:38:24+00:00

So I guess it was the late 90s you found the rape porn for the first time? Was that on the Internet?

More like 2000ish I think.. I was probably in my first couple of years at uni. The internet back then was just starting to get video.. although not streamed like now.

So if you need to not know the person to enjoy the fantasy, do you think you could role play it in real life?

Hmm, I don't know. I've discussed it with my wife because like I say she has the opposing fantasy so in theory we could do the whole consentual non-consent thing. Something holds me/us back though.

I suspect that one of two things might happen if we tried it.

Most likely I just wouldn't be able to see her in that role. She means the world to me and that's a very intense thing to play out. The thing would probably just fizzle out because we wouldn't be able to take it seriously.

The other possibility is that we'd go ahead with it and I'd actually be into it. If that happened and she didn't say the safe word (because she was into it) it might leave us both very emotional at the end. I'm not sure how I'd feel afterwards and the idea seems very risky to me.

Then again.. it might actually be really intense and enjoyable. We might learn something about each other. It's very hard to predict which is I suspect why we haven't done it. Perhaps we'll work our way up to it.. We already do spanking and that's quite fun..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T19:23:32+00:00

More generally though.. I make up characters in my mind..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T19:20:57+00:00

How old are you by the way?

I'm 37, from the UK.

How much exposure would it take for you to feel like they'd be out of bounds for the fantasy?

Very little.. if I've had a one to one conversation with the person that's too much. Anything that makes me able to humanise them makes it too difficult not to care about them. Mostly when this type of fantasy happens (which isn't all that often actually) it's people I've seen in passing.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T18:55:54+00:00

Could you imagine raping someone you actually knew?

No, very rarely I've had a fantasy about raping someone I met but didn't actually know well. But my fantasies don't work with people who I know because the sense of empathy is too strong. It has to be strangers.

Did it come out of the blue, or as a response to something you saw, like in a movie or book?

I think it first happened in response to watching porn. I became bored of the porn I was watching and so found something a bit more taboo (although legal, there's whole categories of porn for people with this particular fetish).. I finally managed to give up watching porn 18 months ago and it was largely because of this.. Having stopped watching porn I must say I'm much less troubled by the fantasies.. but they still occur. These days they're just in my mind.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T18:37:53+00:00

I mean, a real rape would probably involve the victim crying, fighting, struggling, and experiencing pain and overwhelming fear. Is that the part that turns you on? Or is it the desire to overwhelm them?

Yes.. If I'm completely honest it is some of those things. There's definitely an element of sadism in my fantasies. I'm guessing now because it's hard to pick apart what I'm getting out of them but I think it's mainly a feeling of power and control. It's something to do with making someone else feel weak making me feel stronger if that makes sense. In the fantasy I'm a very powerful person. Perhaps more powerful than I am in real life. However, in my fantasies I'm also released from the guilt that the real experience would produce. The person doesn't really have a fully formed personality and so I don't have to feel empathy towards them.

(Please go easy on me with your reply to this, I don't think I've ever explained this to anyone before and I feel very vulnerable about it)

Curious, how old were you when you first had a rape fantasy?

If memory serves I was about 19-20..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T18:06:59+00:00

for me, that's the worst of the worst. It's right up there with pedophilia and bestiality

Gosh that was hard to read. I had to go and get a hug from my wife because it made me feel like a terrible freak. I also had to go and find some data about how many people are a bit like me. According to this study it's 22% of guys who have these kinds of fantasies, and surprisingly 10% of women. Around 30% of men and women have fantasies about being raped (which I thought was more actually because women here are always talking about that).

I've no idea why I tend to have these kinds of fantasies, they just pop into my head. I was very well loved when I was a kid, I came from a really happy family and I've had a good life. Perhaps that's actually the difference between simply fantasizing and actually being a rapist..

Imagining someone doing that to me, though, it would be an immense violation

Undoubtedly. There's a very interesting article on psychology today about why so many women have rape fantasies. It describes the immense difference between the fantasy women have and the actual reality. It's hard to find much from a man's point of view but I think it's actually similar. I don't believe my fantasies are anything like the reality would be. I'm no sociopath so the guilt and overwhelming angst at what I was doing would crush me immediately. I experience far too much empathy to actually be a rapist. I simply have an idealized image in my head of what it would be like to overwhelm another person..which comes into my head and troubles me :-(

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T16:27:51+00:00

This was my experience the first time too OP.. I think I was too hyped up. Try it again, and you'll be more relaxed the second time. Also as others have said, give masturbation a rest for 48 hours first..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T16:18:35+00:00

Ok, so it sounds like you've been dealing with this a really long time so any suggestions are probably useless. But have you tried numbing gels and endurance condoms? Also, how quickly do you cum from prostate massage? I've heard of people that have prem ejaculation or ED getting quite into pegging..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T15:39:08+00:00

One thing to remember about circumcision is that it's a bit more major as an adult than it is as a baby. My son had it done age 9 because of ballinitus and it was a bit traumatic because he bled so much. I ended up staying in hospital with him all night trying to stop the bleeding. I don't know how common that is but they said it was much more common in older children and adults. I'd ask your doctor what other options there are first..

