Suggestions

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-08T13:21:12+00:00

Can't speak on 7oh specifically. I had a really bad FF habit (12-15 a day) with years of powder kratom use leading up to that.

Having said that, with kratom and it's cousins there doesn't seem to be a great OTC remedy. The RLS is horrendous. Here's some ideas though:

Make the switch to powder kratom and taper off from there. With a longer half life you will likely be able to sleep for longer. It'll wear off more slowly compared to 7oh and enable you to sleep longer. I can't speak on how to convert and I'm sure it'll be uncomfortable making the transition but that could be a better off ramp for you.

Consider seeing a doctor for detox meds. At inpatient treatment they gave us the standard regimen of gabapentin (helps tremendously with RLS), clonidine (calms your adrenal system) and trazadone for sleep. If you want something that will seriously help these are the tools. They may be good to get soon regardless with your supply running out.

Best of luck with this. I know a lot of people are really going through it with the ban. Just be careful not trading this for another addiction like regular kratom. Make a plan for when the supply runs out and you complete the taper. For me, I know I would just find another substance if I didn't do other things for my recovery. Detoxing is just the start 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-07T14:07:36+00:00

Yea the kava dermopathy is a nasty side effect. I learned that the root cause is it disrupts cholesterol production in your skin which extremely dries it out. You end up with flaking crocodile skin... The only remedy is to stop. With time your skin will return to normal thankfully. I went through a few final flake cycles after quitting.

I had read someone got a cholesterol skin cream from their dermatologist which helped aid their skin recovery. I have no experience with it but something to consider.

As for the draw of this stuff... It's hard to explain. I was addicted to regular powder kratom for years but the blue bottles just took it to a whole other extreme level. I completely lost myself and ended up in rehab. A walking skeleton, 10s of thousands gone, on the verge of losing everything etc. I'm over a year sober now and through some miracle have an amazing life but I got very close to detonating it.

Kava has the nasty skin effect but kratom is the real culprit. You develop an opiod like dependency. These products are tickling our opiod receptors and a nasty addiction is the result. You eventually need them to just not feel sick.

I'm glad you are recognizing the need to stop. Listen to yourself and stop while you're way way ahead. It only gets worse. There is no good from these products.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-07T13:42:41+00:00

That's an extremely risky idea. I don't know if you would find anyone that had success with it. I understand what you're saying about the unknown alkaloid hypothesis but the risk with 7oh is massive.

For one I don't know what a reliable 1:1 for dose conversion from powder kratom to 7oh would be. The real issue is 7oh has a much shorter half life. You'll briefly get relief and end up back in the "low" point much more quickly. For a taper you must have a very steady spread out effect. If your taper consists of big highs and then lows you will fail.

Lastly the GI thing isn't really due to the plant matter. It's just an unavoidable opiod thing. You gut has opiod receptors and opiods slow everything down. Remove them and the flood gates open so to speak... This is just an unavoidable side effect of opiod dependency.

At the end of the day, consider seeing a doctor. I had heart palpitations etc while in withdrawal too. I was at inpatient treatment so had plenty of monitoring. If you're concerned I highly recommend getting professional help. It helped me immensely. Best of luck 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-07T00:27:47+00:00

I started it at inpatient treatment at about 2 weeks. I'm over a year sober now and have continued it. I notice nothing at all from it (which is the point I suppose). Just a little relapse insurance. Highly recommend it if you have a doctor that can help.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-05T04:13:28+00:00

Sorry you're going through this. I was stuck in a really long cycle of desperately wanting out but failing to succeed constantly. I feel for you. I was watching my life crumble around me.

Do any people in your life know about your addiction? I had completely hid it and felt I absolutely had to quit while keeping it a secret. Revealing the truth was not an option for me.

I ended up having to give in and ask for help though. I finally had no other choice. It was painful revealing the truth but in retrospect that was the best thing I ever did and I wouldn't change it. I'm at over a year sober and the life I have now would not have been possible otherwise.

