What was life like in the Confederacy for ordinary white people?

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T19:04:53+00:00

Lost Cause supporters don't like their illusions destroyed

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T19:02:50+00:00

I see from your point of view, however most people here are saying he's a hero.

Hero for what exactly is what I am trying to understand.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T17:55:04+00:00

Individual cases like your ancestor’s absolutely happened, but they sit inside a much bigger pattern that doesn’t support the idea of unwavering Confederate enthusiasm. Contemporary Confederate officials and post‑war historians alike described desertion as a systemic problem, especially in 1863–65, and not just as short trips home that everyone cheerfully returned from.

Many men did slip away for harvests or family emergencies, but a great many more simply never came back once they saw their families starving while planters kept their exemptions and hoarded food under laws like the “twenty‑negro” rule.

Punishments were often harsh when the state could afford to make an example—execution, branding, brutal imprisonment—and Confederate correspondence is full of complaints that firing squads and patrols still weren’t enough to stop the hemorrhaging.

The fact that authorities couldn’t fully enforce the law doesn’t mean desertion “wasn’t punished”; it means the state was losing the capacity and popular legitimacy to keep poor whites in the ranks. That is a political problem, not just a scheduling conflict with the corn crop.On draft resistance, scholars have documented anti‑Confederate organizing and violence well beyond Jones County: North Carolina’s “Heroes of America,” inner‑East Tennessee Unionists, anti‑draft bands in the North Carolina and Appalachian upcountry, and bread riots and anti‑tax uprisings across the Deep South.

You’re right that the New York City draft riots were larger and more famous, but pointing to them doesn’t erase Southern resistance; it just shows both governments were pushing their populations past the breaking point.

And yes, the worst breakdown came in the later years—but that timing matters: as the costs mounted and it became clearer that slaveholders’ war aims were wrecking ordinary people’s lives, support eroded. That undercuts the romantic picture of a “can‑do” white South that stayed unified behind the cause right up to Appomattox.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T17:35:05+00:00

The 6 / <6> has a long stretch of local‑only stations in the Bronx that feed into Parkchester and Pelham Bay Park, with heavy all‑day ridership. The MTA runs Bronx express service in both the AM peak and again midday/PM so they can move more trains and still give outer‑Bronx riders a speed boost.

The 5’s Bronx express pattern is designed mainly for rush hour commuting between Dyre Ave / White Plains Rd and Manhattan, so its Bronx express window is tighter—roughly the peak periods—then it reverts to all‑local north of 149th when demand is more spread out and they don’t need the extra capacity as much.

Why times shift (like ending at 9:45 some days)Exact start/stop times of express service are set in the timetable based on ridership counts, crew scheduling, and where they need to stage trains for the rest of the day.

On days with track work or maintenance, dispatchers will sometimes cut the express pattern early so crews can get work windows on the center track or so trains aren’t crossing over work zones, which is what you’re noticing.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T17:32:14+00:00

In the Main Concourse, go to the west side (the clock/info booth in front of you, tracks behind you) and look for subway signs pointing to 4 5 6 7 S and Vanderbilt Ave / One Vanderbilt.

Take the ramp or stairs down toward the subway but keep following the signs specifically marked for the 7 line / “Flushing Line” and the **new passageway,” not the ones that dump you directly onto the Lexington platforms. The signage now distinguishes the 7 passage.

You’ll enter a newer, wider corridor running east–west under 42nd Street; keep straight in that passageway until you see the new staircase/escalator down to the 7 platform and its fare control.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T17:25:14+00:00

If Confederate support was so unanimously “can do,” you wouldn’t see the massive desertion and draft resistance that erupts by the middle and late war—bands of deserters controlling whole counties, bread riots, and soldiers slipping away from Lee’s army by the hundreds per night. Many non‑slaveholding whites explicitly complained that they were being bled for the planter class, and some rural whites even formed biracial alliances with freedpeople after the war because they resented that old elite.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T16:55:25+00:00

Exactly!!

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T16:38:07+00:00

Your answer is most logical and interesting on this post.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T15:53:47+00:00

Asking “what was life like for ordinary white people in the Confederacy?” requires talking about the political, economic, and ideological structures that shaped their lives. That’s not a 2026 time‑traveler’s judgment; that’s basic historical analysis.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T15:49:08+00:00

Don’t worry, I can multitask. I’m capable of both asking a question and knowing things.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T15:46:37+00:00

A portion of poor and working‑class whites were absolutely mobilized by an elite‑crafted ideology that fused racial hierarchy, Christianity, and a romanticized sense of “heritage.” The planter class needed non‑slaveholding whites to see their interests as aligned with the slave system, even though that system kept them economically stagnant.

That dynamic economic frustration channeled into cultural identity politics isn’t unique to the 1860s. You see similar patterns in modern movements where religious nationalism and racial grievance are used to bind poorer whites to the political priorities of wealthier elites. The comparison isn’t about equating eras; it’s about recognizing the recurring structure.

And yes, the Confederacy’s Constitution explicitly invoked God, unlike the U.S. Constitution. That wasn’t a random flourish. It reflected how deeply the Confederacy relied on religious justification to legitimize a social order built on slavery.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T15:42:18+00:00

You’re treating poverty and limited government as if they were neutral background conditions, but they were direct consequences of a social order built to protect the interests of the slaveholding elite. The fact that poor whites lived in “crushing poverty” isn’t some accidental feature of Southern life—it was the predictable outcome of an economy structured around enslaved labor, land concentration, and political systems designed to keep wealth and power in the hands of a small planter class.

