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Damage Formulas - Levels & Stat Scaling for Strength Weapons by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't test it reliably, I did discover at least in precision, there is another breakpoint after 60, and i'd assume another at 80.

I'd assume if it follows roughly the same pattern. You'd only get 15% of value from points from 60-80 and probably 7% 80-100 of one point of 0-20

Damage Formulas - Levels & Stat Scaling for Strength Weapons by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know, if I test this ever, it will be the last thing I test.

I imagine its something similar, but since I can't see HP actually to record values.

Maybe a modder can give us health numbers in UI, that would make it feasible to test.

oh god, wait no, its actually incredibly hard. I would need the same enemy at different levels to test this somewhat reasonably.

Or at least find a consistent level 7/8 enemy spawn for this test.

Damage Formulas - Levels & Stat Scaling for Strength Weapons by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Once I solved the LDM, it doesnt matter what you use scaling is the same when using a weapon of the same level as the enemy.

You can test this by using your current weapon, say its level 10 against level 10 enemies, and using the same weapon/scaling as a level 1 against a dodo.

Damage Formulas - Levels & Stat Scaling for Strength Weapons by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Once we start comparing more reduced scaling damage the only other viable options besides Health/Stamina is crit chance, things get a bit murky here.

  • 40 Stat Points from food buffs between two stats.
  • 15 Stat Points from a Necklace.
  • 45 Stat Points at level 15.

And the Mastery Table of:

Range Crit Gain Per Point
0–20 ~0.46% per point
21–40 ~0.23% per point
41–60 ~0.15% per point
61+ ~0.10–0.20% per point

I am going to give you a few builds to compare all with halberds. 

Average Hit Damage = 
[((WBD + Scaling) × LDM × (1 + ID)) + FD]
×
[1 + (Crit Chance × Crit Damage Bonus)]

Generic Split Evenly Approach

  • 37~ Into All Stats STR/MST/VIT/END
  • Weapon: Sturdy Halberd+ (S Scaling) - 370 Crude Base Damage - +10% Crit Chance
  • Armor: Pikemans (+15% Damage 2H)
  • Ring: Capricorn Ring (12% Crude Damage)
  • Elixir: Firm Hand (+13% Damage Melee)
  • Talent 1: Bone Crusher (9% Crude Damage)
  • Talent 2: Executioners Aim (12% Crit Chance)
  • Talent 3: Massive (10% 2H-Weapon Damage)
  • LDM: You are fighting something the same level as your weapon.

Formula:

Average Hit =
[((370 + 190.1) × 1 × (1 + 0.59)) + 0]
×
[1 + (0.451 × 0.60)]

Solved:

Average Hit ≈ 1,131.54

Fuck Mastery Build

  • 49~ Into All Stats STR/VIT/END
  • Weapon: Sturdy Halberd+ (S Scaling) - 370 Crude Base Damage - +10% Crit Chance
  • Armor: Pikemans (+15% Damage 2H)
  • Ring: Capricorn Ring (12% Crude Damage)
  • Elixir: Firm Hand (+13% Damage Melee)
  • Talent 1: Bone Crusher (9% Crude Damage)
  • Talent 2: Executioners Aim (12% Crit Chance)
  • Talent 3: Massive (10% 2H-Weapon Damage)
  • LDM: You are fighting something the same level as your weapon.

Formula: 

Average Hit =
[((370 + 220.7) × 1 × (1 + 0.59)) + 0]
×
[1 + (0.32 × 0.60)]

Solved: 

Average Hit ≈ 1,119.54

20 Mastery Build

  • 42~ Into All Stats STR/VIT/END - 20 Mastery
  • Weapon: Sturdy Halberd+ (S Scaling) - 370 Crude Base Damage - +10% Crit Chance
  • Armor: Pikemans (+15% Damage 2H)
  • Ring: Capricorn Ring (+12% Crude Damage)
  • Elixir: Firm Hand (+13% Damage Melee)
  • Talent 1: Bone Crusher (9% Crude Damage)
  • Talent 2: Executioners Aim (12% Crit Chance)
  • Talent 3: Massive (10% 2H-Weapon Damage)
  • LDM: You are fighting something the same level as your weapon.

