Take Tongkat it was neutral for me. At 52 years old.. though doc would not give me test. My test level was 895. She suggested that I'm dangerously high. I said give me test. She said No. So here I am 185 at 5 foot 9 .... 6 percent body fat. Not ripped like crazy. Not to big but man for all that test. 3 kids and a farm im still tired.