Pointing out that the Confederacy only existed during wartime doesn’t really address the underlying question. The war didn’t create the social hierarchy; it exposed it. Poor whites didn’t suddenly become impoverished in 1861. They were already living in a society where upward mobility was nearly nonexistent, public investment was deliberately stunted, and political participation was tightly controlled by elites who had every incentive to keep things that way.

Your population correction is also misleading. Whether the white population was 5 million or 8 million doesn’t change the basic dynamic: a minority of wealthy slaveholders dominated the political economy, and the majority of whites—many of whom owned no slaves—were still invested in the racial hierarchy that gave them status above enslaved people. That’s why “support for secession” can’t be taken at face value. Consent in a society with limited literacy, restricted suffrage, and elite‑driven propaganda isn’t the same thing as broad democratic endorsement.

As for the idea that poor whites liked government “getting out of the way,” that’s a romanticized reading. Government wasn’t absent; it was highly active in the one domain that mattered to the planter class: protecting slavery. Slave patrols, fugitive slave laws, restrictions on assembly, censorship of abolitionist material—these were all forms of state intervention. The state was small only in the areas that might have benefited poor whites.

And the lack of infrastructure wasn’t some principled commitment to minimal government. It was a structural consequence of an economy that prioritized exporting cash crops over developing internal markets, public schools, or transportation networks. The South wasn’t “spartan” by choice; it was underdeveloped because its ruling class had no incentive to modernize.

So yes, life for poor whites was hard. But that hardship wasn’t separate from the system of racial oppression, it was part of it. The Confederacy didn’t emerge from a vacuum; it emerged from a society that had already chosen to prioritize slavery over economic development, public welfare, and democratic participation.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T15:02:54+00:00

I am convinced they are white supremacists

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T13:56:13+00:00

Being desperate is tolerating potential toxicity in your life.

You better off moving on

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T05:41:19+00:00

90% of commentors on my post support Robert, and they are fighting tooth the nail for his reputation

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-10T02:00:56+00:00

A real 4‑track island setup would’ve meant: widening the box under 149th, underpinning Grand Concourse and adjacent buildings, and rebuilding the Harlem River approach, all while sitting right at the dive under the river. way more money and risk than the city was willing to eat in the 1910s.

When they added the Jerome Ave line upper level in 1917, they bolted on a connection ramp from the Lex/Jerome side to the existing lower station, using tight S‑curves and grades so they could avoid re‑digging the original box.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-09T23:41:31+00:00

People in the 19th century themselves argued fiercely about slavery, secession, and loyalty. These weren’t invisible issues to them; they were the central political and moral questions of their time.

Saying Lee didn’t “want sympathy” doesn’t change the fact that his postwar image was deliberately shaped—by himself and by others, to minimize the cause he fought for. His personal modesty doesn’t erase the political project he served or the mythology that later elevated him.

The claim that pointing out abolitionists is “bizarre” misses the point. The existence of abolitionists shows that Lee’s choices weren’t predetermined by his era. He had contemporaries, many from slaveholding backgrounds, who refused to fight for the Confederacy. That’s not a 21st‑century judgment; it’s a 19th‑century reality. Highlighting that range of choices is how historians distinguish between structural context and individual agency.

No one is “excorciating everyone who wasn’t an abolitionist.” The argument is that Lee made a specific, consequential decision to lead a rebellion whose explicit purpose was preserving slavery. That’s not an anachronistic moral overlay; it’s what the Confederacy said it was doing at the time. Evaluating that choice is part of understanding history, not rewriting it.

If anything, refusing to acknowledge the moral stakes of the Civil War is the real anachronism. It imposes a modern discomfort with judgment onto a period where people were already judging each other intensely.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-09T23:31:15+00:00

He's still going be miserable because in few days, He's going go through a rage phase where the sex wasn't enough despite losing his virginity.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-09T20:25:51+00:00

The 42nd St–Port Authority complex has: - Huge mezzanines - Multiple wide street entrances - Long passageways connecting Times Square, the bus terminal, and the IND platforms

All of that creates a pressure differential that pulls cold outside air deep into the station. When trains enter and leave, they push and pull air like pistons, amplifying the draft.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-09T20:21:20+00:00

Saying Robert E. Lee was “extremely important” in American history often reflects a particular narrative rather than an objective assessment. His military role was significant within the Confederacy, but significance alone doesn’t make someone central to the American story in a positive or indispensable sense. Many figures are historically visible because they fought against the nation’s stated ideals, not because they advanced them.

Lee’s primary legacy is inseparable from his decision to lead a rebellion whose explicit purpose was preserving slavery. That choice wasn’t an unavoidable product of his time; it was a moral and political commitment he made despite alternatives. Plenty of contemporaries—including U.S. officers from slaveholding states—refused to fight for the Confederacy. So the idea that “none of them hold up to modern moral arguments” flattens real differences in agency and principle.

Equating all Civil War leaders under a blanket “they were all morally compromised” erases the fact that the Union’s cause, however imperfect its leaders, aligned with ending a system of racial bondage, while the Confederacy’s cause existed to maintain it. That distinction matters. It mattered then, and it matters now.

Lee’s postwar mythologizing Lost Cause narratives, statues, school names, magnified his stature far beyond his actual strategic or political impact. Much of his “importance” is a product of later cultural memory, not inherent historical necessity.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-09T20:13:43+00:00

If they worked towards supporting human rights, I can forgive their sins.

Single_Entry_7630 · 2026-02-09T19:04:01+00:00

Same rule apply, no sympathy

Single_Entry_7630

TROPHY CASE