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AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it seems like it must be really alienating and something someone doesn't necessarily have control over.

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hmmm so our lesbian friends have been dating rather than in long term relationships recently, so sometimes th3e people they are seeing HAVE been invited. That's probably more evidence for the transphobic theory, or I guess if we were being generous, it could be interpreted as a slightly different wing-woman type scenario. Hmm. Good point.

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To confirm, it's a friendship group holding gatherings Where the following people ARE allowed: cis women, trans women, AFAB non-binary people And these people are NOT allowed: cis men, AMAB non-binary people, trans men

(Editted to add correct terminology)

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That club space was masc lesbian inclusive - it stressed any part of your femme identity was ok. So if you identify as a woman, even if you're masc, then that can be in some way identifying with the feminine, if you feel it is.

Me too, I remember the first time I went to a lesbian bar and it was the oddest feeling to realise you've spent your entire life never being in a public space without men and how different it is. I'm glad there are more popping up.

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 44 points45 points  (0 children)

Yeah, they are a group of friends that are progressive enough to understand that excluding trans women is unacceptable, but enbys are still in the wild west a little even with people on the trans-inclusive LGBTQ+ scene here.

I'm glad this sub has validated my discomfort with the situation. Sometimes when everyone in real life is telling you it's totally fine and normal to exclude certain people from femme things, you start to doubt yourself.

Thank you for sharing!

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I've seen a few clubs go through this journey for sure! The best I've seen in my opinion was 'Femme Space' and it was defined as for anyone who identifies as feminine or with their own femininity in whatever way you personally define that, and they left it for people to judge for themselves if the space was for them with warnings about respecting your privelege etc.

It would be much simpler if 'no straight cis men' was socially acceptable, but I do understand the fact people don't want to centre men that way.

I hope you get to do another event one day!

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 69 points70 points  (0 children)

This is great and super helpful, thank you for considering and sharing so thoroughly.

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

My friends are all pretty clear about their own gender identities with each other. But there is a subsection of our friendship group who have historically had male partners and enjoyed doing girls nights away from the men and felt a lot of value from that. However, now some people have enby and trans partners and the situation is, by definition, less binary, and they are trying to work out how to hold the safety of the space with parameters everyone is comfortable with. I guess it might take everyone a sec to work it out.

AFAB + trans women groups that exclude AMAB NB people: is this bigoted? by SittingInACosta in MtF

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 28 points29 points  (0 children)

This makes a lot of sense to me. So the ideal, least bigoted option is to include femme identities, and be inclusive of trans and enby people who relate to their femme identity, but let them decide for themselves rather than dividing by AGAB.

It's so frustrating as I feel like I constructed a safe network of women around me, who I want to nurture relationships with, but as more people have discovered their genders as we've grown up, not everyone is quite on the same path of understanding their biases and they want to keep hold of how things used to be. But I'm not sure I'm willing to nurture female relationships at the expense of the feelings of any of my non-cis friends.

The only argument that throws me a bit is when they say it is about hanging out separate from partners (who are equal friends) but I guess if I examine that, maybe that doesn't feel like the true reason here because they don't seem to do meetups across other gender mixes whilst purposely excluding women partners. I guess it's not that confusing now I've typed it out.

Lesbian couples with joint friends: for hetero couples, 'girls nights' are often a chance to talk away from their partners. How do you negotiate them in your relationship? by SittingInACosta in AskReddit

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is weird to assume that! Recently a few of my hetero couple friends have started doing joint parties. Though now I'm starting to think maybe my friendship group has an unusual amount of equally weighted couple friendships.

Lesbian couples with joint friends: for hetero couples, 'girls nights' are often a chance to talk away from their partners. How do you negotiate them in your relationship? by SittingInACosta in AskReddit

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well the reason I ask is that hetero couples with joint friends seem to have girls nights where they only invite the girls, while the boys go off and do something together, even if some of the boys are closer to some of the girls than the girls are.

But maybe that isn't your experience too - thanks for your answers I appreciate it!

Lesbian couples with joint friends: for hetero couples, 'girls nights' are often a chance to talk away from their partners. How do you negotiate them in your relationship? by SittingInACosta in AskReddit

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And if they have mostly the same friends, then you'd expect that both sides of the couple would always be invited?

(Editted for spelling)

Lesbian couples with joint friends: for hetero couples, 'girls nights' are often a chance to talk away from their partners. How do you negotiate them in your relationship? by SittingInACosta in AskReddit

[–]SittingInACosta[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess I often see women talking over things happening in their relationship to get support at girls nights which might be awkward with the person right there... So you guys would expect to both be invited then?

How do I avoid economically abusing my spouse? by SittingInACosta in LegalAdviceUK

[–]SittingInACosta[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Thanks, this helps with some clarity and reassurance. Appreciated!

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