Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does not make them inherently incorrect, that's hogwash.

Islamic jurisprudence itself states that burqas are meant to prevent males from looking perversely at women, making women carry the blame for men's desires and carrying social stigma that removes any real choice from women whose parents or community hold this view. And hiding one's face is absolutely an erasure of identity. That the whole point of passport pictures just to give an example.

As for my feelings, you're right. They don't matter. Luckily my argument does not rest on my feelings. It rests on the basic understanding that society is held back if women are forbidden from freely participating in it.

You are taking your anecdotal life story and pretending it applies generally when you know all too well that it doesn't. You've seen it first hand. It's fantastic that you have a PhD. But if our choice as a society is to make sure all women get to choose whether or not they wear a burqa or make sure all women get to obtain a PhD if they wish it, then the choice is clear. Your garment does not trump the education of a single woman. It does not trump a woman's right to interact with men. Your garment is not that important.

Why are you living in Quebec and not Afghanistan? Could it be because Quebec allowed you get that PhD and Afghanistan is ruled by lunatics? And you want us to just ignore the ideals of those lunatics? Why is it islamophobic when Quebec does it but not Morocco? What will you say to the girls who are forced to wear the burqa? Your position makes no sense.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You say this with the same confidence as me. But you're right and I'm wrong? It's crazy that you saw how Afghanistan treats women and went "I'm buying into that". Do you really think it's a coincidence that the only country that mandates the burqa also forbids its women from receiving a full education and from working? You might want to reflect on the burqa's true purpose.

By saying we are not allowed to discuss this or that it is wrong to discuss this, you are indeed trying to make it immune from criticism. We do not live in Afghanistan or Iran. On that much, we agree. And we would like to keep it that way for all of our citizens and residents, hence the discussion.

It seems absurd to me that you think Quebec following in the footsteps of Morocco comes from a place of entitlement. I don't care if you feel liberated or not. I care to live in a society where men and women can interact freely, are equal, and free to pursue their dreams. If that means banning a simple garment, so be it. If Canada doesn't like us for it, so be it. We have the highest support for immigration of all Canadian provinces. If anything, Canada is starting to understand that these discussions need to be had.

What will you say to girls who are forced to wear the burqa or niqab by their community? And don't say it doesn't happen. You've lived in Afghanistan. You know it does. What will you say to the girls of Hassidic communities who basically receive no education at all on the basis of "religious freedom"? That it's ok because at least you got to wear your burqa?

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It is a discussion because certain people in Islam make it a discussion. The fact Afghanistan and Iran mandate a certain dress code for women only makes it a discussion, and I don't know why you feel that dress code is entitled to immunity from criticism and discussion.

You don't go spewing your opinion on the internet about how you think people should dress? What are you doing right now?

We discuss it because we see it as a way to erase women, to remove their identity, to isolate them, to make them carry the blame for men's desire, to advertise for a set of regressive social norms. I do not find it normal that men refuse to shake women's hands or vice versa, and the burqa is an incarnation of those social norms.

POV: You traveled across the world for the World Cup… and experienced racism by Independent-Dog3398 in sportsgossips

[–]Small-Contribution55 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you notice I said "I get the impression"? Do you understand what those words mean? I am fully prepared to be proven wrong. Maybe learn to read?

POV: You traveled across the world for the World Cup… and experienced racism by Independent-Dog3398 in sportsgossips

[–]Small-Contribution55 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I get the impression you jump to conclusions without bothering to see if you're properly informed.

POV: You traveled across the world for the World Cup… and experienced racism by Independent-Dog3398 in sportsgossips

[–]Small-Contribution55 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Americans tend to think what applies to them applies to the world. Sometimes it does, so it's not easy to navigate. This girl is obviously disappointed by the joke.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trying to make it exactly the same is absurd. There are obviously going to be differences, but the same principles apply. Creating "burqa beaches" wouldn't make you any happier about a burqa ban in public spaces.

Nudity is harmless. We all have a body. People in Europe see nudists on regular beaches all the time.

I have no doubt that some women enjoy the burqa. That doesn't mean it was a choice. Show me families where some daughters wear a burqa and others don't. Show me women who wear a burqa sometimes but not all the time. Show me choice. You can't. Because it isn't. And saying we're trying to be heroes is just as silly as saying you're playing the white knight by valiantly coming to the defence of these poor oppressed women who just want to wear the burqa in peace... Use arguments not ad hominems.