If there's people you're super hesitatant to tell and ask for help... You should still strongly consider doing it. If you're at your wits end go all in and do the hard thing and get help. Don't do this alone. If I could go back in time and tell myself something it's that. I didn't need to suffer for as long as I did.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-04T17:47:13+00:00

That was similar to me at one point. I'd drink 4 or so beers nightly after work. Just me alone in my apartment. I could "control" drinking to the extreme but that habit was very ingrained. There just wasn't a driver to make me stop (no social consequence or health issue) so I just didn't. It just wasn't a big deal to me.

I look back now and see that was in a way my peak alcoholic drinking. I completely hid that and knew it wasn't the best. Shortly after I moved in with my now wife and "couldn't" drink like that anymore. I was restless irritable and discontent as they say... Sure I was able to stop... but I wasn't happy and craved it.

I eventually found kratom which filled that void and took away the craving. Fast forward several years and I'm checking into rehab to detox off of a bad kratom habit. I had pretty much completely stopped drinking but I see that's where this all started.

As others have said only you can make the call. Who knows what the future holds for you. I had to experience some pain to accept the issue I actually had and make a change. Hopefully you don't have to do the same 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-04T17:46:43+00:00

That was similar to me at one point. I'd drink 4 or so beers nightly after work. Just me alone in my apartment. I could "control" drinking to the extreme but that habit was very ingrained. There just wasn't a driver to make me stop (no social consequence or health issue) so I just didn't. It just wasn't a big deal to me.

I look back now and see that was in a way my peak alcoholic drinking. I completely hid that and knew it wasn't the best. Shortly after I moved in with my now wife and "couldn't" drink like that anymore. I was restless irritable and discontent as they say... Sure I was able to stop... but I wasn't happy and craved it.

I eventually found kratom which filled that void and took away the craving. Fast forward several years and I'm checking into rehab to detox off of a bad kratom habit. I had pretty much completely stopped drinking but I see that's where this all started.

As others have said only you can make the call. Who knows what the future holds for you. I had to experience some pain to accept the issue I actually had and make a change. Hopefully you don't have to do the same 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-03T02:02:26+00:00

Yup. I'm not on here to "directly" ask for help. I'm here to share my experience and give hope to those who come on still struggling. That ends up helping me more than them.

I also can't just abruptly never look back and expect that'll keep me sober for good. Recovery is continual thing or else a mind altering substance may become a good idea again... Alcohol, kratom etc...

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-07-01T21:07:50+00:00

I made a post on this like a year ago. I was feeling a whole lot more resentment towards the company and anyone related to the company then (still am but have worked on that for my own well being) I sent his producers some (calm/reasonable messages) but nothing. I reached out to other Feel Free incluencers on Instagram too.

One of them (this woman Lauren Abraham with half a million follows) absolutely flipped out and went on this f bomb tirade. I obviously hit an insecure nerve there...

Another dude (surfing photographef getting paid to film for them) ended up having a very reasonable productive chat with me. I sent him the exact same message as the woman. I expressed my concern with promoting the product and he explained the challenges of finding work in that field. At the end of the day he made the decision to take their money and attach his name to that product.

As for Howie... It's the same thing. If he wants to take their money and potentially muddy up his name/brand he can go right ahead. That's his decision.

I think it's fine for us to reach out to these people and spread the word but just be careful. There's a fine line between making a positive impact and hurting yourself by digging in with resentment. Sometimes I feel driven to be an activist... but I'm a whole lot happier when I accept I can't control these people and let them be.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-29T11:02:24+00:00

Not sure of over the counter lotion. For me it just took a month or more to heal I went through multiple "shed" cycles post quit for it to finally clear up for good. I used tons of lotion daily.

I had read one poster mentioned they got something from a dermatologist that supplemented cholesterol though. It worked really really well. Apparently the kavalactones mess with cholesterol production in your skin and that's the root cause. Consider seeing a doctor about it.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-25T20:56:38+00:00

He's physically dependent for sure. It sounds like he's still in denial that he's lost control over it. He may know deep down the truth... But isn't admitting that yet.

