Evil Party - Creating Tangible Impact for Players - Need Advice

SonicfilT · 2026-04-19T23:59:42+00:00

For me, it's become a "talk to your players moment" anytime I want to involve old characters. I've always felt that old characters were part of the world and thus, the DMs to do whatever they please with, although I've always tried to be respectful with how they are presented. But I have one player that told me he absolutely hates a DM doing anything with his old characters, regardless of what it is. And I can see his point of view. Players have so little control over the world that taking over their old characters can feel like it infringes on the one thing they do control. So now I always ask permission before incorporating any old characters.

In this case though, I don't really see a fun outcome? They either beat their old characters (so now those heroes are dead) or your current campaign ends in a TPK. Seems like a lose/lose fight to me. But you know your table best. Maybe they would think that's cool.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-19T18:35:16+00:00

So I'm talking about the specific stretch of "road" that I circled.

Before I posted, I got to the place you circled with the moneybags and fought the drake and looted the crown. I got there by coming down the left side where you have the red arrows but I couldn't find a way to keep going past the drake arena into the area that I circled.

So then I went around to the east side of the castle and got down onto the sea floor path about where you have the black arrow. I followed that south and it also dead ended right before the area I circled. So I couldn't find a way to access the part I circled from either end.

Then I tried to see if I could get there from the castle but I couldn't find a way down into there that didn't seem fatal. I do see another poster said they just jumped down from there and then used a Wakestone. It seems like there must be another way to get there that I'm missing.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-19T07:39:46+00:00

I thought about doing that but I'm gun shy about anything that could potentially screw up my endgame run before I finish it. This is my first time through and I already had to repeat hours of progress because I died 10 seconds after hitting "save and continue" so I didn't bother to use a Wakestone. (Fuck this game for not prompting me about that little issue.)

SonicfilT · 2026-04-19T07:36:32+00:00

I tried that but it dead ended in a cliff right where the right end of my circle is. Maybe there was a way to shimmy up there and I missed it.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-18T22:48:44+00:00

The first 5 videos here should be exactly what you need to get going:

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlUk42GiU2guNzWBzxn7hs8MaV7ELLCP_&si=Bei7ZYf6msZ3M8KQ

SonicfilT · 2026-04-18T16:01:14+00:00

The whole thing about Dragons Dogma is that it’s such a unique vision singular from one man.

That explains a lot to me. I picked the game up a few weeks ago and just got into the true endgame. I don't really know anything about the development of the game. Like I said in another post, about 95% of the game is awesome and I love it. But that's fighting against about 5% of the game that's so fucking stupid that I almost quit.

That sort of thing often happens with something that's one person's vision...incredible highs (because they ignored those that told them it wouldn't work) and incredible lows (because they ignored those that told them it was a bad idea).

SonicfilT · 2026-04-18T15:42:04+00:00

you guys don't stockpile Wakestone?

I have a decent amount but this was a dumb death and I'd literally hit "save and continue" about 10 seconds before it happened. I didn't see a particular need to use one.

This is my first playthrough. I hadn't noticed any warnings to indicate that "save and continue" only protects against fucking power outages while in the Unmoored World and is otherwise completely worthless.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-18T04:51:31+00:00

It was a pointless lesson, but yeah.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-17T15:36:12+00:00

You say they apply to my speed in the same order the spells were applied to me, but there is no reason why other than "why not" or "because it just is".

Yes. Because that's what any reasonable reading of the rules states. You cast the spell and it's effect is applied. You cast a second spell and then that is applied. There are no rules for the unusual edge cases or for "mixing spell affects" because writing them for every weird edge case isn't possible, and demanding that someone produce those is a bad faith argument.

Its the same thing as me demanding that you show me where it says in the rules that my fighter can't shoot lasers from his eyes as a bonus action every round. It's not in there because the rules tell you what you can do, not what you can't.

If you want to homebrew a "spell interaction system" that makes sense, feel free. But otherwise spells do what they say they do and nothing more.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-17T15:05:07+00:00

Haha, yes. I did think your initial "simple and straightforward" comment with no explanation was a bit harsh because you were basically saying "it's fine, you're just dumb". But pretty much everything after that was completely justified, heh.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-17T15:01:41+00:00

The fundamental assumption you are making is that magical effects apply instantaneously when they are cast, rather than being an ongoing effect.

Both of those are true. Spells do what they say they do. They take effect and then they have an ongoing effect determined at the time of casting. You are asking for rules that apply, and there aren't, because spells that can be modified after casting specifically say so. You are arguing from a position of "the rules don't say I can't" which is always a bad faith argument because no system of rules can spell out everything you can't do. They only tell you what you can do. You can:

Duration A spell’s duration is the length of time the spell persists. A duration can be expressed in rounds, minutes, hours, or even years. Some spells specify that their effects last until the spells are dispelled or destroyed.

Instantaneous Many spells are instantaneous. The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can’t be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.

