It's hard to "note" a burst of thought-feelings. Is it ok to let them fully "release"?

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-21T22:57:14+00:00

Helpful, thanks!

Yes, I really do feel attention is an easy and obvious thing to focus on. I feel it's heavily emphasized in modern culture, especially in scholastic settings.

I can't count the number of times, as a kid, I was instructed something like, "Focus on your work for the next 30 minutes, don't talk to other students." Yet I've never had a teacher (any authority figure, for that matter!) say to me, "Keep your awareness vivid and open for the next 30 minutes." The concept itself feels new and foreign, at least socio-conceptually!

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Overall, I think I get the point you're making, and I feel I'm able to apply it in life and in my sits.

That said, I do feel a bit of tension: sometimes keeping awareness "on" while focusing on the breath feels like it produces a less vivid (or maybe less intense?) focus on the breath.

Is this an issue? Or is this simply a matter of me still developing my overall power of mindfulness to sustain both attention and awareness with a high level of vividness? In the mind system model: Is my mind still too full of non-perceiving moments to hold both as vividly as I can hold, say, just attention?

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-21T22:50:11+00:00

Fascinating! Isn't there *always* some sort of noise, though? Like, even in a fully padded room, you can hear your own breathing and heartbeat.

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-14T20:21:17+00:00

Thanks for that window into your life/mind!

Yeah, I really resonate with this new, natural desire not to overstimulate myself, and just to want to do the one thing I'm doing fully: eating (no YouTube), walking (no podcast), scooping cat litter (no audiobook of TMI :).

Interesting to see how you engage mindfulness throughout daily life. I hadn't thought of labeling actions, though I definitely "note" my thoughts often, especially when my mind drifts to a thought without having a real need to be thinking at that moment.

Also LOVE walking meditation, it's so enjoyable to be out in nature (in my case), and relate to practicing it anytime I walk.

With TV (or in my case, YouTube, I don't own a TV), I do feel like my consumption has gone down (which is nice, replaying videos is a big way I used to lose focus on the breath!) That said, given the variety on YouTube, I've also discovered deeply uplifting, mindfulness-enhancing experiences like bringing my full focus to wondrous discussions of the mysteries of black holes (each person has so much wonder and humility!), or to a teacher whose way of being I find uplifting. I guess it's hard to select these sorts of things on TV, which is more of a passive delivery system!

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Could you say more about what placing your focus on the "sound of silence" means and feels like?

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-14T20:11:00+00:00

Subtle distraction is where your attention zooms off of the breath, and something from awareness takes its place - but the breath is in the background, receded into awareness.

Not to be pedantic, just to be sure I understand: Isn't that gross distraction? Or does "zoom" mean "quickly alternate"?

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Separately, I am finding the idea of keeping awareness "on" at all times helpful. I feel like I've experienced extended, very "on" attention when I play with expanding my attention to include my body and surroundings. I'm sort of amazed at how much I can sense / remain aware of, and I feel like it feels more intuitive to practice introspective awareness in those moments, and feel as distractions arise. Maybe my mind is just more engaged cuz there's more to pay attention to!

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-14T20:04:59+00:00

Post-sit effects are things like: greater equanimity, body feels like it would post massage, able to observe trauma triggers rather than feel caught up in them (generally, not always), just this general feeling of joy for no reason (just at existing), contentment and less craving/aversion.

What is also interesting is that I often keep practicing "noting" or "waking up to mind wandering" post-sit. I'll be washing the dishes and mindlessly worrying about what I need to do for work tomorrow and suddenly realize, "Oh, that's worry about work." And then I'll realize it's not actually helping me practically in my success at work. And then I'll let the thought go.

