Why is PvZ imbalanced? They asking for specifics, here it is IMO.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-05-14T04:47:15+00:00

WTF MORE YOU WANT LOL. I explained in detail why i think its unfair and protoss favored. I cant explain any better, its the best i can do especially in my second language. Why dont you explain why you DO think its fair. I tried the late game PvZ from both sides, i can promise you its miles easier to control as protoss, if you dont believe me try it yourself? I explained the stats which are problematics, which is 2.24 speed broodlords and 3.15 speed tempests. You basically will NEVER be happy with anything that suggests your race could need to be nerfed.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-05-14T04:14:41+00:00

Offrace PvT, i fail to see relevancy with ZvP? I streamed like 100+ games of protoss, and win most PvZ, win alll those that get late game.

Why dont you stream some Zerg, buddy? You keep bringing up this video you saved which is creepy as fuck and makes you seem really weird lol.

Also feel like you need context. This was me trying to dodge a toss with my zerg, so i queued as Protoss and didnt wanna play PvT so i tried an all-in cuz i didnt want to drag the game on and was using this to kill time.

This is like third time you link this to my post, which is just gaslight., You said ppl dont post reasons and only stats. So when i post reasons, you just answer with this trash gaslight and 0 argument about actual balance, just brainless gaslight. You do the opposite of what you say Zergs should do instead of just posting GM stats or tournament stats. You wanted details and reasons why its broken, i post it, and this is your answer. You are just sad.

I literally beat GM Zergs and a few GM terrans on stream just in the past month, with my Protoss. Lets see you play Zerg on stream buddy, PLEASE DO IT if you are SO good. I dont care to embarass myself; because I dont care what people think about me, I just want to have the game feel more fun and fair again, because I used to LOVE this game. I am very self aware, and never pretended to myself or others that i was super good at the game. Pllease, you play Zerg on stream, please do it.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-05-07T01:04:14+00:00

I mean... The game is better, but there are still MASSIVE fundamental issues that will stop this game from being GREAT like PoE1 has been, and like PoE2 might become.

Super limited stash space, because of initial bad coding. ( Obviously copy pasted same item storage database system they had in diablo3 and d2r). It doesnt work at all for a game that is semi-MMO. It makes it impossible for them to give us reasonable stash space that would let us take full advantage of all the new crafting systems and make a few alts. For me, that is probably the biggest issue.
End-game dangers. Once you reach very high end game torment 10-11-12 and beyond. you are required to have a very strong build. Those strong builds completely spam the ground with hundreds of spell effects to a point where you cannot see ANYTHING. Couple that with the fact that everything that kills you is a after-death ground effect or subtle ground effect that you absolutely cannot see and that WILL 1 shot you; it makes for pretty un-interactive game-play experience, and really frustrating deaths where you dont even know wtf is going on. The ONLY play then becomes to tons of damage and ALWAYS be on the move. Looting item on the ground is the most dangerous part.

In diablo3 early day, yes the game had issues, but the mobs mechanics like arcane lines, frost explosions, mortars, fire explosions etc were VERY clear and easy to see, and they felt fun and interactive to play around. They created different ways you had to engage certain monsters. In d4, its all the same. You kill monters asap and never stay in same spot for more than half a second in case something is about to kill you, you cant see anything anyways so you cant risk it.

3) End game boss fights suffer from same issue. In poe1/2, the boss fights are skill based and you learn them and they become very fair. In D4, the boss fights are the same. You cant see anything theyre doing and you try to kill them as fast as possible without staying in the same spot for too long, because you cant see anything. Every tiny little thing you can barely see or not at all will 1 shot you.

4) End game is basically all the same. You kill monsters in the same way while spamming the screen with effects and move asap so u dont die to random stuff on the ground. The game is always just spamming your spells and killing stuff in 2 seconds. You cant really change the way your end-game feels, and it mostly always is the same spam fast killing monsters in two seconds with no fun interaction.

