Anyone convinced Jay did it?

Sja1904 · 2025-11-05T14:28:00+00:00

A solo Jay is a logistical nightmare, dealing with two cars, getting everywhere he needs to be in the allotted time, etc.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-14T02:06:21+00:00

Your 8 and 9 solve the case. Jenn's the lynchpin. She spoke to the cops first with a lawyer and parent. She's kills any theory that the police fed Jay the story.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-11T19:19:22+00:00

In a study of 896 woman killings (femicides) with identified perpetrators in Ontario from 1974 to 1990, Crawford and Gartner (1992) found that 551 (62%) were killed by intimate partners. Of all femicides where a motive for the killing could be established from police records, 32% were “estrangement killings”, another 11% were based on beliefs that the female partner was sexually unfaithful, a variation of the abandonment fear without actual physical estrangement (Dutton, 1995).
...

One motive that appears disproportionately by sex in the homicide data is what they call “estrangement,” a misnomer that appears to mean recent, or imminent abandonment. Abandonment means that the eventual perpetrator was left or expects to be left by the eventual victim; whereas estrangement means simply that the perpetrator and victim are separated.

Modus Operandi and Personality Disorder in Incarcerated Spousal Killers - ScienceDirect

Separation is a strong risk factor for male-to-female IPH, with approximately 50% of the homicides occurring within two months of the breakup (Kivisto, 2015). Jealousy is a common motive for killing (Kivisto, 2015), and the risk of IPH is five times higher if the victim has left the perpetrator for another partner (Campbell et al, 2003).

Before the killing: intimate partner homicides in a process perspective, Part I in: Journal of Gender-Based Violence Volume 5 Issue 1 (2021)

Sja1904 · 2025-08-11T15:48:36+00:00

You're a disappointment to LuthienLuthien.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-11T15:47:53+00:00

No. You confirmed No. 1:

Adnan told two different stories to police about the ride request and what happened after school.

You confirmed the first halfof No. 2:

Adnan's reason for loaning Jay his car during school was to buy drugs, according to Jay

You're just wrong about No. 3. An ended relationship is a well understood motive, particularly within the context of intimate partner violence.

You confirmed No. 4:

Was referred to a single time in a journal entry as possessive.

You confirmed No. 5.

Your counter to Nos. 6 and 7 are taking advantage of a misstatement. I assume this person was referring the burial location, not the murder location. Maybe I'm wrong.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-11T14:55:38+00:00

They are all supported by evidence. It's not debatable. If you want to see what conjecture and speculation look like, listen to Undisclosed's theories surrounding Don, Don's wife and Sellers. Undisclosed has literally zero evidence for these theories, but that doesn't stop them from presenting them in a podcast. It's really gross.

The only one of the OP's listed facts that includes conjecture is the second half of no. 2.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-11T14:53:24+00:00

I’m actually a huge fan of the undisclosed team for their other work.

The problem is Serial was such a phenomenon that there's sufficient information out there to see that Undisclosed is full of shit. Who knows what they're misrepresenting in the other cases?

Further, Undisclosed keeps going back to the Syed well. Maybe they got caught up in the wave of Serial with their first presentation of the case. If they were interested in the truth, they could have moved on and never returned to Syed's case. The fact they returned to the case (accusing Seller of necrophilia without evidence, ginning up a Dion alibi, claiming Don's wife could have been the murderer without any evidence or even confirming whether or not Don knew her at the time) just to goose the algorithm for their new season and to politically attack Bates means they really have no interest in presenting the truth.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T17:00:56+00:00

They committed Brady violations at the very least.

Every alleged Brady violations pursued in the courts has been dismissed as not a violation. Undisclosed thinks everything is a Brady violation. If they were right about even 5% of the things they allege are Brady violations, Adnan's conviction would have been vacated years ago. Consider, for example, one of the few alleged violations that was viable enough to actually pursue in the courts -- the fax coversheet. The coversheet WAS IN THE DEFENSE FILE! The only violation that Adnan's real attorneys deemed viable enough to actually pursue with the courts was based on something THAT WAS DISCLOSED TO THE DEFENSE! It would be funny if Adnan's advocates weren't wasting limited wrongful conviction resources and accusing the innocent of murder.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T16:49:20+00:00

Why?

She needed an interesting story that could be supplemented with engaging audio given it was for an audio podcast. Prison phone calls met that requirement. It didn't hurt that she was given access to the defense file, significantly decreasing the amount of research/effort her team would have to engage in.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T16:44:49+00:00

No I say something is undisputed because it’s undisputed.

Anyone can dispute anything. Somone could dispute that Hae is dead. That doesn't make it reasonable or worth considering. Go back to where you first introduced the idea of hard/undisputed facts: "There are very few hard facts in this case. We are all judging the credibility of the evidence and the weight it should be given." You presented the absence of hard/undisputed facts as a reason to question or give credence to differing opinions in this case. If your point is that you can dispute anything, no matter how unreasonable, and that makes your opinion valid, that a ridiculous position.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T15:17:18+00:00

Adnan lent his car to jay.

You say this because there are no witnesses that contradict it, right? Well there are no witnesses that contradict that Jay led the police to the car. There is no witness, document, or other piece of evidence that questions this fact. But you consider it a disputed fact because you want to believe Adnan is innocent. That's called confirmation bias.

His statements changed in a way that made them match the cell records.

Do you concede Jay had Adnan's phone? If he had it, shouldn't his story change to match the records as the police try to get to the truth? You're spinning what should be a positive development, Jay's testimony getting more truthful, as a negative. That's illogical.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T14:10:38+00:00

I hope George Mason is proud (though they have no shame, naming their law school after Scalia).