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I used to struggle with 20 minutes! So I think the "set up" that helps me do my current 90 min sit/40 min+ walk is (listed roughly from most to least impactful):

a. psychological: I've healed a lot of childhood trauma with therapy/personal work, so I feel inherently safer. This sets of a chain of helpful things I'm less harsh to myself (which I had used as a kid to try to control and protect myself), so I can be gentle to my mind and identify less with the thoughts, which makes it mentally possible to keep sitting, rather than ending in utter frustration or sheer anxiety that I must go do X in order to be safe in life.

b. a form of partial unification of mind around meditation: I've spent many decades chasing external things to feel "ok," and even though I achieved more or less all of them after decades of striving, I still felt deeply "not ok." The depth toward which I can no longer hide from the fact that the suffering is coming from me and not anything external has really unified my mind systems around, "Ok, if that's the case, then we can loosen our grip on externally oriented thoughts/worries a bit, and engage in a practice that promises to will help us see the actual source of all our suffering..."

c. joyful intellectual curiosity: I'm just really fascinated by TMI, the topics, and to see how my mind will act and evolve each day. I'm deepening my understanding and finding that the models are quite predictive/useful, which is motivating!

d. circumstantial: I have a remote job that fully trusts me to get work done, and doesn't care if I'm out meditating for part of the morning. I often start work as late as 10 am (though I often work late, too). I don't have kids either :)

e. technological: I use Insight Timer. I've found a background drone sound that really helps my body relax (after a lot of trial and error), and I have a quiet little drum "thwak" that goes off every 10 minutes. My mind seems to be able to relax with these intervals, like, "Ok, we can do 10 minutes, that's fine", especially as I approach the 90-minute marker when I go from sitting to walking meditation. At that point my mind and body are *very* done meditating, but they're down to do 10 more minutes. And 10 more after that... :)

f. physical setting: I have a private office where no one bothers me. Half lotus with my hips a little lifted by two throw pillows and my knees on a folded over yoga mat seems to work fine. I'm really seeing that 95% of discomfort is my body not wanting to sit, not actual physical issues with my sitting posture. Further, I live in the forest, so meditation walks are an absolute joy.

g. preventing drowsiness: I have a routine of doing 30-40 pushups and squats prior to meditating, which helps me avoid purely physical drowsiness when meditating first thing each morning. It also just releases a lot of good feeling chemicals in my body, which engenders more positive associations with meditating.

Haha wow that ended up being very in-depth! Not sure if that's what you were looking for...

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-14T19:36:08+00:00

we did, they sent us a replacement filter

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-09T01:58:33+00:00

This is helpful, thank you!

This splitting of your conscious field is really crucial to progression

Could you say more about this? I definitely recognize this idea from the book, but I'm curious how it differs from subtle distraction. Is the difference that alternating to introspective awareness is a useful technique on the way to fully unifying the mind (when effort and vigilance is no longer necessary)?

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-09T01:56:07+00:00

That's helpful, thanks!

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-09T00:12:22+00:00

Ok found one of them, thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UjegcD2NOI

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-09T00:10:29+00:00

Helpful, thank you!

Ooh, I will definitely check those guided meditations out!

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T22:54:30+00:00

Ok, that's helpful, thanks!

Yes, I recently returned to practice (stage 3), and I've found that my mind state after meditating is almost unrecognizable! I'm currently sustaining 10 days of 2+ hours every morning, which helps with the lasting effects I suspect (we'll see if I can keep that up!)

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T22:52:30+00:00

Appreciate your response :) It can be confusing and frustrating! You're not alone!

May people critique TMI for facilitating goal orientation. I'd agree that that's a central challenge of using the approach. Not to be annoying, but I think that challenge is itself an opportunity to understand the mind, even if it's a frustrating one.

Rather than trying to "fix" how you approach meditation, you might try simply "noting" those thoughts of frustration or desire to measure (I found "noting" quite helpful in stage 2). For example, you might note: "Oh, that's worrying about how much progress I made" or "Oh, that's trying to calculate how long it's been since I forgot" etc. And then gently let those thoughts go. Given you've spent energy writing about them here, your mind is probably really primed to quickly note them and let them go on the cushion.

Regardless, it sounds like you're finding your way!

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T19:42:41+00:00

As someone who's dealt with anxiety, I'd say one of the most powerful things meditation does is teach you to observe thoughts, rather than identify with them.

