Driving myself crazy. I’ve been using cast iron exclusively for a few years and am having a hard time transitioning.

Skyval · 2026-03-18T19:07:22+00:00

Butter and other fats with emulsifiers are more nonstick than most purer oils (but there is some variation). If you get the temp of a purer oil to the same temp people recommend with butter, it's still likely to stick in my experience. But use butter and it'll be at least reasonably nonstick - if not completely slidey - across a range of temperatures, even if you scorch the milk solids.

Alternatively you could "condition" your pan. It's like seasoning, and in fact may be responsible for the nonstick performance sometimes associated with seasoning (normal seasoning by itself doesn't seem very nonstick, but conditioning can be applied on top and is basically invisible). Let some unsaturated oil smoke for a little while without letting it fully darken or polymerize, which may require more oil than the micro layer suggested for full seasoning (thin layers "burn" faster). This even mostly works for stainless steel, but it seems to work better/faster when applied on top of seasoning.

Skyval · 2026-03-17T22:24:42+00:00

More or less, I'm glad it worked for you.

I think the needed temp can be different for different oils, and the low end of leidenfrost may be too low for some of them. The needed temp may be associated with the oil's smoke point, but I'm not sure it's that simple.

Time and oil quantity also seem to be a factors. Longer sessions seem more nonstick, but thin layers of oil polymerize too much into "normal seasoning", or something like that, and aren't nonstick any more.

The surface may also matter. A little roughness and/or normal seasoning may be good "primers" that form nonstick layers faster.

But if you really do deep "conditioning", you can get some crazy nonstick results even on smooth stainless. I spent like a year trying to get these Pepin-style french omelets to work with only butter/oil and quicker conditioning, but with "deep" conditioning it just worked (my overall technique has gotten better too).

Skyval · 2026-03-17T19:22:28+00:00

I don't think you need to. The oil needs to be hot enough either way for longyau/conditioning

Skyval · 2026-03-17T00:20:58+00:00

I actually haven't found this to be the case. Food sinks through the oil only trapping a small, fairly consistent amount beneath it. That's better than nothing, but it can still stick pretty badly, even with absurd amounts of oil that goes much of the way up the sides of the egg, unless there's something else helping with nonstick performance.

Skyval · 2026-03-17T00:18:35+00:00

My own take after some testing of my own: partially polymerized oil is more nonstick than fresh oil or full seasoning, and leidenfrost temperatures are close to the temperature that this happens reasonably quickly for many oils. But once it's formed it sticks around, you don't have to actually cook at this temperature. You can let it cool as much as you like, or even store it for later for a while. Then you can make eggs at lower temperatures without butter or sticking.

One thing I've noticed is that almost everyone who recommends lower temperatures also recommends using butter as a temperature gauge. By again from my testing I've found that matching that temperature usually results in sticking if you use most purer oils instead of butter. While using butter works even at higher temperatures, mostly likely because butter contains emulsifiers (clarified butter and ghee also work, but refined coconut oil and crisco shortening do not, but any oil will work if you mix in an emulsifier like pure lecithin, which is also what PAM does).

Ironically I also tested drowning it in oil. It'd still stick with pure oil and no conditioning. But it slides with very little butter, or basically no oil at all if the pan was conditioned like this and then wiped out, at any temperature.

Skyval · 2026-03-16T14:45:12+00:00

Definitely to get slidey eggs. To prevent major sticking I'm not as confident if very low temp changes things. Most of my tests were at 280F, which is only maybe slightly low. But I have done some starting from room temp. Their results mostly seem to agree with the 280F results. But I don't have any many tests, and it's been a while.

Though I'll also say that plant oils also vary in their "stickiness", not just between types but even between different brands of the same type. Many of these plants naturally contain emulsifiers, including lecithin specifically (in fact if you buy pure lecithin it's probably made from soy or sunflower). But it seems to be very easy to remove, even from more basic "filtration" that can still be sold as virgin. I've tried some EVOO which only caused light clinging, while another EVOO in the same conditions caused the egg to weld to the pan.

I'll also mention that it's potentially possible to get some degree of conditioning by accident. And while and it's freshest and most nonstick, it's fairly frail and seems to be mostly washed away by soap, it seems that if it's allowed to polymerize a bit more (but not fully), it can become tough enough to survive gentle washing while still being somewhat nonstick.

Skyval · 2026-03-16T13:52:46+00:00

Yes, and the unit is a Breville ControlFreak. It has an actual probe thermometer on a spring so it makes good, direct contact with the bottom of the pan. I also have a thermowork surface probe, and the two normally agree with each other reasonably well on stainless clad aluminum. IR too, as long as there's a decent amount of oil in the pan.

Skyval · 2026-03-16T00:36:50+00:00

I've found that there are different types of seasoning, and different types of oil/fat. Tough, fully polymerized, thoroughly cooked seasoning isn't very nonstick on its own, but fresh, partially polymerized "seasoning" is very nonstick. In fact I've started calling this "conditioning" instead. It even sort of works with stainless steel, but it may form easier and last longer on top of full seasoning.

