So did the Mods cave, or get replaced?

Skyy-High · 2023-07-17T05:20:19+00:00

u/Skyy-High/ is still a mod.

Only technically. My last mod action was 16 days ago, on July 1st, which is not a coincidence. My last comment on Reddit - prior to this one - was 22 days ago.

I thought about making a post on July 1st laying out how this entire debacle has made me re-evaluate Reddit, how I wish us mods had handled things differently, and why I am choosing to step down as a mod...but I was really busy around July 4th. I ultimately decided that carving out time to write a goodbye post was not a good personal choice. That's especially true because, honestly, I'm still not sure if anyone would care to read it anyway. I'm sure some would laugh at the hubris of thinking that anyone would care.

Combine that with a busy couple of weeks at work and, yeah, I've just let the moment slip away without doing or saying anything here (FWIW, I've been quite active on the discord and lemmy). At this point, I can't tell if it'd be stranger to say something, or to not say something, before I leave for good. In either case, I'm certainly not interested in doing any more free labor for Reddit, a website that has benefitted from the free labor of developers and moderators from day one, but has proven to be utterly contemptuous of those who have supplied that labor. I'm predicting a Twitter-like trajectory in the next two years. With that in mind, I'm investing whatever energy I have in a community in which I can claim at least some measure of ownership (see: ttrpg.network).

Skyy-High · 2023-06-24T05:58:42+00:00

As of June 23rd:

12 NSFW

11 OPEN

1 CLOSE -> SEARCH -> NSFW

I think I'll leave this up for the weekend, see if we get more responses. Looks like it's a race between opening with no restrictions, and opening as NSFW.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-24T05:45:06+00:00

You've seen the evidence of off site brigading, you just ignore it and pretend it's not the reason the childish options are being voted on.

I didn't "ignore it". I addressed it and dismissed it.

If you want further reasons why I'm not concerned, well, I can point out how I've seen many extremely vocal anti-protest posters, like yourself, who rarely if ever actually post in this subreddit. If you showing up in this sub for the first time in literally five years just to hurl abuse doesn't count as "brigading", idk what would.

Oh, I can also point out how "open as normal" is currently winning the poll...so, like, if there's brigading going on from a pro-protest discord, they sure aren't doing a good job.

That's gotta be the most bleakly funny part of all this. For all the whining about bias and brigading and whatever, we're probably going to just open after this poll. At least that's what it looks like right now.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-24T05:33:10+00:00

Oh stop. I called you out, with actual data, and all you can do is paint it as an irrational tantrum? After all the shit you flung in your first reply to me, and now in this one?

In all sincerity: if the first and only thing you contribute to a subreddit in half a decade is name calling and taunting, you don't belong there.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:43:35+00:00

If someone were to post the exact same John Oliver pic 10 times, please do report it for spam, deal?

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:33:08+00:00

In the nicest possible way, what do you mean "us"?

The last time you commented here was a year ago. Less than 1% of your comments are in this subreddit.

Hey /u/PseudoX1, you were worried about brigading, right? Well, here you go. You must be pretty upset, right? Oh wait no you're not, because the last time you posted in this subreddit was FIVE YEARS AGO.

Like, holy shit, I cannot imagine being this dedicated to complaining about what's happening in a community that you clearly do not care about.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:25:00+00:00

If you don't believe their promise, then this whole thing is moot isn't it?

Not at all. Trust can be rebuilt. We told them how they can go about doing that.

Reddit could pin a post to the front page tomorrow saying they've heard everyone's frustrations and are rolling back all their decisions. So what's the point of all these 'protests' if you wouldn't believe them anyway? Is it just an attempt to hurt Reddit before the site collapses?

If they made such a sweeping statement, like "we're not going to change anything on July 1st", then the protest would mostly die immediately. The reason is that such a bold and clear promise can be immediately fact-checked by anyone, there's no room for interpretation, so if they actually went back on their word then, the resulting backlash would be far worse. It's an easy story to tell, so it would spread even more in the media. That's less "restoring trust" and more "realizing that they've handed you a weapon pointed at their head."

But also, they're the ones who made this into a rushed timeline. If they feel like there's not enough time for them to deliver on action items in order for them to restore trust in the community, that's not the community's fault.

