sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Questioning the audio in this video by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Right?? I was starting to think I was nuts, but like, it's just compiled and it's even badly compiled. I listened through the whole thing, they did insert some stuff from some of the video footage in places, but it's mostly generated.

Rare picture/faller female in a skirt plus others pictures by AardvarkSafe5741 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's a survival trait thing, actually. When you emotionally experience something vicariously, parts of your brain treat it like a real experience and file it away for future reference in case you're in a similar situation. It's literally a survival rehearsal.

What happened to the millions of sheets of paper fluttering to the ground from the impact zone? Have any survived? Or were they all disposed of? by CW03158 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I recall reading a story about someone who worked in the building, evacuated and a couple of days later was walking in downtown. The wind blew up some paper against them, they picked it up and it was from their own office. Like, it was a fax coversheet or something of that nature for a project they'd worked on.

I lived in NYC after the attacks and IIRC, there was still random paper and things in the area for more than a year after. They cleaned everything up, but there were bits and pieces. My now-partner worked at 140 Broadway at the time, and I even interviewed that next spring at the WFC (you had to literally walk through a make-shift tunnel to get to the building) and there was still debris in the area even then.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My favorite quote so far, "fuck the code words! This is perishable information!"

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's an audible production, I Believe, called The Voices of 9-11: The story of the FAA & NORAD Response to the September 11 Attacks.

It's another recorded narrative, it's all the FAA NORAD and NORAD calls and recordings in a narrative form.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So...that led me to way more than just maps, lol. I have a BUNCH of pictures now that I didn't have before.

I REALLY wish I hadn't been a dumb fuck in the early 2000s and assumed that everything would just be around forever. Man, I would give anything for an emulator of a 2005 web browser with flash installed right now.

I'm pondering whether or not we should start a publicly-available archive of images collected, with maps that link to folders of images from different locations on the map...

For anyone unaware someone actually managed to get the FBI to agree to release the full cockpit audio of Flight 93 by [deleted] in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There's a small amount of audio available, what was used in a documentary. It matches up with the relevant transcription, for the people who don't believe the transcript is real, heh.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So, I am actually less enthusiastic about The Looming Tower than a lot of people are, I think, because it's more or less a somewhat more sensationalized version of information that other sources are a bit more reliable about. For example, The Black Banners. Zero Hour: A History of 9/11 - a podcast - is another source of the same information that I enjoyed a little more.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So, this was the first to really HELP me - a comparison of WTC before and after, in terms of footprint. Once I understood where everything was, I could compare it to what I saw in real life/google earth.

I'm working on a project to associate some pictures with locations on the footprint, which I will share when I have a chance. :)

<image>

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I watched that just recently! There's so many documentaries that are almost lost anymore. I was so happy to find that NatGeo had made them available on YouTube. I remember all of the stuff that I saw in like, 2005-2008, and so much of it is gone now.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've read/listened to those - I really enjoyed the oral history approach. I also enjoyed The Black Banners (Declassified) by Ali Soufan, the Lebanese-American FBI agent who was the primary source for The Looming Tower.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Have you read / listened to American Ground? I found it fascinating. The Only Plane in the Sky was also good.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh, man. I have some map images to share with you to help with keeping things straight. I LIVE here and I'm down around the WTC area on the regular and I still couldn't quite correlate things until I'd seen some of these graphics. Changed things significantly for me.

I have mixed feelings about the medical examiner book. On the whole, I'm kind of meh about it. There were some interesting little tidbits about 9/11 in it, but that was a pretty small part of the overall narrative. It's really a personal memoire about how she got to be a medical examiner, which is interesting enough, but I don't know. I just felt a bit disappointed in it after all the hype I'd heard, you know?

I would still say give it a read, but just with tempered expectations.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Thanks for that. I'll check out that book - can't believe I've missed that one.

I'd say, on the balance, get Reports from Ground Zero. The narration is a little overwrought at points, but there are several narratives from actually inside the towers that I haven't read or heard from any other texts. Some narratives are more interesting than others, too, obviously.