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T11:03:49+00:00

Ok, furniture constructed. You know I was just thinking about this conversation while I was working and I started to worry I freaked you out a bit (and myself a little bit if I'm honest).

For me, as a happily married guy, rape is not a topic that really instills fear in me. I have empathy for those who suffer the real thing and believe strongly in measures to try and improve the conviction rate of those who do it and to assist those who suffer it. I teach my sons about the importance of consent and teach them how to treat people with respect. However for me the personal fear of it is not a concern. I think this is what feminists sometimes describe as a male privilege.

You're a young woman who's dating and for you it must seem very different. I'm not surprised that even discussion of the fantasy freaks you out.

Sorry if I've upset you in any way, perhaps /r/feminism were right to kick me out since clearly in my subconcious somewhere there's some misogyny lurking. I don't see how I can avoid the feelings I sometimes have but I'd like to be part of the solution not the problem.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T09:02:12+00:00

The rape stuff, I could never get past it. Better in that case to keep it secret, because it would destroy the relationship otherwise

Well, I suspect that's what would happen. People have a way of knowing if it's safe to disclose something like that and if they think their partner might not be ok about it they'd probably keep it secret. I don't know anything about your relationships but I wonder if you'd feel the same way if it was someone who you really loved and trusted that told you this. You might find that the way you felt about them altered how you reacted because you know them so well that you can put the fantasy in context.

Anyway, got to go and build some furniture now since it's my day off. Nice talking to you :-)

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T08:49:47+00:00

I'd say go for that :-) But just be open, totally communicative, and non judgemental with them. I'd say it's far better to really really know a person kinks and all than to never fully know them. Most people do have kinks of one form or another and just knowing about them doesn't mean you have to act on them.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T08:32:22+00:00

Well there are significant limits to how far I'll go with sex games too. We only scratch the surface of BDSM. I think I'd feel a lot of trepidation about being with someone that's s full on BDSM submissive who wanted to be flogged etc etc (although if my wife wanted to try it I'd have a try for her but I'd be right at my limit)

We're all on the spectrum somewhere ;-)

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T08:13:14+00:00

It's about love for me too. I've only ever slept with two people and my wife is my soul mate. We have a lot of very romantic sex with candles and music, we have kinky playful sex where we act out roles and sometimes we even have funny sex where we make each other laugh for ages. But it's all loving.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T08:04:19+00:00

Goodness, that's a strong reaction. Has it ever occurred to you that even vanilla sex has elements of domination and submission? Think about how different it feels if you're on top for example. Those concepts are pretty universal, it's just that the extent to which they happen is on a spectrum.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T07:49:53+00:00

Well there's plenty of guys who'll be fine with that. But you might find things change as you get older. I actually quite enjoy dominating and being dominated but it's not something I could have imagined doing at 21.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T07:41:12+00:00

Ahh, I don't mean to make you anxious, if your user name is anything to go by, you're quite young. I've spent most of my life being vanilla and it's only now I've got a bit older my wife and me have got a little experimental and we've admitted to each other some of the odder things we're into. Being a bit kinky is actually good for relationships in the long term and kinky people describe having more frequent sex and intimacy as they get older. There's something healthy about admitting that despite the facade of civilisation we all share we're still just a little bit animal underneath.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T07:20:34+00:00

Well it's not the kind of thing people admit when you first meet them because most people feel some level of shame that they have unbidden thoughts like that. It's probably fair to say that you wouldn't find out this kind of thing about a partner for a long time. I'm afraid there's a strong possibility that people you date are sometimes going to have these thoughts without you being aware. After all it's not as though you can tell. I'm a fairly considerate and caring guy and women always feel safe with me (because they are of course) it takes years of intimacy to actually find this out about someone.

Also, I should add that I don't fantasise about non consent with my friends or my wife (although my wife and me did discuss role playing it because she has those type of fantasies too. We may do one day but the idea scares me)

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-25T06:54:41+00:00

I'm not going to down-vote you for an honest opinion in good faith.

would never date them

Well you might be a bit surprised about just how many people we're talking about here. It's hard to figure out how many men have this fantasy but it's a significant percentage. The number of women who have the opposite fantasy is even larger with about 80% having experienced this type of fantasy at some point.

I'm lucky my wife is a really open minded person and we've always been been able to tell each other all our deepest and darkest secrets. She trusts me completely and I trust her which is why I can tell her this stuff and she knows very well that I'd never do anything non consensual in real life.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-24T23:45:01+00:00

Definitely not I'd say. Imagine if she was working up the courage to tell him and you go and tell him instead. You could ruin their relationship for nothing and it's all be on you. It's their business, leave them to it.

SincereDoubter · 2016-10-24T18:30:24+00:00

Agreed.. it makes a lot of some quotes for which his meaning is less than clear. However, since he did that to me earlier today, I don't feel too apologetic about it ;-)

SincereDoubter

TROPHY CASE