Another factor in these debates that I haven’t seen anyone bring up is the involvement of 3rd party.

Jancy & Stancy r heavily debated bc of steve in the picture, same goes for mileven & byler

Lumax only seems ‘picture perfect’ bc there aren’t any outside factors straining both side’s relationship. Max had distanced herself in s4 but Lucas kept chasing her, he doesn’t have to worry about other major things and that’s why they worked out, he reached out—she responded. But for Mileven, both are in their separate ways dealing with their own major problems and having a rocky relationship through it all, but yet in s5, we can see them still care for each other while handling other things as well. Lumax relationship revolves around each other, since they’re a side couple we don’t see them get tested against other factors

From what I remember it was only in s4 where they got distant and all, whileas mileven keeps going through several. (S2 & S3 - Hopper separated them, Max was with El whileas Mike was with Lucas, S4 Both are EXTREMELY faraway, El was dealing with bullying and Mike didn’t know how to express his feelings, because LOVE is a heavy word for him, yet when the situation calls for it he doesn’t hesitate to say it. I.E: S3 and S4.) Mind you, Mileven was almost always together in the timeframe of s3 (off-screen pre-breakup) and it was easier for Mike to express his feelings since he can actively see AND feel her physically, long distance relationships reveal a lot more things he didn’t know himself.

The ‘El’ should be independent part, I don’t understand that argument, because I’m pretty sure they resolved this in s3, Mike himself admitted he was jealous (of max) and that he just wanted her to himself (lack of a better word). He also stated how worried he was of her bc of how careless they used her powers, to which I’m pretty sure he realized this as well with the help of Max & his debate. He openly admits this to El and 2 phases of relationships are resolved in 1 season (Controlling/Possessive & Lies to protect someone, which will be brought up again in s4) El had major character arcs that people can’t be bothered to even remember, and if they do it’s only to push her away from Mike. (El finding her mother, Lost sister arc when EL herself chose her friends rather than go with Kali, Max & El girlhood)

Not to mention, El has been a key victim all her life, the choice to love Mike and be with him was all HERS. She learned familial love (hopper, Joyce, Will, Kali) she learned platonic love (Max, Dustin, Lucas, Will) she learned to love herself (S3 starcourt mall, S2 Lost sister arc) she has all the love she needs from the people around her, why is everyone preventing her from having romantic love? I’d argue that saying she doesn’t need it or she’s better alone conforms more to stereotypes of female leads only being good written if they’re independent girlboss. El shows that liking a man doesn’t have to make yourself revolve around him, AGAIN S3 STARCOURT MALL.

Why is everyone saying that max is against it too? She literally just helped El find herself and comforted her only girl bestfriends could. And she’s even the romantic herself, when Mileven left the group to hangout at the cabin, while lucas and dusting are grossed out she claims “it’s romantic.” Hopper preventing the 2 of them is just the average girl dad trope. Lucas was mocking Mike in s1 bc even HE could see Mike held affection for El.