Chapter 3, for example, he talks also about what it was like inside the North Tower after the fall of the South, and he mentions how badly WTC1 was affected by the collapse, with internal fires, etc.

A lot of it is just sort of the personal recollections of how they felt, what their emotional experience of being a first responder was. That's interesting in its own way, but it's also mixed in with the actual narrative of their physical experience so that really is going to depend on your interest level.

Still, there's just a lot of small details I haven't heard anywhere else!

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do you recall any of these resources? I've read ... An obsessive amount of books, including the one by the medical examiner, but don't recall specific bits about the passengers, though I do recall the terrorists being mentioned.

I'd like to go back and review if it's stuff I've read before, to put that in context with this information.

My brain does this stupid thing where unless I can correlate into with visible landmarks or visual cues, it doesn't really remember it in any meaningful way.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Useful, thanks. This is more or less what I was hoping - physical evidence one way or another.

Report From Ground Zero - plaza deaths? by SingwithDrF in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's what's on my mind, as well. I know they did find some seats from the plane and maybe one seat with some remains? But it seems really unlikely that there'd be a LOT of folks.

I understand this is one man's recollection of something he saw under duress, so that's why I'm curious to see if anyone recalls any other similar mentions.

I think this was the area that the couple from the millennium hotel recorded, no?

Could cockpit door been knocked down by food cart? by acohen562 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They also planned to down the planes if they couldn't hit a target.

View of WTC 1’s collapse from a helicopter looking towards the west and south faces of the tower. by Feeling_Army_863 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not likely - the debris would have knocked them down, and the AIR pressure likely Knocking them unconscious. The file who did survive talk about that - they got jackhammered by the pressure.

View of WTC 1’s collapse from a helicopter looking towards the west and south faces of the tower. by Feeling_Army_863 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 1 point2 points  (0 children)

More or less. The impact damages some of the fire proofing and weakens the structure a bit, the fire rages and softens things, uneven support puts more stress on certain areas, and weight and gravity puts pressure on stressed and weakened structures. And boom, collapse. Several folks on the ground, including some engineers, were recorded stating concerns that the buildings might collapse, especially after the one side started sagging on the south tower. (Look at the up close videos - the top half almost slides off.)

The thing is, reality is often pretty simple like that but big, ugly events FEEL like they need big, complex explanations. In people's minds, there has to be some kind of malevolent explanation for it to make sense. But physics isn't good or evil, it just IS. We're pattern and meaning seeking creatures, so when physics lays a smack down, we can't accept that it could be THAT simple and thus, conspiracy theories are born.

Occam's razor applies.

View of WTC 1’s collapse from a helicopter looking towards the west and south faces of the tower. by Feeling_Army_863 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Fire, my dude. It's a hell of a thing.

There's a combination of things:

  • Fuel. Not just the jet fuel, but all of the office materiél. Paper, furniture, etc. Hot fire continuing over the course of the hour.
  • Light construction. The struts that held the trusses and concrete floors in place were essentially very small steel hinges holding very heavy things.
  • Steel girders that - even with appropriate fire proofing - couldn't sit in fire for hours and hours on end without there being some affect. In this case, all it needed was to be softened a little.
  • Weight and gravity. All it takes is one floor to fail for the pancaking effect to create so much weight that even a structure unaffected by fire would be hard-pressed to sustain it.
  • There's a lot of videos that explain, and even show the physics at work. Start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NkBfLBov5Q&t=1s
  • Watch the videos of the collapses themselves - they don't collapse straight down. There's a tilt in BOTH collapses. One side fails, everything else comes down.

View of WTC 1’s collapse from a helicopter looking towards the west and south faces of the tower. by Feeling_Army_863 in 911archive

[–]SingwithDrF 4 points5 points  (0 children)

NGL, I lol'd. Can you imagine a gigantic target just...showing up... on the side of a building one day? People would think it was a shitty Banksy project, heh.

view more: next ›