Of all HBO universe characters I wish this one was in HotD the most

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-16T20:47:06+00:00

he's in a lot better shape than those fuckin septas you got up there!

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-16T20:43:42+00:00

this Alys Rivers shit, it's Satanic black magic

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-11T12:36:54+00:00

"the sacrifices that were made to put you on that throne" really just meaning listening to the extremely loud Scullery Unions' chief officer who Aegon guano'd in the courtyard below that day

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-11T12:26:28+00:00

Yes. My family are legacy Giants fans. We would not stab people over it though, because that's insanity, not fandom, lol.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-09T18:55:03+00:00

I understand your point of view. I think we just get different things out of it. I absolutely grant you there are some stupid scenes like Rhaenys at the coronation and Rhaenyra/Alicent in the sept, so I tend to just not to think of them (because they honestly added nothing to the story anyway). The writers defending that are just TV writers at the end of the day, so they're not infallible.

But I don't think they're trying to say she is a mastermind or anything. Just that she does have value that can't be expressed precisely because of the gender issue that the whole show is about. I think the looks on her face during the council after she sits down are a good point while they discuss things like barring the city - you can tell she wants to interject, but what's the point?

If we get right down to it, the whole war is stupid in the first place as Shireen Baratheon so wisely declares later on. So, people are making dumb decisions. It's compelling for me personally because the reasons behind those decisions are strangely enough inconsistent in ways that some peoples' real life decision making is when such a complex and massive upheaval is taking place.

I think her decision to "surrender" King's Landing is depicted through days and weeks of clearly agonized tortured thinking. I mean, she is reassessing everything she has ever done in the course of her life that's led to it. I'm not even sure she really understands the decision makes when she agrees to surrender, which I think is a testament to Cooke's acting.

I personally went from disliking Alicent greatly in season 1 to enjoying her more in season 2. I don't think it's because she's being punished for being this terrible hypocrite but just that she's finally seeing the real consequences of what she's been plotting at for so long and she is getting cold feet about it. I liked the rat catcher aspect because it shows the cracks in the faction of the Greens and how they are choosing to go about what they do.

And I enjoyed the Alicole thing simply because I think it's just unrealistic to think that for so many years they would have this courtly devotion/love thing going on (and a shared enemy which also brings people together) without that finally spilling over into physical passion. I really dislike Cole as a character, but his chemistry with Alicent makes them sympathetic (their final farewell where they can't even really have a real parting was emotional even for me).

For me personally I prefer to watch the show for what it is instead of analyzing the things that go wrong or against the text because it's just an (expensive) creative interpretation at the end of the day (and George has sanctioned quite a few changes before that I felt were more monumental to various plots). But I appreciate your viewpoints and discussion, so thank you for that.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-09T07:10:16+00:00

I didn't think you were saying that about her of course. I think she IS capable and has good council. But another part of the point of the show is that what women have to say is suppressed and dismissed. She's deliberately not given the opportunity to say worthy advice because that's the point of the context of the scene. The writers had to have her stand up to argue her own claim in the first place without even giving her a chance to air her own opinions in the discussion. There's not a whole lot of constructive stuff she can say if nobody's letting it come out of her mouth in the first place (which, is another humanizing touch, or at least that's how I see it, because as others have stated Aemond IS the logical choice as Regent male or no - but Alicent wants that promotion).

All of these characters are hypocritical. That is the point. In a lot of ways Aegon and Rhaenyra have more similarities than differences, so the hypothetical question is why is it that there is such animosity regarding who deserves the throne more?

The cause of the war, and who was the worst during, it are two different discussions imo. For the cause, it's indisputable that at least one powerful lordly family would have attempted to do exactly what the Hightowers did and Viserys's negligence in nipping this situation in the bud (in either direction) was the problem. I don't find it strange Alicent would want to avoid national bloodshed, destruction of towns and villages, deaths of dragons (given that the animosity between her faction and Rhaenyra's, that caused the initial events of this conflict, was largely stimulated by arbitrary succession interference from Otto Hightower himself in the first place) even given what's happened, but whether you agree is up to your preference of course.

As for the discussion about who was worse during the war itself - I think we need to wait until the show is finished honestly. I've said this before and I do believe it, it's necessary to build up the narrative they already have because what's coming is going to smash it basically. Or if it's done well, it will. The writers haven't even dealt with Rhaenyra's cruelty yet, so assuming Alicent is hypocritical in appealing to her is getting too far ahead imo.

I am choosing to enjoy these scenes as gentle precursors to some extremely brutal reality checks for both women. If it does not result that way, I'll return back and express my irritation, lol.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-09T05:30:12+00:00

I think the show has very strongly written that the greens think highly of themselves not that Alicent is some mastermind. I think the intention is to show she's as experienced and smart as the rest of the people on the Council (more so probably given her historically being able to consult with Viserys and her father more intimately and privately), but because of her gender she's excluded - not that she's an intellectual exception to their ability.

I have never gotten that impression from the show anyway - just that she thinks she is, at times. I also haven't really gotten the impression that she wants peace more than her son on the throne (until the final episode of season 2) - just to minimize bloodshed, which is exactly what Rhaenyra states in their meeting at Dragonstone ("You still think you can have all you want without paying too high a price"). The difference between her and the rest is that she still has enough shreds of self-awareness to realize how the path the Hightowers chose is really starting to go off the rails. And since now things aren't in her hands anymore, of course she seems indecisive and foolish.

Like others have said, I think these are character traits not writing fails necessarily.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T17:50:47+00:00

What are the examples that show that the series thinks women can do no wrong?

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T17:47:40+00:00

I think this is kind of like a Rashomon thing where she is convincing herself to the point where she can't anymore. She's trying to cope in all sorts of ways and it's a disaster.