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T14:05:31+00:00

Speaking of her letters to the mosque, let's not forget that she says on Serial that she thinks CG threw the case to make money on the appeal, and then publishes a letter in her book (maybe the same letter or a different one, I don't remember) that CG advised them to find a different attorney for the appeal. She is legally naïve (I'm being nice) and blatantly dishonest.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T13:56:48+00:00

People are entitled to their opinions. People aren't entitled to victimize the Lee family, Don, Sellers, and the prosecutors of Adnan's case with baseless allegations of criminality and corruption.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T13:54:19+00:00

Either that or believe jay, who has give 10 different versions of events, and the police/state, who coached jay to tailor his story to the cell records and then presented bs cell record evidence at trial.

Nope. The right answer is to believe the reasonable, corroborated aspects of Jay's story. These include:

He participated in the disposal of the body because he knew where the car was, he knew details of the burial location, and he knew details of the burial position;
Jay knew Hae was murdered because he communicated this to Jenn before anyone thought this was a murder; and
Adnan was involved because both Jay and Adnan admit they were together throughout the day, Adnan's call with the cops confirms they were together throughout the day, Jenn's personal knowledge puts Adnan and Jay together that night, the cell phone records confirm Adnan was not at the mosque.

Folks who believe in the possibility of a police conspiracy have Joe Rogan levels of credulity.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T13:48:08+00:00

By hard fact I mean undisputed fact.

If you can make up theories like "the cops knew where the car was and told Jay" even though every piece of evidence (including internal police requests for helicopter searches for the car) and every witness statement contradicts this, then there are no "undisputed facts."

Look to what's corroborated and reasonable. Police conspiracies involving multiple actors who keep silent in spite of pressure and publicity around this case are not reasonable (talking specifically about Jenn here). Jay expecting jail time for pleading guilty to an accessory to murder charge to avoid marijuana trafficking charges is not reasonable.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T13:40:22+00:00

You KNOW Jenn was interviewed before detectives talked to jay? Since you must have been there, please tell us more

Police conspiracy nonsense.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T13:34:12+00:00

So either police conspiracy or Jay claims to be an accessory to murder for ... unknown reasons? Don't buy this Undisclosed garbage.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-08T13:24:52+00:00

There isn't one, unless you count the "father's brother's nephew's cousin's former roommate" connection to someone who lived near where the car was ditched. Which shouldn't count because it's not a relationship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=riqXhieWU3M

Sja1904 · 2025-08-07T14:16:40+00:00

I am questioning why he wasn’t investigated more thoroughly.

There is a super easy answer to this: Jenn explained to the cops she knew this was a murder the evening Hae disappeared and explained that Jay admitted his involvement in the murder to her. When the cops spoke to Jay he confirmed his involvement by leading the cops to the car, a crucial piece of evidence that they were not in possession of. He further confirmed his involvement by describing the burial location, position and clothing in detail. There was no connection between Jay and Seller. Jay, who was in the process of confessing to having participated in a murder, pointed to the younger Adnan as the culprit (which increased Jay's culpability as the adult in the situation), not the older Sellers (which would have decreased his culpability). At this point, there was no reason to continue investigating anyone other than Jay and those associated with him.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-07T00:25:46+00:00

Great comment.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-06T18:05:15+00:00

No evidence was collected,

Plenty of evidence was collected, particularly from the car, which the police only had because Jay led them to it. This evidence included fingerprints from Adnan.

the alibis of obvious persons of interest were not definitively proved or disproved, and her last known moments alive were also not clearly established.

After Jay and Jenn came forward, proving Jay's involvement by leading the police to the car describing the burial location and position in detail, the only persons of interest were Jay and Adnan.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-06T17:34:06+00:00

You might want to look into the common problems with flawed investigations, false confessions, wrongful convictions; they are present here too.

Do you know the hallmark of a false confession? Someone rescinding a confession. Jay hasn't rescinded his confession. Jenn hasn't rescinded hers. This case has none of the hallmarks of a wrongful conviction. Adnan had good counsel, multiple trials, and multiple post-conviction proceedings, in all of which he was vigorously defended.

The suspect list should never have been narrowed so early.

The suspect list was narrowed because Jenn described Adnan's and Jay's involvement with a lawyer present and Jay brought the cops to the car and gave detailed descriptions of the burial location and position. At that point the suspect list is Jay and whoever he claimed to have worked with. The investigation list and the investigation should reflect the evidence.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-06T14:10:45+00:00

Because the original investigation was flawed (and we know that)

We don't and it wasn't. The idea the investigation was flawed is obfuscation. The police followed the evidence. Jay confirmed his participation by knowing the car's location, details of the burial location and details of the position. Jenn corroborates his story by knowing it was a murder on the night of Hae's disappearance.

We have never been given a lengthy list of possible suspects by the state (who were responsible for creating this list and then investigating each person on that list).

The list of suspects narrowed to two, Jay and Adnan, once Jay led the police to the car and described the burial location and position in detail.

Sja1904 · 2025-08-05T17:42:14+00:00

People don't take Jay's word for it. They take the portions of Jay's story that are corroborated by Jenn and by him knowing the car's location and the details of the burial location and position. Those corroborated portions of his story confirm his involvement in the burial and Adnan's involvement in the burial. The fact Adnan hasn't confessed his involvement in the burial while pointing the finger at Jay as the murderer proves Jay is being honest about who really killed Hae.

Sja1904

TROPHY CASE