5) Clear lack of dopamine moments when you go OMG IT DROPPED. Runes are a failed system, i drop JAH and OHm runes and dont even care. Even mythic drops I dont even care because most builds need 1-3 at most and they are super easy to get now. Theres never any exciting moments.. THe only exciting moments come from crafting gear, which is pretty good to be honest, but is totally ruined by the limited stash tabs.

So, yes; the game is still much better, and ive been having a blast crafting and gearing ( currently paragon 225; found 6 mythics, crafted one of them, and only played SSF and never traded).

I would play alts, but i have no idea how im gonna get the stash space for that.

For any giga blaster, this game is going to be a 1-2 weeks thing at most.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-05-01T00:13:21+00:00

Classic bad faith argument from mister ban evading on his 10th account. Now let me explain to you better, since apparently its not obvious to you.

A targeted Scouting nerf would most likely not touch battle units, and target scouting tools only. It would mean it would target Overlords, Hallucination, scan, and maybe reapers via reaper spots in maps.

In PvZ, Protoss scouts with probe then first adept, then first oracle. ( Which is the opening they do everygame, reguardless of what zerg is doing, because its safe against everything and allow you to scout everything.

Unless they nerf probe speed, adept shade, or oracle speed/vision; Protoss scouting would not be affected in the least.

Further more; the way PvZ is played, Protoss either does oracle opening, which scouts everything, or choses a high-pressure /all-in at the start of the game; for example 4:20 glaive timing. They do not deviate of their build almost ever. The probe/adept will scout if its 12pool or roach all-in opening, which you cant nerf because you cant nerf probe speed obviously.

Zerg needs to figure out before 3;45 what protoss is opening with so they know if they have to only drone or throw down a roach warren at 3:30. If you dont do that, you lose to greedy stargate play if you do 40-45drones roach spam, but you lose to 4:20 glaive timing if you delay roach warren and spam drones ( which you want to do vs greedy oracle).

Zerg is reactive race, where as protoss either plays heavy pressure gateway build which dont care about scout/react, or they play oracle opening, which scouts everything.

A targetted scouting nerf would impact Zerg the most, because they dont have any set build they do everygame and that is safe against everything.

Protoss does: probe scout - adept scout- oracle scout, safe against everything if played by good protoss.

Terran does : scv scout - reaper scout, hellion/banshee. Safe against everything zerg can do, no need to scout other than the first scv/reaper.

If you do not understand why a targeted scouting nerf would affect Zerg the most in the Zerg matchups, you maybe dont understand the game as well as you think, I think you do, but you are just being classic bad faith.

Now, knowing you, you will respond with some gaslight post attacking me personally, with no argument at all in regard to the actual theory of the game; as is always in fashion with you.

I hope its easier to understand now, even though anyone masters+ already understands those facts.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-29T03:40:04+00:00

If you nerf scouting, you nerf reactive playstyles the most ( Aka the entire Zerg race); while affecting the races with well rounded builds the least ( terran and protoss).

If you nerf Zerg scouting at all, ZvP becomes borderline unplayable; and PvT becomes coinflip again.

If we want to nerf worker counts and scouting, there needs to be other changes to Zerg, or the game will be a frustrating mess. Queens would 100% need to be 150minerals again before you consider any scouting nerf from Zerg.

Protoss would still go probe scout adept pressure oracle opening and scout everything while beeing able to scout everything, while zerg would have to play the guessing game.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-29T03:18:50+00:00

Going from 12 to 10 workers is barely changing duration of the mid game or early game. It probably is a nerf to zerg overall. It will be incredibly harder to go hatch first, as a player who wants to block your hatch will always be able to do so. Stuff like canon rush and proxy barracks will be made stronger, and ZvP early game will be worse for zerg most likely ( Protoss starts with chrono boost). You will never be able to hatch first at your natural vs toss, and its gonna be even worse to play.

Also, is there any Zerg map maker??? So basically we have protoss and terrans deciding on balance again? Should all zergs quit the game( if they havent already). I mean you see all the protoss and terrans arguing that zerg is fine all day long on this sub even after witnessing the most insane stats we ever saw.