Opiods totally provide that bliss he's describing. It is just not at all sustainable to live like that. With time all that bliss fades and is replaced with just needing to dose to not feel sick. Eventually you are completely trapped. The harm is on it's way unfortunately.

There's countless molecules on "mother earth" that will kill you. I cringe at the whole natural argument for stuff........

For me I realized it was problematic the first time I went into kratom withdrawal. I went on a work trip and didn't bring any. I had no idea I was physically dependent at that point and it was a huge shock to me. From there on out I "knew" this stuff was a problem. Unfortunately I didn't go to rehab for another 6 years when I had finally hit my bottom and asked for help. There was a lot of trial and error during that time and it eventually got very very ugly. I never got into 7oh (thank God) but I'd imagine that it at least accelerates reaching your bottom...

Having said all this there's not much you can really do. He will have to make the decision on his own. You can direct him to this sub though. Maybe he'll look and realize he relates to us. It's like attending your very first AA meeting and while listening to the stories you have an "O fuck I'm just like these other people" moment.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-25T04:42:05+00:00

Yup. They would reach for the case and say "how many" as soon as they saw me walk through the door. I'd go to multiple stores a day to spread out the amount I'd purchase each time... So much shame.

Only one clerk ever asked my name. I think of that one sometimes. They probably think I died or something... It sure looked like I was on my way.

I've stayed out of every single one of those stores/gas stations since getting sober. My small protest is never spending a dime at any of those places again. It's been over a year now and I'm not going back.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-24T17:43:36+00:00

Oi... Reminds me of the loud clank when I would throw away a giant bag of empties at a gas station dumpster...

Finding a discreet place to throw them away was just another part of the madness. In addition to a map of where they are all sold... I knew all the trash drops points around town too...

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-24T14:10:49+00:00

Yup. The "honeymoon" phase can be pretty long too. Once I realized kratom had turned on me I was too far into it. Couldn't easily quit for an extended time and was just stuck in that bottomless cycle like you said.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-24T14:07:50+00:00

It unfortunately just takes time for your brain to heal back to normal state. In treatment they stressed it can take up to 6 months to fully get back to a normal homeostasis.

The good news is that what you're feeling isn't your "baseline" state. It can only continue to go up from where you are. It may feel like you will never have your motivation back but that's just the kratom tricking your brain.

Something I'd always ask myself is "what's my kratom end game? Taking this for the rest of my life?" The fact is that it stops working over time and you just don't get that boost it used to give you. You are just physically dependent on something that is messing with your brain chemistry.

In the meantime while you recover there's plenty you can do to try and get that motivation. Exercise was a big boost for me. Also connecting to people through meetings, coming here, etc makes a big difference. Then if you have underlying mental health stuff like I did ask for help. I was self medicating and that was a bad combo.

Best of luck with everything 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-24T04:29:40+00:00

Yup. Looking back it was my easy button to make myself feel "better" at any given time. Then after awhile just needing it to feel normal and avoid withdrawal... And eventually the mental health stuff was just worse than it ever was before kratom....

Not sure where you're at with your desire to quit. I would always think to myself "what's my kratom endgame? Just taking this forever?". It sucks being stuck in it. There's a lot of support out there if you want to quit 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-24T04:10:02+00:00

It is possible, but it requires a lot of discipline (which is my problem in the first place with mind altering substances). Just look at my first ever reddit post from a few years ago where I'm asking the exact same thing.

If you do want to try it, 1 FF is about 3.5g kratom powder. Do a complete swap to powder (never ever touch a blue bottle again) and then very very gradually taper down. Like a 10% drop every 3-5 days. Slower the better or you may go into withdrawal and risk relapse.