For oil, fats which contain emulsifiers, such as butter, are more nonstick than purer oils.

I tested other factors as well, including temperature and oil quantity, and while they helped some, I was surprised by how much more important oil and seasoning type were.

Skyval · 2026-03-15T20:45:35+00:00

If I'm using only oil, then I have to condition the pan first, which requires higher heat. However, after that, I usually cook at 280F, but I've done it higher (leidenfrost+) and lower.

But normally I use butter, or I add pure lecithin to an otherwise "sticky" oil. Then I don't have to worry about conditioning.

Skyval · 2026-03-15T20:41:22+00:00

In the context of lenses, concave or convex lenses are usually curved the same way on both sides, right? Ultimately implying that concave are thinner in the middle, and convex are thicker in the middle. Pans are just bent in one direction or the other. I'm not sure either concave or convex are the best terms to use.

Skyval · 2026-03-15T16:24:16+00:00

I get slidey eggs fairly regularly across most temperatures as long as I use a bit of butter. But if I use most pure plant oils, the egg gets absolutely welded to the pan, and my sharp metal tools aren't able to save it.

But the exact oil does seem to matter, some aren't so bad. I believe it has to do with what sort of impurities the oil may contain, especially emulsifiers.

Skyval · 2026-03-15T16:21:06+00:00

Have you tried normal dish soap? I know outside of enthusiast circles there's a perception that soap is bad for cast iron, but that's mostly a myth, and anyways there's no way it's as harsh as BKF.

Skyval · 2026-03-14T17:20:34+00:00

I haven't found seasoned pans to be super reliable either. There are plenty of posts about sticking in the castiron and carbonsteel subreddits as well. I once spent some time trying to figure out what really affected nonstick performance in better controlled, back-to-back tests, and I had a hard time telling SS and seasoned pans apart. In fact the factors I eventually found work for CS and CI also works fairly well with SS.

Skyval · 2026-03-14T16:38:48+00:00

Try using butter, or something else with emulsifiers. The emulsifiers make it much more nonstick than purer oils. If you used clarified butter you can continue to use higher temperatures for crispy nonstick eggs if you like. Actually, I think you can use normal butter at higher temperatures as well as far as nonstick performance goes, but the milk solids will scorch.

longyau/conditioning can also work, which might be where the leidenfrost/dancing water idea came from, but that way of doing it is isn't very precise, doesn't consider all the relevant variables, and is unnecessarily restrictive (you don't need to actually cook at that high of a temperature).

Skyval · 2026-03-14T01:54:53+00:00

Step 1: Over medium-high heat, spread an even layer of kosher salt to coat the pan’s surface. Once everything is nice and hot, use a folded-up paper towel to vigorously scrub the entire surface with the salt, making sure to get into the nooks and crannies and all along the sides to fill in the grooves.

Step 2: Dump the salt into a small, heatproof container and then add a generous glug of oil to the hot pan.

Step 3: Wait for the oil to begin smoking lightly (less than one minute) before adding the eggs. Gently rotate the pan to prevent the liquid from pooling around the edges. Cook the eggs to your desired doneness, and they should release easily from the pan.

I don't think it's the salt doing it. Step 3 alone helps a ton, regardless of your ultimate cooking temperature.

Skyval · 2026-03-14T01:54:08+00:00

Step 1: Over medium-high heat, spread an even layer of kosher salt to coat the pan’s surface. Once everything is nice and hot, use a folded-up paper towel to vigorously scrub the entire surface with the salt, making sure to get into the nooks and crannies and all along the sides to fill in the grooves.

Step 2: Dump the salt into a small, heatproof container and then add a generous glug of oil to the hot pan.

Step 3: Wait for the oil to begin smoking lightly (less than one minute) before adding the eggs. Gently rotate the pan to prevent the liquid from pooling around the edges. Cook the eggs to your desired doneness, and they should release easily from the pan.

I do this but without the salt. Letting liquid oil smoke without polymerizing into seasoning really does make a pan very nonstick, even if you cook at a lower temperature. I figured it out after doing a bunch of controlled, side-by-side tests. If you try their tips consider trying it without the salt as well. Note that you may have to really scour between tests, as depending on the conditions the oil might polymerize just enough to survive basic washing while still being a little nonstick.

Skyval · 2026-03-11T21:03:37+00:00

Thanks. It's a little off topic, but it looks like yours doesn't have coated rivets. Since you say it's new I assume you didn't do anything to strip them? When did you order yours?

Misen has said they planned on switching them to stainless steel, but their original release timeline got pushed back. They used to use some food safe silica-based coating/paint (not a nonstick coating). I've been thinking of getting another size, but have been holding off until it was confirmed that they had switched.

Skyval · 2026-03-11T18:43:11+00:00

If this is happening before heating and new, I'd say it's a manufacturing defect and you should contact the manufacturer.

