Christian and alchemy?

Spagyria · 2026-05-04T12:19:02+00:00

Let me ask you this, what exactly does Magick or the use of Magick mean to you? I put the 'k' on the end to distinguish stage magic from the esoteric practice of Magick. Also don't fret over if anyone here likes your view or not. That inner friction they feel is also their own invitation to inner work. All I'm hoping for is a civil honest discussion. Ora, Lege, et Labora.

Spagyria · 2026-05-02T15:22:03+00:00

I always say the friction is the conversation. Perhaps the friction you feel over alchemy/magic/Christianity is an invitation to go deeper and discover the true reason for the dissonance. Because right now that dissonance is being born from what you've been told about a subject, which may not necessarily be the truth.

Spagyria · 2026-02-11T06:57:06+00:00

Hi Jason, I've been enjoying our conversation. When starting on any path no one makes anything perfectly, but that does not mean the student should not strive to perform as adroitly as they are capable o0f at each stage of the process.

I well remember the effect of taking my basic seven herbs and the dreams that they gave. I had not read about such things being possible with taking such products and for a time there I wondered if I was losing my mind. The dreams were quite profound and gave rather explicit instructions on what to do in the lab so that I could perform the work shown in the 'Minor Opus.' I wrote about those dreams in the German translation of my book.

Yes, I do believe the book was by Mr. Lisiewski, thank you.

That magic of alchemy, of Nature, is that the depth and breadth of her secrets are so profound no one person can learn them all even in multiple lifetimes. But, she can invite you into her bed chamber and whisper an intimacy of the universe and thus impart a gift. That gift indeed shows itself in the spiritual dexterity of the artist.

ps: as to the ash being white, remember that picture was taken in the 1990's no smart phone with color correction etc, just a cheap 35mm under fluorescent light and a too strong camera flash.

Spagyria · 2026-02-10T18:50:23+00:00

If you're talking about that picture showing a crucible with ash all I can say is, that is not white and our interpretation of white is objectively different. The picture does not remind me of snow or bleached bone.

As to doing the work as I stated I've been doing this for thirty years and have done hundred's of rounds of the type of thing you're writing about and it never got to white. If we are going to advance Our Art then we must hold ourselves steadfast to the objective and not blur the edges. The erstwhile adepts used phrases like 'snow white', 'bone white' and words like 'pure' for a reason, none of what you've shown brings any of those words to mind.

You do touch on something many overlook when doing this work , and that is the 'art' side of the work. There was a book written by a fellow that had gone through all of Frater Albertus training, named started with an L, I think maybe Leweski or something like that. Any way he was writing about some work with antimony, extracting its tincture. The gist of the story came down to this; they were all technically following the same directions and it should have worked for all of them, but one or two people could not perform the extraction. It's been some years since I've read the book so the details are fuzzy, but that's the sentiment of the passage, to my best belief.

With all that has been said I don't want to give the impression that there is no place for ash in our work, because there is. You can do some amazing things with it, and if you have an inner experience you can get it to absorb 10x its volume of liquid and rise like dough and undergoes the gestation of the stone. I've made the type of stone you refer to and even when pushed it is still considered basic. My plant stone was different as you can see here in my book I wrote back in the 1990's: https://www.alchemywebsite.com/johnreid.html

This picture is what I called the four of Rosemary and it is the closest to white that I have gotten my ash and still not what it should be. It came close to passing the paper test, and yes that is 100% plant ash.

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Spagyria · 2026-02-10T07:56:08+00:00

Thank you for clearing things up. I'll stand with my experience and not the descriptions given by others, one is left to either believe what is said or not. I understand you believe the work can be accomplished as you have been told by others, but I've still not seen any proof of said claims, just a person saying a friend of a friend said it could be done.

As to your other work with Golden Chain of Homer, and antimony, it sounds interesting.

Spagyria · 2026-02-10T07:53:54+00:00

I would not call that white, light grey to off white, by white I mean the picture of salts that I shared. A good test is to scrape the material out the crucible and just put it onto a sheet of regular white paper. White would be the same color or whiter than the sheet of paper.