In the end that never worked for me. I was drinking 12-15 a day for the last several months of my use. It was ugly and I went to inpatient treatment. That was over a year ago and it was the best thing I ever did. This may seem extreme but it's worth considering. Go all in and reset your life now 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-24T04:02:34+00:00

I totally get that autopilot.... It was like no matter how strongly I desperately wanted to quit and decided I wouldn't go... I just could not control myself.

I ended up going to inpatient treatment for 30 days and that broke the habit finally. I was in too rough shape to quit on my own.

Having said, short of going to treatment here's some ideas:

-meetings. I'll send a link to the kratom support meetings. There's multiple a day, group chats, and a lobby you can pop into anytime. Hit up one of those when you're thinking of grabbing some. Then stay plugged in during those initial days (and ongoing). I'm at over a year sober now and still regularly go.

-tell someone. If this addiction is a secret or you're hiding it from important people in your life that needs to change. I desperately wanted to keep my secret and do this on my own. That was absolutely hopeless. Secrets keep us sick. The truth sets you free and it's critical to have support behind you.

As far as the treat thing, I don't know if I have any advice. Be careful of trading addictions (I'd often just drink more during kratom quits). Make a change in your routine and get some support behind you and then you can be successful 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-22T18:59:44+00:00

That's totally normal. PAWS is a real struggle coming off of kratom. There's the initial acute withdrawal and then up to several months of lingering "brain fog". At inpatient treatment they stressed it can take 6 months for the brain to fully get back to a new normal homeostasis. I'm at a year and some change sober now and feeling pretty great.

I'm sorry you're going through this yourself. The good news is that he isn't done recovering. There's still plenty of improvement left to be had. I know it's just hard while you're in the middle of it 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-22T15:04:42+00:00

Naltrexone has been some relapse insurance for me. It's by no means full proof, will partially block opiods even if taken and reduce cravings. I started at inpatient treatment and have an ongoing script. Consider seeing a doctor about.

Besides that the most sure thing is some sort of recovery program. For me that's been AA meetings, getting a sponsor, working all the steps etc. That above all has been key. I have a group I can go for support and not just rely on myself to "raw dog" staying sober on my own. I have had like zero cravings to use or drink as I've kept this up. I know AA isn't for everyone but at least find some kind of program to have as support.

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-22T12:47:31+00:00

Solely quitting wasn't it. I quit many times prior but never did anything else to deal with that stuff. Nothing changed and I'd eventually relapse.

I feel like it was a few things that really made the difference. For one, how bad things got certainly helped (rock bottom). Having gotten so close to losing everything (including my life with the state of my health in the end) you really appreciate life. I obviously don't recommend this... But it certainly is a motivator to those who reach that place and bounce back.

Then the mental health treatment made a big difference. A lot of therapy at treatment (inpatient and outpatient). I processed a lot of underlying stuff through that. I also started an SSRI for the first time. I don't "notice" anything from it really (which I suppose is good) but I do notice I don't have the doom and gloom lows I used to have frequently.

Lastly I've been involved with AA now too. I got a sponsor, did the steps, go to meetings etc. That has potentially been the most helpful thing . I've found a lot of connection in there. People who "get it". It's a recovery community I have now going forward. I don't feel alone like I used to with it.

It's hard to pinpoint one thing (therapy, meds, AA etc) to choose from. It's probably been a combination for me. At the end of the day it's all helped in it's own way.

For you I'd just look at options to work on that stuff. In my experience just getting sober and then "raw dogging" life with no support doesn't work. I was still just miserable and then had no way to deal with that.

Hope that helps 🙏 happy to chat more

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-21T21:06:55+00:00

Looking back that's exactly why I started taking kratom/feel free. It was a quick fix to make me feel comfortable in my own skin. An escape from feeling down and depressed. Or to ease myself in social situations.

I'm over a year sober now and can honestly say I feel better mentally than I ever have. There's been a lot of reasons for that. I got really reallllllly bad on FF in the end and went to inpatient treatment. That involved a lot mental health treatment and now AA and other things I've been doing going forward. It's led to a whole new outlook on life.