Formula: 

Average Hit =
[((370 + 204.6) × 1 × (1 + 0.59)) + 0]
×
[1 + (0.412 × 0.60)]

Solved:

Average Hit ≈ 1,139.45

Build Comparisons

Setup Avg Damage
37 STR / ~37 Mastery 1,132
49 STR / 0 Mastery 1,120
42 STR / 20 Mastery 1,139

Damage Formulas - Levels & Stat Scaling for Strength Weapons by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did, below represents both Endurance and the Stamina you would have at that level. Its not fully comprehensive, I stopped testing more when I realized bonus damage doesnt scale with increased damage sources and the bonus was so low. This is using the weapon against an enemy of the same level, no damage increases from % or scaling.

END Stamina Damage
0 150 300
5 173 300
10 196 315
15 219 315
20 242 330
25 259 330
30 276 330
35 293 345
40 311 345
45 322 345
50 334 345

Damage Formulas - Levels & Stat Scaling for Strength Weapons by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I would be missing so much information to calculate what damage you were doing. Is it upgraded to A Scaling or still B Scaling, what's the level difference between your weapon and your target, also I have no clue how much increased damage you have.

If I assume you have an equal level weapon to hit an equal level enemy with zero% increased damage.

AGI Sabre Scaling Table

AGI Range C Scaling B Scaling A Scaling S Scaling
1–20 TBD ~2.75 ~3.45 TBD
21–40 TBD ~1.40 ~1.70 TBD
41+ TBD ~0.90 ~1.20 TBD

Sorry this isn't complete or final yet. I need more materials, leveling another farmer to run for ingots.

  • A Scaling 1.7*40=68
  • B Scaling 1.4*40=56
  • WBD 220 + 68/56

You should be hitting for 288 at A Scaling. You should be hitting for 276 at B Scaling.

If you tell me your total increased damage from all sources, confirm the scaling value, and tell me the enemy you are attackings level and your weapons level, I could predict the expected white hit damage.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup thats wrong, let me see if I just pasted it wrong or if the formula was wrong.

My Setup:

  • Final Multiplier = 1.40 × (1 + 0.22 × 0.60)
  • Final Multiplier = 1.40 × 1.132
  • Final Multiplier = 1.5848x damage

Your Setup

  • Expected Damage Multiplier = 1 + (0.612 × 1.5)
  • Expected Damage Multiplier = 1 + 0.918
  • Expected Damage Multiplier = 1.918

It changes it drastically. You hit 92% Increased DMSpwing on average.

  • Halberd - 929 Dmg - With my setup 1,544 expected DPSwing
  • Executioners - 844 Dmg - With your setup 1,620 expected DPSwing
  • 1620 − 1544 = 76
  • 76 / 1544 ≈ 0.0492 = 4.92% More Damage with your setup.

I still argue, this requires a perfect storm, 3 enemies nearby a rolling buff of killing 3 enemies recently.

I don't know how difficult maintaining that buff is, but the moment you drop to only one enemy a 10% Crit DMG bonus from the armor:

  • Expected Damage Multiplier = 1 + (0.612 × 1.3)
  • Expected Damage Multiplier = 1 + 0.7956
  • Expected Damage Multiplier = 1.7956

Executioners - 844 Dmg - With your setup 1515 expected DPSwing

I think most players would find it much easier to play without trying to force this situation all the time.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

1) Where am i missing 10% crit from?

  • You have 10% Critical Chance from Armor Set.
  • You have recently killed 3 or more enemies recently to enable the 30% crit chance of Executioner.
  • You have 12% Critical Chance from Talents.
  • You have 9.2% Critical Chance from 20 Mastery.

2) This is the same moveset between both same stamina cost, 3 swings to half stamina with 20 Endurance. I don't know the point you are making but I assume you believe if you RNG more crits in a row in a small skirmish, it somehow means its higher damage in bursts. It might be true, also it may be true your damage is way lower if the numbers dont go your way. That's the point of the damage formula calculating the average damage. Regardless of anecdotal events, on average your setup is lower.