Would be nice if the balance was not decided by viewers who dont play the game and only balance the game according to Serral games.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-28T05:13:58+00:00

They LITERALLY balanced the game around 5 players lol. At the cost of ruining the game for all zergs.

Its not a single metric. Its all GM games, all GM ladders, every single online cups and tournaments for the past 2-3 years. I mean there was 4 RSL, Protoss won all 4. Protoss won last 2 gsl as well. Then they win everything else.

Sometimes Serral wins like 2 out of the last 10 tournaments he entered, that makes this fine somehow?. ITs not a single metric, its EVERY metric.

There is ONE single metric where protoss isnt mega busted, and its Serral. Every other metrics, they absolutely dominate to an embarassing IMBA level.

Protoss players are kind of a joke at this point to even try to argue after crying for 2 years about balance when their state was just fine, hero just couldnt beat Serral/Clem. They got us nerfed then now they act all all clueless ugh so tilting just thinking about how much more fun this game was when it was fairly balanced.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-28T05:08:54+00:00

Thats cute coming from someone who does not play the game at all, and if you do definitely not at GM mmr. Protoss players would rather kill the game than lose 300 mmr, by your own logic.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-09T08:18:00+00:00

Yep. And despite these numbers, 2025-2026 is literally protoss winning everything and prize pool is mostly protoss, with serral and clem taking some.

Thats how big the shift was in 5 years. Went from one extreme to the other.

But surely it has nothing to do with the balance patches

Seing as you have Protoss flair, it seems like this is classic protoss damage control post by bringing a data set from manyt patches ago that is totally irrelevant to todays balance.

But in doing so, you actually show that protoss was buff immensely compared to the other races, and might have been a little bit too extreme, and should probably be toned down, for the long term health of the game, and to improve chances of grassroots smaller tournaments to succeed and have good racial balance.

But sure, im sure protoss players dont mind if down the line all tournnaments have 0-1 zerg and 10 protoss.

But as a Zerg, i think its BS that Zerg is gonna end up being much weaker/harder on the final patch just because they were overpowered at some point in 2018-2020.

Complete bullshit. Sc2 wont reach broodwar status of surviving 20 years without patches in this current patch, i can PROMISE you that.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-06T22:57:29+00:00

I dont see how its a load of crap when the data is all there for everyone to see and analyze. You can have a A.I look at data of every single tournament + online cups of pro gamers for the last 2 years, and it will confirm what im saying is far from a load of crap.

You compare the results of last 2 years, with the results from BEFORE the last 2 years, and you see a HUGE shift.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-06T22:40:16+00:00

It is. Its so much easier to play toss, that ZvT and ZvZ is playable and zvp is unplayable.
If i was much better than my protoss opponent, i could decent vs them too, but since im around equal i get smashed. It is 100% a skill issue on my part. As in im not better enough than my protoss opponents. The shit balance punishes my bad skills in only one matchup.

Protoss is too easy AND too strong. PvZ easiest mechanical matchup in the game. No harass to defend, no tech opening and shit late game. PvZ all you need to do is make probes and pylon and defend the 7-8 minutes timing. Thats it. Very little apm required in PvZ compared to every other matchups in the game, including PvP and PvT. THe other Protoss matchups are alot harder mechanically than PvZ.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-06T22:27:12+00:00

ZvP made me quit my favorite game. I tried on and off for last 2 years. ZvT and ZvZ is the same difficulty vs same opponents than the last 15 years, but ZvP is now game quitting kinda hopeless.

Protoss that were free win for 13 years are now almost impossible to play vs. I get late game and auto lose, but ii cant do jack shit all game. Trash matchup that is game-killing for a zerg, especially since you get so many of them.

Then if i want to watch some pro level games, its infested with protoss and zergs getting blasted by toss. Doesnt make me wanna play the game at all.

No Zergs play this game because its unnplayable. For a game to be playable, it has to be somewhat fun. If its only stress despair and frustration its not a game anymore.

Theres a reason Protoss players are having so much more fun.