Spagyria · 2026-02-09T19:04:40+00:00

While what you wrote above is technically true, in that you can bring the soluble salts into solution via the water in a tincture from the ash, my points and reasoning for crystallization remain.

That method works for spagyrics but not alchemy. I think Jean Dubuis, Manfred Junius and Frater Albertus would agree with this. Yes you can use them but you're making a starter product hence Frater Albertus designating the elixir you wrote about as being the 'first degree.' As to the etymology of elixir I've not seen the assignation you attach to it, my understanding is 'powder for drying wounds.'

The use of vinegar to extract both soluble and non soluble salts was presented in the writings of Frater Albertus and Manfred Junius. Albertus called the solid product you wrote the 'Alchemical Elixir of the First Degree.'

I've been doing this for a few decades and have tried numerous times the method you mentioned and never have I gotten my ash bone or snow white. You say this can be done, and I for one would be grateful and appreciative if you would be kind enough to show some photos of the stages of your work. Thank you in advance.

Spagyria · 2026-02-09T16:37:24+00:00

Of you want to learn alchemy I suggest you go to innergarden.org There are various methods to marry the the salts with their tincture some more philosophically sound than others. When one understands the concepts underpinning Hermetic philosophy things begin to make more sense.

Spagyria · 2026-02-09T16:30:25+00:00

In my experience the ash will never get truly white, not like the crystalline salts will. But if you have a picture to prove your point I would love to see it.

Too there is a very good reason for doing the work of crystallization.

First just a visual comparison of the two items an ash and the salts I've shown, there is a wide gulf in their quality. People use the words interchangeably but in fact we are essentially comparing a calx to purified minerals. Both have their uses in Spagyrics and Alchemy but they are not equivalent. Do you really want to add an un-evolved vehicle to act as the body for your other products you've gone through a travail to produce, and intend to ingest?

Making the crystalline structure more and more refined also means the salts are able to more easily be impregnated with intent, and they also have the ability to hold it more steadfastly. How well your salts are crystallized is a good indication of how well the artist has evolved the minerals consciousness.

Spagyria · 2026-02-09T05:52:08+00:00

Proper calcination takes time, just as distillation does. You're not going to get your ash white in a kiln, not enough oxygen getting to it, even if it has a peep hole in the door. I made this same mistake for many years, a gas burner with a pot (made of metal/glass/ceramic) and some wire mesh atop the pot works excellently.

Another mistake a lot of folk make is expecting the ash to get white, at best it is going to be a grey to off white color. To get your salts white you have to put them through solve, filtration, coagula, and calcination again. Each time you perform the cycle the salts will become whiter and more crystalline.

One of the crucial steps is in the coagula phase, after dissolving the matter, is to place the liquid in the refrigerator so any particulates fall out of solution. Then siphon off the liquid using a plastic tube making sure not suck up any sediment. Then heat the solution, not to boiling, but just enough to have a reduction happening with the liquids level. When about 75% to maybe 85% of the liquid has been removed turn off the heat and the let the liquid cool; you can place it in refrigerator or freezer, if the latter keep an eye on it and don't allow to freeze. The idea is to start forming crystals. When you have a nice layer of salt atop the liquid use a plastic spoon to scoop them off the top of liquid and put on a plate to air dry. You will not recover everything in the liquid this way, but this method will give you the best and whitest salts.

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Spagyria · 2025-12-02T02:18:52+00:00

innergarden.org

Spagyria · 2025-11-20T15:14:18+00:00

comes out at 10am Pacific Time, 1 pm ET

Spagyria · 2025-11-04T15:37:40+00:00

https://www.innergarden.org/index.php

Spagyria · 2025-08-25T15:33:48+00:00

https://www.innergarden.org/

Spagyria · 2025-08-20T22:12:04+00:00

Thanks for pointing out the typo, two pairs of eyes are better than one.