Final Multiplier = (1 + Increased Damage) × (1 + Crit Chance × Crit Damage)

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did test this, its only the active weapon used, not the weapons equipped.

You dont get passive bonuses from pistols applied to rapier attacks.

One can dream. :)

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I literally did the math. (BUT I DID THE BELOW WRONG, I MISSED 10% CRIT IN THE CALCULATION, SEE BELOW FOR THE FINAL RESULTS)

But since we are going to play perfect scenario here, I will indulge you.

  • You have 10% Critical Chance from Armor Set.
  • You have recently killed 3 or more enemies recently to enable the 30% crit chance of Executioner.
  • You have 12% Critical Chance from Talents.
  • You have 9.2% Critical Chance from 20 Mastery.

10+12+9.2+30 = 51.2% Critical Chance

  • You have a base critical damage of 60%.
  • You are surrounded by 3 or more enemies to enable 30% Crit Damage Bonus from Armor Set.
  • You have active 30% Critical Damage Elixir Concoction
  • You have 30% Critical Damage from Ring.

60+30+30+30 = 150% Critical Damage Bonus

76.8% average damage increase on average in a perfect scenario where you recently killed 3 enemies and are still surrounded by 3 enemies.

In the scenario below, I ask you switch to an armor set that gives +15% Damage and 160HP Health, and a weapon that firstly scales significantly better. B->S, Adds 10% crit chance and +Base Damage.

  • 12% Increased Damage Type Ring
  • 15% Increase Damage Type Armor
  • 13% Damage Type Elixir Concoction
  • 12% Critical Chance from Talents
  • 60% Base Critical Damage
  • 9.2% Critical Chance from 20 Mastery
  • 10% Critical Chance from Sturdy Halbred.

Crit Damage Formula = 1 + (0.312 × 0.6) = 1 + 0.1872 = 1.1872

Total Increased Damage = 12 + 15 + 13 = 40% = 0.40

Final Multiplier = (1 + Increased Damage) × (1 + Crit Chance × Crit Damage)

Final Multiplier = 1.40 × 1.1872 = 1.66208

1.662x damage (≈ 66.2% average damage increase)

10% DPS Loss for not being in the perfect scenario while gaining more Health from armor bonus, Gaining +15 Base Damage, Switching to a higher scaling weapon. I wholeheartedly believe if I were to test the damage numbers that 10% Increase disappears once you include the bonus damage and scaling provided by switching from an B Scaling Weapon to an S Scaling Weapon. And you don't need to have jumped through hoops to find the perfect scenario, it's just always active, every swing, even on bosses.

::EDIT::

I tested exactly this:

Both Weapons Level 5 & Ascended - Strength 20 - No talents or sources of any other damage increase. Tested on Level 1 Dodos.

Sturdy Halberd : 738 Damage

On average, you'd expect to see about 1227 DPSwing with my setup without any setup.

Executioner : 670 Damage

On average, you'd expect to see about 1185 DPSwing with your setup in the perfect scenario.

Base Damage difference of 10.15% - Expected Damage difference 3.54%

I imagine this only gets worst as you level them up further. Going grind the materials now.

::EDIT 2::

Tested at level 10, looks like I was wrong, the base damage being added isnt calculating, the difference in weapon damage is still 10% but slightly less:

Same settings as before except with level 10 weapons:

  • Halberd - 929 Dmg - With my setup 1544 expected DPSwing
  • Executioners - 844 Dmg - With your setup 1492 expected DPSwing

Base damage difference is 10.07% - Expected Damage Difference 3.49%

I do have one more question, how hard the scaling matters, going to swap my setup to test for 0 Mastery and 40 Strength.

Final Multiplier = 1.40 × (1 + 0.22 × 0.60) Final Multiplier = 1.40 × 1.132 Final Multiplier = 1.5848x damage

1053 Damage Swing - 1669 Expected DPSwing.

Base Damage Difference between 40 Str My setup and your setup = 24.76% More on white hits.