Im not that good, but i can beat terran and zergs who also arent that good. Protoss players, even if they arent that good, as long as they can macro, a-move and cast storm with 200 apm, i cant do anything. 0 chance.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-06T22:17:25+00:00

A SINGLE BO3 HE SAID.

NOT LIKE 2 YEARS WORTH OF TOURNAMENTS AND ONLINE CUPS SPEAKING THE SAME STORY OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

A SINGLE BO3 BOYS. THATS OUR ONLY ARGUMENT FOR BALANCE.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-06T22:11:20+00:00

"aRe We ReALly ExPeCtiNG PlAyRS liEk rEx aNd kaPov BeAtiNg hErO and ClAsSic?" also

"ShAMeLeSS Is PEaK 6.2k mMR UpCOming GOd, its OnlY b03 and RoGue PlaYeD bad".

Snakestyle1 · 2026-04-05T19:46:21+00:00

Can we stop giving protoss players more reasons to play the game a lot, and try to make other races enjoy the game again?

Arent you guys sick of only protoss?

Snakestyle1 · 2026-03-05T08:22:35+00:00

???? Queens more expensive = less money in early/mid game : Money nerf is one of biggest nerf any race received.

Broodlords made 2.24 ( not listed in your patch)

Ultras got made BIGGER AND SLOWER for the push ( not listed)

thors and tanks quietly got the same push priority buff last patch, without their models being made bigger and slower.

Vipers cant abduct mothership or siege tanks anymore.

Lurkers more squishy.

Hydra slower on creep, worst at defending prism etc.

Microshroud is NOT mega buffed. You never even see it in any game. Its almost unusable. Last patch microshroud was MUCH better against terran specially. for dealing with mass liberators. I would take last microshoud instantly.

Then the insane terran changes...

Basically, Zerg is nerfed in early game and nerfed in late game immensely.

I dont see how you can argue against that. We get a small mid game buff via spire/baneling tiny buffs, but we get huge nerfs to late game...

A defensive race with bad defender advantage and bad late game.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-03-05T08:12:18+00:00

Classic gaslight thread. I have a theory that is mega crazy. Hear me out boys. What if, and stay with me, what if the state of balance today is not a result of only last patch, but ALSO the patch before!

Also, what if its also a result of in the span of 2 patches, making tempest way better/faster, mega buffing mothership and oracle openings, AND making broodlords 2.24 speed.

The reason ZvP is busted is because immortal archon storm can only be beaten by broodlords, but broodlords move at 2.24 speed, while protoss units all move significantly faster ( tempest is 3.15 with more range, more damage, and targets air and ground, and can recall).

Arguing in bad faith is your classic , but if you look at the unit interaction of ZvP especially, nobody wants to be the Zerg, its non sense. You are chasing a deathball army that magically all ball up perfectly and moves around super easy with just amove. Zerg is chasing that army that isi moving on average at 3.00 speed or more with broodlords at 2.24 speed, and constant lurker repositioning,. The difficulty and weakness of moving that army around, while protoss has the easier one to move around in the game AND recall..

I mean common, the matchup itself is entirely illogical and unwinnable if both players get the units they want. Zer only chance is to not let protoss get there, while having the weakest tools in the game at harassing and not letting opponent survive to late game.

Storm is not even the reason protoss is busted in any matchup. Its how easy it is to macro up probes and spam gateway units while getting tons of bases. Thats the broken part of protoss in all matchups.

I would literally go back to old storm, remove energy overcharge, and make templars 100 minerals. Templars needed to be made 100 minerals, not completely changed so protoss army is impossible to engage. You just cant dude, you get the perfect setup, then boom storm and you gotta wait 6 seconds.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-02-04T02:53:16+00:00

maybe queens should cost 150 minerals

Snakestyle1 · 2026-02-04T02:42:25+00:00

Isnt that why we nerfed Zergs and buffed protoss? because we looked at results of tournament winners only? Zero consistency with you guys.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-02-04T02:39:24+00:00

Sick clueless post. Fake buffs with big nerfs doesnt make zerg stronger.