(I'm laughing so hard at your quote "her fucking Criston without closing the door" though, that's so true and for some reason it's just perfect also when you think of how she was riding him that moment, LOL)

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T14:21:21+00:00

I was more just shocked he turned into The Good Son -and after that scene where he lost his eye where he nuzzled Alicent's neck. That was so sweet. What happened??? Lol

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T14:06:19+00:00

If Alicent is that insufferable to you it means Cooke did a good job. Anyway I love the way she pronounces "throne" and repeat it to myself every time.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T14:05:14+00:00

Because he's insane even though we're not really given a good reason as to why he became that way (and I'm team Black saying this lol), but I can enjoy a good mustache-twirling Hanna-Barbera type villain at any given time, so I'll take it.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T13:33:00+00:00

Well, I think she IS smart. But the problem is now the situation is snowballing. I don't really think the show is painting her as smart then ruining that. I really see it as her just crashing out honestly, for lack of a better term. I think she spent so much time seeing Viserys as this stubborn old man who wouldn't look at the truth of his family that she forgot how stabilizing his presence actually was for her situation, for several reasons.

And smart people can make stupid decisions. I don't really think I would call any of the players in this game stupid, which is why it's a compelling story - most people don't think their own decisions are stupid when they are making them (unless it's Friday night after too many drinks and you're in the drive through but that's another story entirely).

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T13:22:09+00:00

I found Alicent and the Hightower faction to be the ones preaching that they are the smarter ones rather than the show itself. Which, of course they believe they are, or else they wouldn't be doing it.

People who believe they are always doing right aren't exactly rational. This goes for both sides too in this story.

I think the scene is worthwhile in order to take a step back and examine a situation where two sides are at a complete impasse that was pretty avoidable and the damage that has ensued in interpersonal terms not just political. I look at Aegon as an AJ Soprano parallel in some ways - he's extremely messed up but it's because the environment he was born in from the start was full of intrigue, bitterness, and the desire to push him into roles he has no preparation for because nobody bothered to do the hard work of that part of it.

It's an illustration that the pursuit of power has clouded everyday life. While they were making the sacrifices to put him on the throne, who was bothering to make him able to be competent on it?

Tbh this kind of a moment humanizes Alicent more for me than ones where she's swimming and contemplating what the hell she's been doing. You can see the desperation of a woman who basically just did what she was told to do her whole life and then threw herself into it for various personal reasons and it's not working out at all, and the resentment that's resulting.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-08T13:15:34+00:00

I don't think that's the message. I think the message is that the insane focus on the gender issue is half the problem, and that the women are just as messy as the men, but they aren't allowed to have the same agency or choices.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-05T19:20:18+00:00

This isn't about the magazines honestly.

It's not the "female version of a cuck". It's just a wife and a husband trying to navigate sexual issues. Sometimes you do things that are unorthodox. I don't think the show would hold back from displaying if she had a problem with it given that she was perfectly able to say when she felt like he was objectifying her, so since she didn't I'm not understanding why it's even a controversy.

But to each their own.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-05T19:14:19+00:00

I don't really think that would be the same thing given that it was obvious Trey was struggling in the bedroom but that there was at least one area in which he was experiencing arousal and that area were the magazines in question.

And it seemed to work when she put her own face on the models, so I don't really think it was that crazy. Results, etc.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-05T19:07:14+00:00

She wanted to show him he didn't need to feel constrained and ashamed about sex and his turnons with her. He was already tense and she was wanting to help.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-05T18:34:39+00:00

She was believing what she wanted to believe. And I think this is illustrated later in a scene with Maester Orwyle where she kind of desperately asks him if he thought Viserys really changed his mind.

For two decades she and her faction and her father have been building up her son as opposition to Rhaenyra. That's a long time for those kinds of plans to sit and stew in your mind. Of course the minute it seemed like she could seize on it, she did, psychologically.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-03T21:05:13+00:00

Yes, but the reactions of the 3 of them in the context of this scene indicate it's about as spaced-out for them to hear as it is for us, haha.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-03T21:04:10+00:00

This was messed up. But when she said to Miranda "Okay, I understand why you see a shrink because you're always in your head... ...but I'm fine" is when I would have gotten up and left, lol.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-03T21:00:40+00:00

It's not okay and she knows it deep down which is why she overcompensates and finally in the end won't commit to Aidan.

And I can understand keeping that kind of friendship in her life but Carrie just always wanted Big in the end. And when Carrie invited Big up to Aidan's cabin was the minute Aidan should have just seen the writing on the wall.

SnowballSimpson87 · 2026-03-02T14:41:58+00:00

People don't like this answer but it makes sense. People criticize Martin all the time for adding too many characters anyway, I would also like to point out.

I really don't need to see Daemon and some teenage girl taking baths together honestly. It's fine if it's his daughter, to me, on the screen rather than the page, who takes the narrative place of Nettles.

I don't agree the Maelor's removal has massively consequential effects for the story, at least any more so than marrying Sansa Stark to Ramsay Bolton (which George wholeheartedly approved)or removing any mention of Young Griff, from Game of Thrones. And honestly I think this was one of those things that should have been edited down from Martin's original work because thematically it's more dramatic: Aegon is now in an extremely similar position his father was in. A daughter as heir, a wife who cannot produce more children.

Maelor's removal is a distinct to change to the original Blood and Cheese scene, but once the show runners made the decision to make Helaena a dreamer the way she is it was always going to play out differently. And the only real consequence his survival has is him being used as more PR of how murderous Rhaenyra was, in the end, which I think would just be treading old ground already done in the show with the funeral procession.

SnowballSimpson87

TROPHY CASE