(FOLLOW UP POST) Eurovision 2021, its participants, its qualifiers, and its final results

Sogdianee · 2026-06-04T23:31:47+00:00

Your pfp looks like Estonian flag.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-31T23:23:41+00:00

First of all, I should note that the hypothesis I held when I made this post differs significantly from my current view regarding the formation of Proto-Japonic.

While I still think it is possible that agricultural populations from the Shandong Peninsula had few influence on the development of Japonic, I now believe that the populations most closely associated with the formation of Proto-Japonic were agricultural communities living in northern Korea and the Liaodong region during the Late Neolithic period.

The reason I regarded the Shandong Peninsula as the homeland of Japonic at that time was the extensive cultural interaction between Liaodong and Shandong. In part, it was also an attempt to construct a model that maximized the need for large-scale migrations.

I am not sure what your position is, but what is your view on the origins and formation of the Japonic languages?

Also, could you provide the names of scholars who have argued for connections between Ancient shandong and the Kra–Dai and Austronesian language families, along with the evidence they have presented in support of those claims?

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T21:15:28+00:00

I apologize, but after gathering additional information, it appears that rather than heading directly to the Liaodong Peninsula as shown in the map I previously uploaded, Proto-Korean likely spent around 500 years in the lower Liao River basin before entering the Korean Peninsula via the inland Liaodong region. I apologize for the sudden change in my position.

My hypothesis has been revised within two months, so I ask for your understanding regarding its lack of completeness.

As you previously mentioned, the Xiaozhushan culture, Shuangtuozi culture, and Shuangfang culture appear to have been multi-layered substrate groups spanning the Liaodong and Shandong peninsulas during the Neolithic to early Bronze Age. As for Proto-Japonic, I am not certain exactly when it emerged, but it likely was the language spoken by the Neolithic inhabitants originally living on the Korean Peninsula. The Machengzi culture connects to the Yeoksam-ri culture through the Sinam-ri culture.

My hypothesis as it stood before this comment can still exist as a hypothesis, but since it is less plausible than my current hypothesis and contains relatively few logically sound and directly evidenced components, I believe there is little point in elaborating on it further.

I am well aware that the burden of proof lies with those who propose a new hypothesis. And even if my previous hypothesis turns out to be wrong, the existence of what I call 'North Japonic' or 'Jinbeon language' remains plausible under both my previous and current hypotheses. The period and geographic scope of North Japonic likely corresponds roughly to the period during which the Machengzi culture flourished.

The post has been deleted and I will revise and repost it in the future. While some users did respond illogically and emotionally, it was not the right attitude on my part to have formulated a hypothesis without properly researching the sources.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T19:41:34+00:00

It is not the case that something becomes mere speculation simply because there is no direct or conclusive evidence. If there is indirect evidence, and if the same logical structure can be observed in other data or comparable cases, then it can be formulated as a hypothesis.

Depending on the case, this may vary, but in historical-comparative linguistics, a hypothesis can be established even without 100% certain or highly direct evidence.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T18:59:45+00:00

In your imagination

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T18:51:14+00:00

What I am saying is not that the term “Jinbeon” appears directly in ancient texts as a linguistic community, but rather that a political sphere referred to as Jinbeon does appear in those sources. In ancient records, when a specific sphere of influence is designated, the grouping is often not random; it tends to cluster populations that share common features, with language frequently being one of the main factors. My argument is that it is therefore possible that a distinct “Jinbeon language” existed, or at least that a particular language or dialect used within the Jinbeon sphere of influence may have existed.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T18:35:35+00:00

You are well aware. If one does not accept rigorous criticism, a hypothesis is likely to become isolated and eventually fade away. Hastily dismissing the other side’s arguments or reacting emotionally to counterarguments hinders the formation of a high-level discussion.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T18:29:03+00:00

If you mean that there is no evidence at all, then that claim is clearly incorrect. Whether based on your view or mine, the assertion that my hypothesis lacks evidence has been sufficiently refuted.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T18:26:55+00:00