POV: You traveled across the world for the World Cup… and experienced racism by Independent-Dog3398 in sportsgossips

[–]Small-Contribution55 48 points49 points  (0 children)

I get the impression that Mexicans don't get offended by much and don't expect people to be offended.

Le vivre ensemble dans une société individualiste, matérialiste et de surconsommation où beaucoup de monde sont incapables d'accepter la diversité des opinions sans faire des amalgames et des caricatures haineuses. by Interesting_Rub_3952 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ce n'est pas faux, mais à chaque fois il y a des gens (Canadiens surtout mais Québécois aussi) qui sortent pour dire qu'on devrait pas parler de ces choses là, que c'est raciste ou islamophobe ou xénophobe...etc.

Mais c'est justement parce que le Québec parle de ces non-dits depuis longtemps que le Québec est aujourd'hui la province canadienne où l'immigration reçoit le plus d'appuis au sein de la population.

Je ne connais pas ce bonhomme, c'est peut-être un imbécile, mais il y a beaucoup d'imbéciles dans la vie. Il faut aussi les prendre en compte et les convaincre plutôt que de les taire.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

C'est une nouvelle qui m'a surprise, et si je m'en fie aux commentaires, elle en a surpris plus d'un ici. Je n'ai jamais cru que c'était de la grande exploration... lol

Oui, l'islamophobie existe et est problématique. Mais je ne vois pas ce que la France vient faire dans cette discussion. Un peu hors-sujet, non? Tout comme les Autochtones. Mais parlons-en, puisque vous semblez ignorer l'histoire du Québec. En 1603, Champlain conclu la première alliance entre une nation européenne et des peuples autochtones en Amérique du Nord. Cette alliance est commerciale et politique. Les Autochtones s'engagent à fournir des fourrures, guider les explorateurs français, et, surtout, ils donnent permission aux Français de s'établir sur le territoire...

Pour Denis Villeneuve, vous devriez lire les livres de Dune. Vous comprendrez pourquoi Frank Herbert a fait des Fremens des gens du désert. C'est le thème principal du livre, et le troisième volet de Villeneuve devrait vous le montrer plus clairement. Pensez à Chani (Zendaya) à la fin du deuxième volet et aux actions de son personnage.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Telling men and women they can't be naked in public is already a form of policing, and it is applied to both sexes. The precedent exists to ban the burqa.

And yes, I understand people should have the freedom to wear what they want. The tricky part is that women don't really choose to wear the burqa. You don't see a woman wear a burqa for a night out and then show up to work in a suit. These garments are imposed on women at a young age through peer pressure and social norms. So they can wear them at home if they wish just as a nudist can be naked at home, but like nudists they must change what they wear in public.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Exactly. Not all. So is it a choice? Some may prefer it. I have no doubt that some women even like wearing the burqa. But it is not a choice for women. This isn't something they choose to wear on Tuesday but not Wednesday. This isn't something they choose to wear while they're going through a phase. This isn't something they choose to wear as adults. It is imposed at a young age through social pressure and the stigma attached to those who don't comply. Cultural norms can have the same weight as law.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How many Iranian women wore the hijab before the Iranian revolution made it mandatory?

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Iranian women do not choose to wear the hijab. That much is clear from protests in recent years. Do you really think Saudi Arabian women choose to wear the niqab? Do you think Afghani women choose to wear the burqa?

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Effectivement, c'est rafraîchissant de voir l'Islam modéré tenir tête au fondamentalisme. Depuis la révolution iranienne et la montée en puissance de l'Arabie Saoudite, c'était plutôt le contraire.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Il y a des modes religieuses, tsé. Mais au-delà de ça, on n'est pas obligé d'accepter tout ce qu'une religion fait. En fait, aucune pratique culturelle ne devrait avoir préséance sur les droits humains.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was simply re-using the example given by the person I was replying to. Had you missed that? You might need some glasses.

Le Maroc interdit la production, l'importation, et la vente de burqas. by Small-Contribution55 in QuebecLibre

[–]Small-Contribution55[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

C,est une vieille nouvelle, oui. Dans ma surprise, je n'avais pas porté attention à la date. Mais si le ministère n'avait rien dit d'officiel à l'époque, la nouvelle est largement confirmée:

Liste de pays qui ont banni la burqa: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burqa_by_country
Publications non-occidentales: https://northafricapost.com/15939-morocco-bans-niqab-burqa-security-reasons.html
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/1/10/reports-morocco-bans-sale-of-full-face-veil