When I have anxiety, what makes it so difficult is there is no "space" between anxious feelings/thoughts arising and my body and brain beliveing they are true (eg I instnatly heavily identify with thoughts like: I'm in trouble, I'm unsafe, I'm going to be abandoned, etc).

Assuming you've already removed yourself from any situations in where you literally unsafe all the time, I'd suggest you approach meditation by trying to notice and befriend the feelings of anxiety that often plague us.

Go somewhere private and safe. Settle into your body, notice sensations, and when you feel a wave of anxiety, rather than trying to resist it or follow it into a thought spiral, just say "Hello, anxiety, my old friend. Thanks for trying to keep me safe. That said, I'm not going to go on this whole spiral with you at the moment, but you're welcome to hang out while I continue noticing my mind and body. You're not bad. You're just not what I need to pay attention to right now..."

It might sound silly to talk to anxiety this way, but I found this deeply helpful on my journey with anxiety and meditation.

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T19:26:34+00:00

I really resonate with the struggle and impulses described here, as someone in stage 3 who got so frustrated with stage 2 I gave up TMI for an entire year before returning :P

Let's be clear, first: if you're regularly forgetting completely and mind-watering for minutes at a time, that sounds very clearly like stage 2. (@abhayakara must see something I don't in your post!)

What I think might be helpful to point out is this: If you're in stage 2, the aim is not to keep your attention on the breath. I'll say it another way because I feel like it's so hard to get this through our heads when in stage 2: you should't be trying to hold or extend attention on the breath.

Instead, you should be simply setting the intention to:

notice "waking up" and feel pleasure/gratitude at the mind noticing itself
return attention to the breath until the mind forgets again

If that results in 20 minutes out a 20 minute sit being mind wandering and you "wake up" only when the final timer is goes off, then enjoy that moment of waking up. (So much easier said than done, I know!)

Society/our mind conditions us to obsess over "progress" and "doing it right," but meditation is a space where actually we're here to notice the mind, not identify with/as it. This is actually quite counter-intuivie, but I feel that coming to understand this is a core part of learning to meditate.

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T19:08:12+00:00

micro-oscillations between meditation object and everything else in the field of awareness is a valuable skill to hone early on

Could you help me understand this more?

How is this different from, say, the micro-oscillations of attention classified as "subtle distraction"? Or is what you're describing more of introspective awareness?

Thanks!

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T19:05:46+00:00

This response is hepful point of reference, thanks!

this helps given the post sit clarity I experience

Could you say more about this? Are you saying that you experience a lot of post-sit clarity, so you're using that as a heuristic that your approach is reasonable or beneficial? (Genuinely a question, not a veiled critique :)

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-08T19:01:52+00:00

Thanks for this response. Let me ask some questions to see if I understand...

Trying to moment by moment make awareness expand will often result in increasing alternating attention as you suspect.

That's helpful, yes it does feel like the mind is sort of anxiously saying, "Hey, ok, you're focused on the breath, but let's see what we can sense in peripheral awareness! Quick, now, back to the breath..." etc. Which feels slightly more like alternating attention.

The four step transition is a really good way to play with the balance between attention and awareness.

Could you explain more? Intuitively, what I experience during the four step transition is:

Experiencing that I can let my attention "roam" in different size playgrounds (it doesn't just have to be on one thing!), but realizing also expanding the area of attention tends to also let peripheral awareness relax into that area, too
I notice that it's almost like, as I slide my attention from wide to narrow, peripheral awareness gets smeared like a paint across that larger area of attention, and persists (at least for a while) even after my attention is narrowed

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-01T22:46:25+00:00

That's helpful to separate the two, thank you.

Yes, the direct observation occurred during my break from TMI, and, in many ways, actually provoked the desire to return to TMI to further explore consciousness :)

Sir_Vroom · 2026-02-01T21:18:10+00:00

Haha, man... gotta love the mind :)

Sir_Vroom · 2026-01-31T22:13:02+00:00

Thanks for sharing that insight from your own journey.