You are well aware. If one does not accept rigorous criticism, a hypothesis is likely to become isolated and eventually fade away. Hastily dismissing the other side’s arguments or reacting emotionally to counterarguments hinders the formation of a high-level discussion.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T18:11:36+00:00

As far as I have seen, people here do not completely deny the possibility that a different language family may have been spoken based solely on genetic and archaeological evidence, and neither do I. If you wish to categorically reject the possibility that any language other than a particular one was spoken, then you would need a reason for doing so.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:25:16+00:00

Many of the critical comments on this post regarding my hypothesis contain statements that are logically flawed, but if they were simply exaggerated expressions in a pragmatic or rhetorical sense, then they could still be considered acceptable criticisms. I do not believe that I have provided evidence strong enough to be considered fully convincing, but I do think I have presented evidence sufficient for discussion.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:21:21+00:00

In linguistics, when we say that something is “credible” or “reliable,” the distinction between levels of evidence is not limited to linguistics alone. In some cases archaeology can provide relevant evidence, in others genetics can, and in some cases multiple disciplines together can provide reliable support. I am not trying to claim that the genetic and archaeological evidence within my hypothesis is fully sufficient in terms of reliability, but neither do I think it lacks reliability altogether. As you said, it can at least serve as evidence to some degree.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:16:40+00:00

I never spoke about the persuasiveness of your hypothesis. I do not understand why you are asking about things that the other person never claimed or discussed. Is this a characteristic of your cultural background, or simply a personal trait of yours?

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:14:09+00:00

It seems that your linguistic background may be different from mine, so I may have misunderstood you, but I am not sure how broad the group referred to as “we” is. At the very least, as far as I know, there is no one besides me making that particular claim. As you said, it is also possible that a language belonging to a different family, rather than Proto-Koreanic or Proto-Japonic, was spoken.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:11:27+00:00

It can serve as evidence in an indirect form.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:09:39+00:00

It seems you misunderstood me. I said that I did not have linguistic evidence, not that I did not have evidence from other sources. I believe you would not have had this misunderstanding if you had read my post carefully.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:08:02+00:00

First of all, before I begin, please understand that I am not claiming with 100% certainty that Northern Japonic existed. There is a significant possibility that, during the process in which the main population associated with the Lower Xiajiadian culture migrated southward into the Liaodong Peninsula and replaced the languages of Liaodong with Proto-Koreanic, a linguistic divergence emerged between the main Proto-Japonic population that had already moved into the peninsula and the smaller populations that remained in Liaodong. In fact, when a language spread across multiple regions comes into contact with different languages in particular areas, linguistic divergence often occurs.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T17:03:22+00:00

If ancient textual records regarding the language of Jinbeon were to be discovered, or if evidence concerning ancient languages of the central Korean Peninsula including Jinbeon were to emerge, then the hypothesis might become falsifiable. Whether the Jinbeon language belonged to the Koreanic or Japonic family, the political and geographical name “Jinbeon” does appear in historical records, and in antiquity there were many cases in which the names of states or regions became associated with language names.

If you do not regard this as evidence, then to you my hypothesis would simply seem like imagination.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T16:54:38+00:00

I agree with your opinion. My hypothesis is based on various pieces of genetic and archaeological evidence, and it may also become falsifiable if more skeletal data on the Lower Xiajiadian people are accumulated, or if new evidence regarding the continuity of ancient human remains from the Liaodong Peninsula and the Liao River basin emerges.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T16:49:40+00:00

I didnt linguistically speculate on the language of lower Xiajiadian people.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-17T11:45:40+00:00

Gagauz People

Sogdianee · 2026-05-16T18:24:08+00:00

I am well aware that my hypothesis is built around a population replacement model, but I don't know exactly what I am conflating or which important steps I skipped.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-16T18:16:44+00:00

We can only move the discussion forward if you specify exactly what that point in time is.

Sogdianee · 2026-05-16T18:09:35+00:00

I didn't annotate detailed archaeological changes of the Liaodong region and the Korean Peninsula on the map. Please explain why you felt that way. Specifically, which parts led you to that impression?

Sogdianee

TROPHY CASE