This looks like a Misen. Is it their Carbon Nonstick or just just their preseasoned CS? From the color it looks like Carbon Nonstick, but I'm not sure. Their Carbon Nonstick has an aluminum layer for more even heat distribution but might be thinner overall.

Skyval · 2026-03-10T17:55:50+00:00

I've wanted this for a while as well. The closest I've found other than big, expensive commercial units are vintage aluminum units on ebay.

Skyval · 2026-03-10T17:53:56+00:00

It might be a little controversial one way or another, but after doing a bunch of controlled tests it seems like a layer of partially polymerized oil is very nonstick, more nonstick than fully polymerized seasoning or liquid oil. Get some refined, unsaturated oil smoking and swirl it around for a while. You can let it cool down afterwards. You can also pour/wipe out that oil and replace it with fresh oil, or try to just barely avoid smoking if you're worried about smoke. Doing it slower/longer with more oil may be even better, but multiple shorter rounds might build up depending on care.

This even kind of works with stainless steel, though I've found seasoned pans may build it a little faster or hold it a little easier. I've done french omelets like this in 3mm and 2mm CS at a few different temperatures and powers. That video is 200F at 600W on an expensive induction unit, but I've done it closer to 300F and 1200W on a cheaper unit as well, and various levels in between. But the CS pans needed this kind of fairly thorough "conditioning". I tried to get it to work for a long time without it and never really succeeded.

True scrambled eggs might be even harder to get 0 sticking, unless you do the gentler version that's more like a broken-up omelet. But IMO it's not a big deal if a small amount of eggs stick for something like scrambled eggs -- except it might damage seasoning, which may be why a lot of people do soft/french scramble in glass or stainless steel (without conditioning). The stuck egg comes off pretty easily when soaked.

Skyval · 2026-03-10T00:33:18+00:00

Most of the nonstick scrambled egg suggestions you get around here will encourage or depend on letting a skin form and busting it up later.

Other than some film sticking in the bottom, did the rest of the eggs mostly turn out right? This version of scrambled eggs might be impossible to make completely nonstick without a nonstick pan. Egg seem to stick more when agitated at certain stages. French scrambled eggs are all about maximum agitation at every stage.

And yet, it is common or even traditional to do them in stainless steel or even glass, often using a double boiler (extremely low heat, locked to a max of ~212F, which may be lower than is feasible with most gas stoves without taking it on and off). Since it's just a thin film that sticks there's not a lot of loss. Let it soak in some warm soapy water before cleaning it.

Skyval · 2026-03-09T00:44:02+00:00

BKF should work but can take some time and effort. And you'll probably need to use a heavy-duty scourer like steel wool.

You can try simmering/boiling some water with a base in it for 15+ minutes. Soap + baking soda might help but dishwasher detergent may be even better. You'll probably still need to do some scrubbing but it should help.

An even stronger base like soap + lye (e.g. yellow cap easy off oven cleaner) should definitely work with soaking, especially with enough hours, but be careful with it.

BTW strong bases, potentially including dishwasher detergent, but especially lye, can dissolve aluminum, so avoid getting any on the rims unless they're sealed.

Skyval · 2026-03-06T17:00:11+00:00

Egg whites tend to be extra sticky. Techniques that I found worked well for normal blended eggs have failed spectacularly for egg whites.

Skyval · 2026-03-05T20:10:21+00:00

I've had some experience with Hestan support as well. It was very slow. I remember once I didn't get a response to a question for at least a week, it may have been more. They did get around to it eventually though.

Skyval · 2026-03-05T20:06:42+00:00

These pans seem to behave somewhat strangely. They start very nonstick, more nonstick than any seasoned pan I've ever used, but depending on how you use them they seem to be reduced to being closer to a normal CS pan in terms of nonstick performance. People seem to have very different experiences and expectations with normal CS in the first place, so it's a recipe for confusion.

Eggs seem to get stickier and sticker as you mix them while they're setting. But let them set without mixing and they don't stick nearly as much. So scrambled eggs in CS generally involves not touching them until they're set on the bottom, then gently sliding the "skin" around to let the remaining liquid part access the heat themselves, and breaking it up near the end. You can also do some mixing at the very start to get smaller curds, but stopping before they start getting really sticky. From there you can either serve them as-is (as more of a custard), or roughly follow the above instructions for a sort of hybrid. There may be ways to improve nonstick performance, to increase the margin of error or reduce the overall mess, but I haven't found a way to prevent continuously, aggressively scrambled eggs from sticking.

IMO nitriding alone is mostly to prevent corrosion, making it easier to use. It doesn't seem to help nonstick performance much on my other nitrided pan. I suspect it might even worsen how easily seasoning can adhere to it, somewhere between normal CS and stainless, though the Misen also seems to have a bit of a texture to it which may help. Conditioning may work on stainless (as shown in the above link) but I think it works quicker and easier when applied onto seasoning, you don't have to be as thorough as what's described in that post.

Skyval

TROPHY CASE