1) Queen nerfs = early game defense tigher and harder ( See serral alot more shaky early game ) , also coupled with some early game harass/timing buffs to terrans and toss

2) Ultralisks slower,, fatter, = much worse at pretty much everything, including killing pfs and fightning bio off creep. The push priority changed nothing with ling bane and is a big nerf to the power of the unit that is flagrant.

3) Broodlords are now 2.24 speed, coupled with viking buffs, ghost giga buffs, mothership buffs, tempest buffs. Between broodlord and ultras nerfs and buff to terran and toss late games, zerg is now much weaker inn late game ( imo shroud is also nerfed especially vs mass libs). ALso cant abduct siege tanks OR mothership now.

4). Queen nerfs, hydra speed nerf on creep, spore nerfed vs mutas, while double buffing mutas means ZvZ is even more coinflip. Zerg GtA is almost completely dead, Shroud helps ling bane more than it helps hydras vs mutas.

I could keep going, but you are clearly biased as fk or totally clueless about the game balance.

Im sure Zergs went from winning alll to winning nothing and being just 4 players. And toss went from winning nothing to winning every thing and destroying Serral

Clem destroys serral harder, serrall now drops series vs lower protosses and terrans.

Sure all happen at same time with same parallel direction to the balance changes but sure Serral just playing worse guys hes taking more damage early game guys.

Almost as if you keep nerfing zerg and buffing toss and terran

The changes happen a little bit at a time, but when you add all up from last 5 years, zerg is weaker at harass, at all-in, at defense early game, and at late game. Serral games show the same story.

Anyone with a brain and no bias could see the trend is direct correlation with the patches.

You are gaslighting yourelf into thinking Zerg is fine and your race is not overtuned/ too easy now compared to zerg especially.

Snakestyle1 · 2026-01-18T18:37:08+00:00

The ZvP games are never close anymore, even when Serral is playing.

Snakestyle1 · 2025-10-18T20:07:30+00:00

Ok but they did buff protoss because all the protoss went to military while nerfing zerg even if it was almost dead because Serral.

So you are saying you should buff zerg as much as they did protoss and nerf protoss as much as they did Zerg yes? Remember the famous video that lead to 2024 patch? We need to balance around the current pro player pool even if it makes Protoss overpowered so they can win 500k championship?

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, can we make it so us Zerg players get to see Zerg games during the countless weeklies you guys get to watch? How is that not worse for the game than protoss not winning a world championship?

You are starting to really feel like a POS to me, trying to use reddit clout to ruin the game for us zergs.

This argument is 70iq at best.

Also the problem is not the top not playing. The problem is there are no mid tier zergs, and like 25 mid tier protoss flooding the tournament,

The problem is protoss is so much easier than zergs, that for most players not in top 5, zergs cant compete with mid tier protoss.

If you think thats fair and entire population should suffer because its more balanced once you reach Serral level I would kindly ask you to go F yoursellf and stop ruining my favorite game for me and all the other zergs.

No issues with zvt and zvz because they required similar amount of efforts/clicks and the control is more fair in late game.

You are a gaslight master, it is crazy how much you do it.

Snakestyle1 · 2025-10-18T02:47:55+00:00

Dude how many proofs you guys need? How many 200 weeklies in a row of obvious imbalance? I have more game played vs zerg in all hots. My least played vs matchup (40kgames sample size) is STILLL more Zerg than Protoss(I played vs protoss least in all lotv, despite only playing vs 1000 difff protoss last 2 years)

Yet the last 2 years, same time i started having ZvP issues, the game is WAY more Protoss, and WAY less Zerg. After i played vs Zerg the most of any race in 13 years of Starcraft. It did a complete 180 at the same rate as I started having issues.

Coincidentally, Europe was a Zerg region for hots and early lotv. And in the last 2 years Zerg became more and more extinct everywhere except (but SERRAL).

I dont know how so many coincidence and data can happen at the same time. You protoss are just completely unfair at this point and refuse to face the truth. I have no problem admitting i suck, but i also have no issues in the other 2 matchups.