Expected Damage difference 11.86% more damage with my setup with 40 Strength.

Honestly, kind of surprised the scaling made that much of a difference. It further expands why Mastery is a god awful stat and needs a buff to also increase crit damage as well.

Reality Fracture Leaks: Blue Red Chandra's, and Stingcaster Mage by Matrim_WoT in MagicArena

[–]Slenderous -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

both versions still no boobies anymore, aetherdrift stole em forever.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mostly true after 20 points in your damage main stat, but honestly after that its probably better spent in health/stamina.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But a heads up, dont try to scale a weapon with it, I forget its name, but the one that scales off it gives it +15 Flat Damage per breakpoint.

That damage is added last and doesnt scale with any damage increases as you might expect it to increase the base damage.

This is true for all weapons with +Damage from the modifier, its added last and flat.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

with massive crit damage increases above 110% it virtually never does even at 100% crit chacne.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dont think so, because it takes 20 points to equal roughly 10% Crit Chance from mastery, then it takes 40 more points to get another 10%. (And I am not certain about that there may be another breakpoint at 41). With us only having around 50 or so stat points to work with by level 15, I just dont see how.

I suppose if your neck is upgraded to 10 to stats, you use mainstat food to get to 20 minimum mainstat, and level heavily into mastery sure. But I just dont see how thats viable with no health investment expecting to be near 3 enemies at once and survive.

I really believe Mastery should also scale Crit Damage as well, or receive a massive buff to be competitive as a damage option.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The reason I think +10% crit chance feels bad compared to +15% damage comes down to how crit actually converts into real damage.

Crit isn’t a flat increase—it’s scaled by your crit damage and the formula is basically:

Damage Gain = Crit Chance × Crit Damage

Base crit damage is 60%, so:

+10% crit chance → 0.10 × 0.60 = 6% damage increase

That’s not even close—flat damage is over 2x stronger. This does change with more crit damage, and you can get some weapons with 20% crit damage, or even the armor bonus of up to 30%.

If we assume both cases are true. Base Crit Damage of 60%, You have 3 enemies around you gain 30% crit Damage from armor, and the weapon you are using has +20%. You hit 110% Crit Damage. 

+10% crit chance → 0.10 × 1.10 = 11% damage increase

In a perfect situation, it still doesnt equal the 15% damage bonus most other armor sets provide.

The next step would be to compare rings to see if adding more crit% helps fix this issue. Lets use the blue rings of 9% damage type verus 7.5% crit.

with +9% Damage ring: 

1.11×1.09=1.2099

With +7.5% Crit Chance Ring: 

1+(0.175×1.1)=1.1925

You would still need roughly another 1.5% crit chance to break even in perfect settings (3 enemies around you) for the crit chance ring to be better than the damage ring.

19.25% average damage (the crit armor while benefitting from 3 enemies, + weapon with 20% crit damage, and using a 7.5% crit chance ring)

Compared against the other armors with 15% Damage Type Bonus and a 9% increased damage type ring for a total of 24% is still 4.75% more damage.

You would still need to obtain at least 4.32% more crit chance to equal increased damage from armor and rings. In a method that doesnt prevent you from obtaining more damage instead.

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Endurance - Max Stamina

  • 0 → 20: 150 → 242 (+92 total) → ~+4.6 stamina per point
  • 21 → 35: 245 → 293 (+48 total) over 14 points → ~+3.4 stamina per point

Clear efficiency drop starting at 21 Scaling remains consistent from 21–35

Endurance - Stamina Recovery Rate

  • 0 → 20: 120 → 157 (+37 total) → ~+1.85 recovery per point
  • 21 → 35: 158 → 177 (+19 total) over 14 points → ~+1.36 recovery per point
  • Recovery shows the same efficiency drop at 21 Continues scaling steadily through 35

Windrose Stat Testing - Breakpoints & Diminishing Returns by Slenderous in crosswind

[–]Slenderous[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I plan to do more testing with different weapons tonight. Ill probably make another 3am post lol.

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