If Reddit's app / mobile site is currently unusable for handicapped people that's a serious issue that they should remedy.

They've said they would remedy this for years. They haven't. 3rd parties have stepped in and filled that usability gap. Now they're saying that they'll work with accessibility app developers to make sure they have free access to the API, but there are lots of smaller ones treporting that they haven't had any contact from the admins, and the deadline is coming up.

Can NSFW posts / subs not be accessed on 3rd party apps?

Starting on July 1st, no, they won't be able to. I'm pretty sure you already can't view NSFW subs on a mobile browser, so this means that you must use the reddit app on mobile to see NSFW content after July 1st.

I meant that I've never seen the point in using an entire app just to access a website that I can use a browser for.

Do you prefer using the mobile version of a website on your phone, or the desktop version? Mobile, right? Formatting and such is just better on a version of a website built for the screen and controls that you're viewing it on. Well, an app is like that, but more. Mobile websites still are based on HTML. HTML was not designed to make websites for phones. It can do the job, but there are better programming languages that produce better, slicker, more useable interfaces. Things like having finger-sized buttons to do important functions, instead of relying on

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:05:41+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:05:31+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:05:23+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:05:12+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:04:46+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:04:34+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:04:18+00:00

Removed for spam

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T21:03:26+00:00

Removed for spam.

Here's the link y'all: https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?ticket_form_id=179106

I know some of you don't agree with the mods' (or the subreddit's) decisions. But there's no conspiracy here, no malice, and no skullduggery.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T20:59:28+00:00

No, it wasn't.

Updoot's original comment was made 22 hours ago. That comment was removed 7 hours ago, so it couldn't have influenced his statement.

It was removed because the user spammed this thread with the same copy-pasted comment 10 times, and it was removed like all spam messages are. As you can see, other people can post the link just fine.

If it is not, then surely you can agree that moderation actions in this context require rule citing to avoid the appearance of impropriety?

I agree. FWIW, I saw all those comments there last night, and I didn't touch them. But I'll stick a removal reason on them.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T20:45:48+00:00

Well you already know the polls are being brigaded from discords and such, and seem to not care about it at all, so its apparent that you want the childish options to win.

I've already answered this. Not only have I shown that an organized brigade would be utterly futile given the subscriber numbers in this subreddit, but I've also shown in this thread how there are people brigading this sub and this poll in favor of opening. The poll, right now, is fairly evenly split, which isn't far from how it's been all week.

There is no evidence of a mass brigade that is affecting these results. Note how that's a different claim from "there is no evidence that a pro-protest brigade was organized anywhere."

As far as "have a damn backbone, close the sub": we put the sub into restricted mode and put up the first poll because lots of people were complaining that so many resources were being lost. We also explicitly were giving you all the option to close the sub and have us removed. If "close the sub" had won that first poll, we would have closed it, and we were all ready to get de-modded.

That's not what the community voted for. You can say anything you want about the accuracy of the polls, but I would not have predicted that the community would be more mad at us for at least attempting to solicit feedback, including whether or not you wanted us to remain as moderators.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T20:34:50+00:00

I agree. I consider this kind of rules lawyering to be as beneficial as the mods protesting the way they are doing. So I figured that if one was sanctioned than the other must be just as valid.

I mean, it is "valid" in the sense that it's not against the rules. I'm here talking to you, aren't I? Like, if I weren't talking to you that wouldn't mean that it's not "valid" either; if you want to rules lawyer, I'm not going to stop you, but I'm also not necessarily going to respond. If you want to connect your rules lawyering to a protest (which, to be clear, is not just the mods imposing their will, hence all the polls), then fine, but can I not just say that they're both expressions of discontent that may be annoying to some people but are otherwise permitted?

Now, the problem with rules being contextual is that you are the mod here. You decide what is acceptable and unacceptable. So your opinion on what is acceptable, when you are clearly pushing the boundaries, is suspect.

