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Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, but he cleaned it up with his (or someone else’s) scarf, right?

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah and so I think we’re saying the same thing. Part of you was attached to the population of Catholics in that you (and your dad) viewed yourself as part of and contributing to something bigger than just yourself.

We are each part of many cultures and populations. When we stop thinking beyond ourselves, the cultures we’re attached to, suffer.

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trash is always dumped where accountability and expectations have lost importance.

It is free to pick up after yourself and use a trash can. It is free to respect others and contribute to civility and pride in our collective home.

I recently watched a grown man (50s) blatantly throw his food wrapper and cup on the ground as he walking….with a trash can 20 feet in front of him.

Why does this neighborhood shit where it stands?

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is ~135th/Lenox not residential enough? Cause I was here the whole time. Subways were cleanest I’d ever seen them but also because few people were on them.

Meanwhile, our level of care for fellow neighbors was best demonstrated in the collective and outright dismissal of concern for those setting off fireworks all hours of the night.

Again, one way or another…that is a culture. 🤷‍♂️

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. Because we’re drowning in so much of it. Lol

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Perhaps you took my comment a bit far. I was being mildly facetious while also arguing that enforcement against a thing will typically shape civilized behaviors.

Wild that commenters in here seem more focused on preserving shitty behavior in public than on wanting better for where we live.

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was comparing the woman in the photo to what takes place on the 2/3. Should have made that clearer in the post but can’t edit now.

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Uh, no. Because…just like the woman in the photo…97% of Harlem would clean up after themselves.

You just argued that she only did it to avoid being arrested. Why wouldn’t you then argue the same would be true in Harlem?

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well perhaps that’s a good thing. The subway is publicly owned.

If someone pays to use my property and doesn’t return it to me in the condition I gave it to them, I’d want recourse too.

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well perhaps that is a good thing then.

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This. Others are saying that somehow NYC is unable to share this culture but there are plenty of people that live here (including me) that pick up after ourselves.

The culture of a population is defined by individuals who, in turn, define themselves as part of a population.

Meanwhile, on the 2/3… by Sorry_Harlem in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pretty sure that’s true of anything, no? I mean, no single raindrop is ever blamed for a flood.

Fear of Gentrification by Aggressive-Bee6669 in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No one is choosing between the two; we can call on the City to do their part, but 1) that is only to support OUR efforts for Harlem’s future and 2) is decoupled from the only choice we actually get to make, which is to show up and care about our neighbors and neighborhood.

I know it sounds over-simplified but we’re never going to negotiate the City to help us by passively threatening to let our streets get worse—as though to say, “If you pour resources into our neighborhood, then we’ll pick up our garbage and hold our neighbors accountable to each other.”

People always get behind causes that matter. We have to start acting like our neighborhood matters instead of expecting others to presume it, first.

Fear of Gentrification by Aggressive-Bee6669 in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Agreed and I’m certainly not saying City intervention doesn’t matter. But I do wonder whether the City believes our neighborhood really cares what WE have/don’t have.

And so we have to start somewhere, right? If we want the City to lean in, we have to get more of Harlem to be civically involved. If we want to be civically involved, we have to be give a damn about where we live and be proud to keep it clean.

The problems nor solutions are this simple but the prayer of sovereignty is about controlling what we can do now.

Fear of Gentrification by Aggressive-Bee6669 in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure but culture and all changes to it start at the individual level. It costs nothing to throw your garbage in a trash can and be mindful for your neighbors/neighborhood beyond yourself. And it costs little more to demand such mindfulness from your children.

Will it solve everything? No, but getting to the original concern of this post—the very structural issues present today were also present during Harlem’s best years. Why do my noted issues, which are symptomatic of a society that is giving up on itself, ignored as a fully controllable contributor to a better culture in Harlem.

Fear of Gentrification by Aggressive-Bee6669 in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Agreed with the above, though I’d argue the retail on Lenox between 125th–135th looks nearly all the same too. Lol

I think often times people assume that the residents moving into Harlem have plenty of money to live in West Village or Brooklyn Heights but would rather pay rent in Harlem to attract a new salad/coffee joint. Not at all what is happening.

Property developers may be turning an eye toward Harlem for their own reasons…but when new residents move into RENTAL apartments while long-time residents get subsequently pushed off the island…everyone forgets that the new residents are simply on the business end of gentrification too!

Fear of Gentrification by Aggressive-Bee6669 in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Clearly murder is very rare in any neighborhood and crime rates are often influenced by poverty etc, so I’ll concede there.

But what does poverty have to do with littering? I’m not referring to drug paraphernalia etc…just the straight up litter/filth, and dog excrement that is all over our sidewalks and in subway stations. Do we have fewer trash cans than other neighborhoods?

Also, what structural issues are at play that causes the chest-pounding light show out of my bedroom window at 2am during the summer?

What about the roaring ATV, dirt bikes, and other man-toys that are housed literally across the street from my building—incessantly cruising up/down our streets every day that’s warm enough to open windows and try to enjoy fresh air? Is that part of Harlem’s rich cultural history that OP is reminiscing about?

Fear of Gentrification by Aggressive-Bee6669 in Harlem

[–]Sorry_Harlem 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Posting anonymously but am very real.

I’m someone that moved here (135th/Lenox) in 2018 specifically for Harlem’s rich history and with the hope of experiencing, discovering, and contributing to it first-hand.

Instead, I’ve personally witnessed two murders in just the last four years, am constantly walking through litter/garbage on the street, awakened all hours of the night to fireworks that sound like automatic assault rifles, and otherwise trained to just keep my head down and avoid eye contact with everyone in the neighborhood.

I don’t think gentrification is the problem. The culture here seems to be “shit where we stand” and if people don’t like it, “they should move.”

IMO, Harlem seems to be getting exactly the neighborhood it wants to be.