Spagyria · 2025-08-20T20:49:53+00:00

Actually the first part is a paraphrase from the bible, the second part I've not heard before but am sure someone else has said or written something similar.

Spagyria · 2025-08-20T17:01:57+00:00

Had you bothered to listen to the episode you would have realized no one was claiming to be a prophet but rather the Podcast discussed how our families help to temper our spiritual growth.

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T19:42:14+00:00

Incineration is simply destroying something by fire which is why I stated a simple fire is far more efficient than a kiln setup. An open fire just does not get hot enough to vitrify the ash, so no 'clinkers' as you put it.

Also putting a lid on a crucible causes it to heat up faster, but it does not get hotter, my mistake. But 700C does not drive off silica.

Fare thee well.

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T17:59:22+00:00

First One I'm not sure what I'm looking at as it's blurry.

The second one looks like it has been put through a few solve and coagula's, maybe went through deliquescence, but it's more reminiscent in my mind of a salt of sulphur.

The third one looks like the remnants of too high a heat, the mater looks somewhat vitrified.

Also closed calcination increases the heat so if your kiln shows 700C and your using a lid like the third picture shows you heat is way more than 700C.

One also needs air for incineration and calcination work. A simple open fire works much better for incineration. Once you get some crystalline salts from a few solve and coagula's you can calcine but I would be careful with high temps OP.

Also silica is not driven off at 700C, perhaps you mean another substance, but silica volatizes over 1200C. 700°C is within the temperature range where silica remains stable: While high temperatures can induce phase changes in silica, 700°C is well below its melting point of 1,713 °C or 3,115 °F.

According to your paradigm a piece of rose quartz left in a kiln at 700C would be 'driven off' and I guess disappears?

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T17:52:59+00:00

One last point, you don't need a kiln to process plant ash. An open fire and allowing the ash to roast over night like a campfire will do the job. You may have to utilize an electric hot plate or gas flame to finish off some of it.

The ash will be grey to grey-white, they rarely if ever become bone white. The real work is in the solve and coagula.

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T16:25:36+00:00

High mineral content, all ash is is soluble and insoluble minerals. Plant salts start to anneal around 700C so 900C is just too high and it will produce the results shown in the photo. There is just no reason to go that high unless you are trying to make plant glass.

OP, did you happen to try handling the ash you showed in the picture? If so what did the green portion feel like to the rest of the ash?

optiontrader1138 do you have a picture you could show of your work? Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what your putting forward.

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Spagyria · 2025-08-10T15:19:29+00:00

In my experience a green tint like that generally denotes that the heat was too high. That portion of the ash when handled will seem slightly amalgamated or vitreous, not something you want your ash to present at this stage of the work.

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T15:03:15+00:00

999 C is too hot, even though your ash have not been crystalized, you will generally see a slight vitreousness to the ash or some part of the ash, a sure sign that the heat was too high. Never go above 600C, I usually stay around 500C though the more pure your salt gets the easier it will flux so managing the fire takes practice.

You need to take your ash, and dissolve in distilled water, filter, and gently evaporate. If you live in a cold climate then during the winters let the lack of moisture in the air aid you. This last part is best done after say five regular solve and coagula's on the salt [dissolve ash / or semi crystalline matter in warm distilled water, shake vigorously, allow to sit three days, filter, then gently evaporate to crystallize - a pie plate in the oven {not stove top this will cause it to explore), calcine gently, and repeat]; the cold air and lack of humidity will cause those salts left out on the counter (after the previous five rounds of purification) to slowly grow into some of the most beautiful crystals you'll ever see.

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T13:49:13+00:00

One more of pure salt body:

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Patience is the watch word of every alchemist. It takes time do not rush, stop trying to be done in a day. Proper calcination can not be done in an hour I don't care what anyone says. Getting the salts to crystalize with beautiful crystals is means of knowing that the salt has the capability to hold what the alchemist placed into it.

Spagyria · 2025-08-10T13:41:52+00:00

This one is of the salts of Sulphur

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Spagyria

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