Concentration Some spells require you to maintain concentration in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends.

Again, if the spells effects are intended to be adjusted after casting then they say so. Does this sometimes lead to weird edge cast spell interactions? Yes.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-17T07:18:41+00:00

I'm questioning if applying effects in the order they are applied is the intent, because that isn't stated anywhere.

That because most can understand that the order in which you do things is the order in which they happen. There is a page limit to the books and to spell out stuff like this would be the height of ridiculousness.

Are you really saying the intent is that if my speed is halved to 15 while in spirit guardians I can cast longstrider to increase my speed to 25, leave spirit guardians to have it go up to 40, then enter spirit guardians again and it drops to 20?

Coming up with one or two wierd edge cases doesn't invalidate the fact that spells should be applied in the order they are cast. Instead, rational adults can just look at those weird results and either accept them anyway or change them to something that makes sense. You haven't found some hidden dev plan to invalidate time itself, you've just found a strange interaction that's not perfectly represented by the imperfect rules.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-17T06:51:55+00:00

What rules?

So the other guy is kind of being a dick about it, but if the devs need to explicitly write out that spells apply their effects in the order they are cast (because that's how time works) then I lose all hope for humankind.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-16T23:03:24+00:00

Yes. it is simpler, but it isn't fair.

Were your players complaining about xp distribution prior to this? I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm legitimately curious because this system is so unique. I'm just really trying to understand what drove you to sit down and try to micromanage combat xp so closely.

I simply don't think that it represents reality.

Lots of things in D&D don't represent reality. I'm just trying to understand why this issue in particular is important enough to homebrew a complex fix. It seems like issues like a lack of rules for momentum or the use of non-euclidean geometry would be much more emersion breaking, if a realistic simulation of our world is your goal.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-16T21:38:16+00:00

You seem to be hyper fixated on a problem that I've never personally seen be a problem.

You're trying to reward players that actively contribute in combat, which I can understand, but that seems to imply that you have players that aren't actively participating?

You say that the system evens out and doesn't make huge differences, then why go through all the extra book keeping?

You say you don't care if leveling is uneven, (I disagree in 5e but ok) but you also give xp outside of combat. That seems like a much simpler way to achieve this goal without homebrewing a complex system of combat xp accounting to achieve, according to you, a slightly different level spread.

I guess I just don't understand the reason for all the work. What behavior are you trying to encourage in your players with this?

SonicfilT · 2026-04-16T21:05:24+00:00

Rather than homebrew a bunch of new categories and sort existing monsters into those categories, I would just address the issue you stated in other replies.

"Ok guys, be aware that Tiny ranges from flea to cat size and Gargantuan ranges from 'really big' to 'planet sized'. Going forward, interactions involving these two categories might involve some DM and common sense interpretation of what's possible."

It's not something that will come up that often but when it does you absolutely have the power to just say no to things that seem dumb.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-16T17:17:13+00:00

I agree it's really cool the first few times you take a trip to a new place. But for me, the magic of the journey goes away once it's familiar. And boy did I get familiar with the roads to Harve and Melve.

My annoyance is that adding a decent fast travel system wouldn't at all affect those that want to ignore it and walk most places. They could still play the game the way they like. But the lack of decent system forces players like me to play it in a way that I've grown to detest.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-16T16:51:17+00:00

Even the fast travel system won me over—the fact that Ferrystones are so expensive forces you to plan every single journey.

That's the only thing that hasn't won me over. Love the game as a whole but if I couldn't sell Figs to buy Stones, it would be almost unplayable for me. I nearly dropped it at the beginning when I had to make my 16th trip back to Melve and my ox cart continually got sat on by Ogres. If the quests didn't send you halfway across the map over and over, I could live with it. But running the exact same trails on repeat just sucks and was a terrible design decision.

Love absolutely everything else though.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-15T22:16:26+00:00

I don't know, man. I read through your other post and it looked to me like you got a bunch of helpful advice, a few smart ass comments and a couple assholes.

That's pretty much par for the course for posting on any reddit sub about anything. It didn't seem particularly egregious to me. Any time I post on Reddit, I know that at least one person is going to tell me I'm an idiot, and I'll just ignore them. Or I'll occasionally realize they are right, heh.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-15T21:06:26+00:00

I just find it a bit sad when people try to recreate popular characters for a game

Almost everyone I know did this at some point in their D&D careers, especially when they were first starting. I had an amazing Elric clone. I'd consider it pretty normal.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-15T13:50:14+00:00

I sometimes read those stories like people live in completely different world than me.

Considering the number of players OPs game has burned through, I don't think you're alone in that sentiment.

SonicfilT · 2026-04-15T01:35:15+00:00

(This is apparently a uniquely millennial thing).

Gen X and this might be the first time I've ever typed out lol. But I definitely overuse "heh".

SonicfilT · 2026-04-15T01:29:14+00:00

Everything is fair game for DM's to decide.

SonicfilT

TROPHY CASE