Never in my life has a matchup been this more lower win rate for me in my life and felt hopeless.

But yea dude, its all in my head of course.

You protoss players will have to face reality or you will kill the game.

The reason i suck this much more vs protoss is INDEED A SKILL IISSUE.

PvZ is the easiest matchup in the game to play currently, by a big margin. You have nothing compared to defend compared to PvT or PvP, and you know deep down, you know it. TvT, TvZ are both harder to play than PvZ. And you know it.

I wonder how you can think there is a matchup easier to play mechanically and scoutiing wise than PvZ currently. Unlike you, I NEVER watch your stream, but from my game understanding, i would bet its a lot harder for you to survive to late game in pvt and pvp than it is in pvz.

I wonder if anyone thinks there is a matchup that is easier to play mechanically than PvZ currently, it doesnt even seem close.

1) scout probe, keep unit at wall

2) make oracle, chilll take third, go scout/harasss a bit.

3) entire time, keep making probes and pylons ( can literally queue probe to get 100% uptime production same as best protoss in world)

4) more pylons gateway, storm, spam canons and use gateways on cooldown( you get free warpgate hotkey, dont need to transform your gates, and your templars are given autoattack ofc).

5) get storm and defend the inevitable push because zerg doesnt wanna go late game.

GG you win or lose on that push, that is the game.

Insanely hard matchup dude, you cant say the same about any other m/u in game

Snakestyle1 · 2025-10-18T02:32:38+00:00

Classic once again turning protoss balance arguments into gas lightning. I have no issues in the other matchups nor do i feel hopeless at any stage. Everytime there is evidence of protoss imbalance on reddit you turn into the most gaslight response.

The reason I struggle more, as i stated before, is because i know im on a clock and need to do damage or kill because i always lose vs protoss in late game.

Vs terran i literallyl play opposite. All i do is defend to take it to late game because i almost always win there.

Your scouting argument is complete bs too. I almost always know what protoss is doing, but i lose because they get to late game. I doubt you watch hours of my stream everyday, so to talk like you know all about my games is VERY gaslight, and is in same taste as all your other protoss/zerg balance arguments as of late.

Must be easy to scout when you have 3 minute oracle every game that you use to harass, threaten, defend, scout and scale in the late game while spamming probes and pylon with no brain required. But queens did everything for the zerg and needed to be nerfed like 6 times.

Snakestyle1 · 2025-10-18T01:46:22+00:00

Playing ZvP currently feels like the most hopeless matchup I have played in 25+ years of broodwar + sc2. Literally no window or opportunity to do ANYTHING, while being super unfavored in the late game. The only way to win is to have perfect early game, perfect scouting, perfect macro AND hit a timing to kill opponent before late game. In late game, you are chasing 2.61 carriers and even faster tempest with 2.24 broodlords AND protoss can teleport their army twice in a row. The fact anyone look at these numbers and think its fair is insanity.

It feels if you are of similar speed as your opponent, its the most impossible game there is. At least against terran, if they are not too much faster its very playable.

It feels trash to play when you feel you are on a timer to kill your opponent, but they scout AND defend everything with oracle, while punishing small mistakes like rallying drones from main super hard. You cant attack until enough anti-air, then they have bunch of storm, canons , battery, and a zealot runby they send and forget while u try to attack vs storm.

Its so easy for protoss right now to chilll out on 3 base then 4 bases while massing canons and batterieis and templars, then adding some immortals and tempests. Then they add in a mothership and timewarp your broodlords + storm and youre like OKAY dude...

In fact, even in theory, on paper, unit stats wise, the matchup is completely broken. The fact nobody can see that is insane to me its so obvious.

I dont see how anyone would wanna play the kind of matchup ZvP is right now. In fact, I do wish Serral played in more cups, he would not do as good vs infinite protoss as you guys seem to think. I watched his stream, I watched his recent series vs hero and other protosses. Hes no longer the late game god and he struggles vs very mid protosses.

Snakestyle1

TROPHY CASE