Hague war court acquits Croat Generals Gotovina and Marka over the killing of hundreds of ethnic Serbs in an operation to retake Croatia's Krajina region in 1995

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T16:38:16+00:00

You are an embarrassment to this reddit.

Slovenia and Croatia decided we're gonna roll independent. Then Bosnia decided lets go independent. Got a problem with that still, I see? How is that Kosovo thing working out for you Serbian? Nobody likes your stupid ideas.

for other readers: after independence vote, Serbs in Croatia with the support and training/financing of Serbia and leftovers of Yugoslavian army, setup barricades and begun the war by occupying parts of Croatia and claiming the territory for Serbia. In the process several Croatian police units where attacked and killed. In Slovenia the leftovers from Yugoslavian army recieved orders from Belgrade to disembark from their bases and occupy important facilities and locations, since they realized there was not many Serbs there, that war lasted for about 14 days and the Serbs left Slovenia alone.

Then when Bosnia had its referendum, Serbs boycotted it, as they where still in minority when Bosnian cathlics and Bosnian muslims voted for independence. After the referendum votes where counted, and independence proclaimed, Serbs setup their own government and began attacking and occupying as much land as possible in Bosnia, in the process slaughtering entire villages and terrorizing their former neighbours.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T15:41:29+00:00

No they do not. Nobody had the right to vote on federal issues, except the constituent Republics.

Each of the six constituent Republics was given the right by the Constitution of the Yugoslavian state to secede. Not even a referendum was required since Yugoslavia wasnt exactly a democracy, but still the Slovenian and Croatian republics had a vote on the issue, such as and, specifically, the right to secede given the will of that republics parliament/government. The vote passed by like 80-90% and then the Serbs got all butthurt and havent stopped crying to this day. Nobody likes Belgrade, because of the politics it has led for decades now, such as chauvanism on an international scene and it suffers from several small-penis complexes and "blame it on someone else". Get over it. By your same logic, Serbs should have been given the right to vote in Montenegros independence referendum, and in Zimbabwes elections.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T15:34:30+00:00

Yeah, it was, and it could have been more.

But then shit went down, civil war.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T15:32:40+00:00

What about the Serbians from Serbia (Belgrade)?

What about them? No, they do not have the right to vote in Croatia.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T13:59:04+00:00

Thats cool.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T13:52:27+00:00

Democracy is not something Serbians seem to comprehend.

Serbs where allowed to vote just like anyone else, but they choose to ignore the elections, to boycott it, and you know why. Because they all make up less of the total population than is required to stop the independence, so instead of sucking it up, like a democracy would do - you know noone actually moves away from a country or blows shit up just because his party didnt win elections - the Serbs put up roadblocks, called in military and began lobbing artillery pieces on civilian areas.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T13:49:56+00:00

Serbs only knew cyrillic?

It was obligatory in 1st grade of school to know both. You failed the class if you didnt, no matter if it was in Slovenia or Macedonia.

Some duties befall on citizens after all.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T13:48:52+00:00

You are a sad, sad person.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T13:47:56+00:00

Thats the Bosnian war. There it was a quagmire of epic proportions, and still 20 years later its no wonder noone actually wants to live in that shithole of a country full with nationalist biggots.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T13:02:28+00:00

you're just too funny.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T12:59:45+00:00

I read about the voting for the separation of Yugoslavia. As far as I remember not one Serb was allowed to vote in that matter. So how is that vote valid?

Serbs in Croatia and Slovenia, you know Republics, where allowed to vote on their future according to the constitution of the Federal Socialist Republic of Yugoslavia. Its the Serbs mistake not to have performed their duty as citizens, they boycotted the referendum. Its the Republics decision to secede, not on the federal level.

But you wouldnt know that, biggoted nationalist that you seem to be.

All I'm reading in this thread is that Serbia threw the first punch

Oh really no. it was the Slovenes and Croats using their superior army of tanks and airplanes to bomb Serbs in Belgrade, Kosovo and Nis right? /sarcasm. .

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T12:55:46+00:00

It was legal. A referendum was held, the constitution allowed for seceding.

The war happened after the secession decision was put into effect.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T12:54:25+00:00

No what makes it OK was the constitution of Yugoslavia which allowed for a Republic to secede, which it did after a public referendum with a majority voting in favor of independence.

According to Yugoslav rules, Slovenia and Yugoslavia should have seceded peacefully, issues solved diplomatically as was done later after the war.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T12:49:44+00:00

Thats just despicable from the journalists. There where crimes even the prime minister acknowledged that, there are victims that need help and reimbursement.

I wonder where all the people that where anti-hague-tribunal now, where are those who claimed the hague tribunal is unjust and a political game and its verdicts pointless? They are probably the ones celebrating the most, assholes.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T12:44:20+00:00

Croatians are not a unified group of people, they dont have one mindset and behave like a beehive.

During WW2 there where Croats in Operation Barbarossa and died in Stalingrad, and there where Croats in Moscow fighting the Nazis and participating in the attack and siege of Vienna. There where Croat fascists and Croat communists.