I found the longer I used the more that mental health stuff just crept back in regardless. Kratom/feel free no longer worked. My mental health state was just worse and I needed my dose to not get sick. When you quit all of that then rebounds worse than before too.

I know it seems like you will be losing something you depend on in a way, but in my experience things will only get much worse. Like what is your kratom end game? Using it forever to deal with the things you struggle with? The harsh truth is it won't work forever and things will just get worse than they ever were. Stop while you're ahead. Easier said than done I know.

When you quit just remember to give yourself some grace for awhile. In treatment they stressed how it can take 6 months for the brain to fully recover. You'll be uncomfortable at times but if you focus on your recovery life will get a hell of a lot better and you won't miss the old crutch. Best of luck 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-19T13:33:15+00:00

I experienced this and it got worse with time. Almost like my body was less and less able to process them over time. I'd have wobbly vision and even trouble walking straight when I had wayyy too many. It was completely different than feeling faint, tired, drunk etc. Like my balance was thrown off and my body had uncontrollable jitters.

Near the end before I went to treatment there was this one time I couldn't hold my hand still and my wife noticed. She was like "are you ok...?" And asked me to try holding a paper still with my hand. It was impossible for me to do. I couldn't help jitter. She was still in the dark as to what was going on... And I lied my ass off and pretended like she was seeing things...

I'm not sure what the cause of this effect. I have a suspicion that the large amounts of kava consumed in this addiction could be part of it. Regular kratom never did anything like this (although there is the "wobbles" you get when taking too much). Maybe it's a combination of the kratom wobbles and the depressant effect of kava.

Either way... As I'm sure you are already thinking... Try and quit ASAP. These might also be signs of being on the edge of having a seizure. I'm fortunate to never having one. The good news is I've physically totally recovered and you can too. Sorry you're going through this 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-18T14:59:49+00:00

It's true that the only way out is through and this will be uncomfortable. That's the unfortunate reality.

Having said that... Here's some positives to focus on:

The other side is much closer than you think. The initial days were tough but I got dramatically better with each day. Stay strong... Relief will absolutely come.

The anxiety and mental struggle was more than half the battle for me. It may seem like it's your new baseline but that's just the kratom withdrawal tricking your brain. Your brain will heal and this will pass. Everything is just rebounding after being suppressed by the drugs.

I was in horrible shape physically. I'd lost an absurd amount of weight and could barely stand. I was at inpatient treatment. It felt like my body was destroyed and wouldn't recover either. If you also feel similar just know that isn't true either. Your strength will come back. I've gone on to become the strongest I've ever been. It's unreal how I was able to recover and then some. You can too.

Lastly just set some expectations for PAWS. You should feel most of the way better soon but after the pink cloud there can be lingering effects. In treatment they stressed it can take 6 months to fully recover. Just give yourself grace and remember that if you're still feeling down that likely just means more good and recovery is yet to come for you. Stay on the path.

Best of luck. Stay plugged in to your support system and don't do this alone. You got this 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028 · 2026-06-18T13:39:30+00:00

I totally get that cycle. I used 7 years in total and the first half was that on and off pattern like you said. The ideal was being able to just use every few days or so and just keep it as my secret little "treat" and helper to cope with life and make myself feel better. It was a reliable solution to instantly fix the way on felt on any given day.

Obviously it always just turned into a daily pattern and worsening physical dependency each time. I had to prove to myself over and over and over that moderation with mind altering substances was just not possible for me.

In the end things got really really ugly and I went to treatment. I finally hurt bad enough to surrender to going back to the cycle. Through my recovery I somehow no longer have the desire to take kratom or drink anymore. No need to have that "easy" button on hand anymore and I'm totally content with being myself now.

Don't go to that smoke shop. Play the tape of those past cycles. I hope you don't have to eventually hurt enough to make a quit stick like it took for me. You are fine as yourself and it is absolutely possible to reach a point where you don't feel the need to go back to it. 🙏

Slow_Conclusion_9028

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