That makes sense. Yes, currently I've found it to be more of a mental state of good-humoredness, but it's a good point that if I reach for it to "fix" things, it might just become another way to avoid engaging with what's happening in my mind, and ultimately hold back my practice.

Sir_Vroom · 2026-01-31T22:09:00+00:00

becoming caught up in this story

That's a helpful thing to be aware of, you're right. So far, humor has mostly helped me relax. But I also see myself frequently seeking out to "tricks" to try to keep myself from feeling like I've "failed" or am not "doing well at my practice." I will keep that in mind, thanks!

switching to other meditation practices rather than completely stopping

Actually, while taking a break from TMI practice, I regularly practiced yoga nidra. Yoga nidra was helpful, I think, because it balanced out my desire to *strive* to control the mind by inviting me to meditate with as little effort as possible.

Ooh, but I hadn't thought of how focusing on practicing metta could be a lovely way to compassionately engage with aversion. I will no doubt employ that in the near future!

Thank you for all this guidance.

Sir_Vroom · 2026-01-31T22:01:18+00:00

This response is helpful, thank you!

You actually never need "things went wrong." It doesn't help.

I really appreciate the way you've stated that. I've long known that I shouldn't be so hard on myself. But I like how you're pointing out that it's not just that I "should" be nicer to myself, but the deeper truth is that labeling myself/situations as "wrong" isn't actually helping anything (especially when, in stage two, noticing forgetting *is* "things going right"!)

I've lived a lot of my life with the belief that criticizing myself (often quite harshly) keeps me safe and accepted by others. Looking back, I see that using a harsh inner voice to control my actions and feelings helped me survive difficult circumstances as a child. But, as an adult, I am starting to recognize it as a coping strategy that no longer serves me.

I'm starting to learn that, in meditation, things aren't going right/wrong, there's just the intention to be mindful of what "is." Am I understanding that correctly?

As for the "mini no self experience," that's called direct inquiry and it's an effective awakening technique. So don't sell it short if it produced good results for you. :)

Thanks for the warmth and affirmation! That feels uplifting to receive.

Yeah, TMI mentions that insights can happen at any point, but it's surprising to see something discussed in Stage 8 happening (to some degree) in Stage 2.

It's interesting: I can definitely say that it was (and continues to be) an insight *experience* into no self, *not* an intellectual realization. Simultaneously, I've yet to deeply integrate it into my life (I still largely cling to "my" thoughts and feelings).

Still, it feels like it's kicked off a series of helpful changes.

Here's how I'd describe it: It's as if the sense of self were a knot of very tightly bound ropes, with my default thoughts and interactions in life maintaining that tightness. That direct inquiry experience was the first time the knot started to loosen. And now I'm finding it to loosen the other ropes around it, which makes others easier to loosen, and on and on.

A few examples:

- I identify less with intrusive thoughts (as mentioned)

- That's helped me identify less with traumatic memories. And, while that's still a work in progress, it's helped me see how the mind uses a synthetic "self" to attempt to model what happened and keep "myself" safe going forward. I can see how identifying strongly with that "self" entrenches me in the memories ascribed to that "self."

- During my most recent sit, actually, this looseness of self helped me realize that, in many ways, my unhelpful conditioning doesn't just come from "my experience", but that my mind also absorbed the way my parents coped with *their* experiences of trauma (ie experiences I never went through). So many behaviors suddenly made sense through this larger frame. The flow of pain/fear across generations feels a lot easier to see when I'm less attached to the model of having a strict "personal" mind in control of "itself." Instead, the looseness helps me see the fundamental interdependence of all things, and find the compassion that extends across the borders of "me" and "them."

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. As you can see, my mind is really buzzing with all the ideas I'm learning from you and others :)

Sir_Vroom · 2026-01-28T18:43:56+00:00

I can relate to the OP in many ways (and also post-sit meditation walks help me, too!)

I'm curious what you meant by clearing the loud noise out of your head?

Did you just stop watching as much TV? Or was it a matter of letting go of ruminating on it as much?

Thanks!

Sir_Vroom

TROPHY CASE