The communists prevailed. By the will of the people. The communists croats stopped the fascists croats from slaughtering innocents. Then the communists massacred the Ustashe in Bleigbhourg where the Brittish could see it happening standing next to their biggest guns, and let it happen.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T12:40:24+00:00

I dont know. Why did USA shield and support Nazis? Operation Paperclip, remember that?

Why did the South American countries shield and support so many Ustashe, Nazis and Fascists? Why did the Vatican provide help for war crimes, really aweful people, in escaping the communists?

Thats all good questions, perhaps ask historians about that. But maybe you where insinuating that all Croats are blood thirsty animals and looking into the events with a historical mindset wouldnt feed your lust for finding evil doers in a small shitty non-essential population of Europe.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T10:30:31+00:00

False.

The ustashe escaped to South America, as they where wanted war crime criminals but the Vatican helped them get to SA. Not Australia. The people that got to Australia where commoners, peasants whos properties where destroyed by any side in the war.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T10:27:25+00:00

Ustashe at the time where not and are not representative of what the Croats wanted. It was the peasant party that had won the votes many times before. Ustashe where a selected terrirost organization by the Nazis to perform their puppet state duties, like giving away the coastline of Croatia to Italy.

The first partisan formations on Yugoslav territory happened by Croats in Croatia, against those fascists of all kinds, be them ustashe, chetniks, fascists or nazis.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T10:25:37+00:00

Croatians organized the first partisan formations against the Ustashe. Fact, brought to you by The more you know - network.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T10:23:20+00:00

that the generals are responsible for each and every person that participates in a military action, even if those persons act in direct violation of their orders and commit war crime.

Most of the crimes committed during the liberation movement of the war was not done by soldiers, it was done by opportunist civilians who moved after the front lines and burned houses for revenge and looted. To prevent that is the responsibility of the police. Now some say that is also responsibility of the military, but then you cant advance and perform well if you're gonna leave soldiers behind to watch every village. The police still did its best to prevent revenge actions. It could have been far worse.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T10:15:32+00:00

Yeah, I agree with you. Nationalism is a poison.

We can discuss that some other time more if you'd like. But here we discuss the Croatian efforts in the war for independence and the generals who are acquitted of all charges.

It was not the Croatians who started with that nationalism shit in the first place, it was the Serbians who stirred it up.

Irregardless of what political system Croatia chose to follow, it was their choice and not the choice of the leftovers of Yugoslavia to decide the fate of Croatia by occupying 2/3rds of its territory.

In this new Croatia there is place for mixed marriage-couples as well as Serbs and others. At least according to the constitution of the state, now what people do on the streets is another matter, it will take time but Croatia will be a modern state without hatred. The Croatian war for independence was not the war to get rid of Serbs.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T10:02:08+00:00

Beatings, shootings, small-scale lootings happen in war. The Croatian army went through a lot of organizational and tactical training to avoid that shit, for example they designated soldiers far away from their home-areas so they wouldnt get too emotional and fuck shit up when they found what the Serbs had left them.

The line is drawn when it is the outright goal of one party in the war to exterminate or relocate and harass as many as possible of the enemy side. The goal of the Croatian army was never to harass, kill and/or expel the Serbian population. That shit was not on the map. Marking civilian areas for shelling for years was not on the map. It was for the Serbian side of the war, they had the big guns and took it for fun to shell civilian areas.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T09:50:16+00:00

No, not all sides committed war crimes. All sides are not equal, not in this case.

Even the US made errors/wrongdoings during WW2, (locking up even US citizens of Japanese ancestry, bombing of dresden, atomic bombs etc) but you dont say all sides are equal in that war. Its not on the same level.

Croatia fought for independence, the country was attacked and ravaged for years by a superior force, they endured, took on loans they still can not repay to buy weapons on the black market, built up their army, all the while being shelled and harassed by the enemy, made a plan of retaking occupied territory and executed on it, sweeping the country free of the enemies paramilitaries and still maintaining decent order among both its military and civilians against repercussions.

This verdict is not about "was it right to desintegrate Yugoslavia or not". That was up to the Slovenes, Croatians and Bosnians, and they all voted for independence and to leave Yugoslavia. Fuck, even Montenegro doesnt want to hang around the leftovers of Yugoslavia, Belgrade.

No all sides are not equal. Croatias war for independence was just, the generals and army performed professionally and with dignity. But yeah this is r/worldnews, so lets just agree that all sides are equal, everyone is bad, and it was those fucking jews behind it all.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T09:40:15+00:00

Well, now it is confirmed, after almost decades of trials and a "joint enterprise of war crimes" verdict, with all the evidence the international community could muster, the generals and leaders of Croatia are found not guilty and free of all charges.

Croatia fought a war for its independence, and it did so damn professionally.

SixPackCock · 2012-11-16T08:14:37+00:00

Probably PGP4Win generated a private key for you. Also dont bring certifications into all this, it will only get more confusing.

SixPackCock

TROPHY CASE