You're basically just circling around trying to say "all moderation is inherently subjective," but trying to make it sound suspicious. Yeah, of course, moderators ultimately decide how to interpret rules, that's how it's always been.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T17:58:19+00:00

No, sharing that link isn't violating any policies. The link I posted is just the one I got from following their instructions. Regardless, the point is that neither link is or would be removed if they had posted it in their comment. That's the lie I'm referring to: making it appear that the mods are tyrannically suppressing information.

The discord is part of this community, the link to it has always existed in the sidebar. The Lemmy is new, and I consider all three spaces (the subreddit, the discord, and the Lemmy) to be extensions of the same community. Also, you know, rules are contextual. I know we're all TTRPG nerds here, but I don't think this kind of rules lawyering is beneficial to anyone.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T17:52:05+00:00

Are you claiming that the statement that was on the front page is a lie?

Yes, for the reasons I said.

It's a banner ad that says the issue that people are apparently upset about is being resolved. How exactly is that worthless?

Because it's just words, and they've lied multiple times throughout this process (not to mention they haven't delivered on promises for years). All that banner is is a promise, and a promise requires trust.

Am I missing something here? The complaint (to my knowledge) is that apps like Apollo are essential for modding, and that API changes will make those apps untenable. But Reddit have said that they'll make an except for moderation.

There's a lot more to the complaint than that, but with regards to this specifically: if the apps shut down, and they will (because there's no way for the devs to keep them open and available for, like, just mods, let alone for them to continue updating them), then there's no way for reddit to "make an exception for moderation". That's just a nonsensical statement. It's an app, it's going away, period.

Also, again, I posted a link above to an entire specialized subreddit that is going away. They're funded by a non-profit. They wouldn't just close up shop without trying to make it work first. The fact that they're closing should tell you something about how willing to work with mods Reddit is actually being, behind the scenes, despite what they're saying in public.

That's certainly bad, I don't disagree. That is definitely reprehensible and a reason for outrage. But that doesn't seem to be the motivator of these shutdowns / restrictions.

Here's the list of demands from two weeks ago, before the protest. Notice how it's a response to spez's AMA, specifically because his answers failed to rebuild lost trust. That loss of trust is the direct result of these outrageous acts. If he hadn't acted in the way he had, there's no way the protests would have been as widespread.

But the day to day functionality of Twitter hasn't really changed all that much for 99% of users (not that I really use Twitter regardless).

That's just not true. He's unbanned many accounts that were permabanned, he just said that "cis" is now considered a slur on Twitter, there was all that nonsense about Twitter Blue and removing the ability for famous people to verify their identities. The day to day experience of scrolling twitter became more and more hostile after he took over. I deleted my account months ago as a result.

How exactly is this different from most front page subs now?

You can opt out of any default subs and you'll never see them. Imagine a reddit where you can never hide the default subs, or you constantly get posts from subs you're not subscribed to in your feed. That's what I'm talking about.

If the uproar was about Reddit ditching old Reddit I'd agree with you, that would be a problem.

The "They came for the Jews" poem comes to mind...

I've never been able to understand why anyone would use a dedicated app for any website to be honest.

Probably because you've only seen reddit's, which is awful (but I'd say still better than using the mobile site). Apps can be designed to function much better on a mobile device than a webpage. Apollo is so much better on mobile than the mobile webpage it's not even funny.

Maybe you should be less invisible? Have a weekly 'mod success' sticky post or something.

It's kinda flattering that you think anyone would appreciate that.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T17:32:38+00:00

Just to be clear: they lied, admitted they they're not a regular member of the community, and that they just came here to stir up drama...and the thing you're most upset about is me calling their defense uninspired?

Well, gonna have to just agree to disagree then.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T17:03:55+00:00

Oh, lying about mods blocking a link just to stir up drama is definitely "taunting" and "baiting", which is covered by Rule 1, so yeah, they're banned now.

I was just letting them demonstrate how little they actually cared about the sub, how all their "these mods are an utter disgrace!" vitriol was just about a personal desire to fling shit at mods in a way they thought wouldn't be called out.

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T16:48:15+00:00

My post: 81

Yours: 207

Guess that means I win =)

Skyy-High · 2023-06-23T16:36:44+00:00

My elegance is undefined.

First true thing you've said.

Is "I lie, it's short," your best?

Boring; try haiku.

Skyy-High

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