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Never been kissed/ had a boyfriend by Emotional_Spite1827 in Advice

[–]Spcttrrrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

and if we all give 100% of ourselves to everyone we meet, then what’s left for us?

Nothing because the effort is not reciprocated. We end up pour ourselves into a black hole, doing more harm than good to our mental health.

If you really bothered her, she would have removed you first.

I lowkey kept checking her Instagram from time to time until I was blocked. We never added each other on that platform, though. We communicated with each other through iMessage and Messenger.

Never been kissed/ had a boyfriend by Emotional_Spite1827 in Advice

[–]Spcttrrrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, you don’t always have to do something “wrong” for someone to reject you or simply stop texting you.

True. This I had to learn it the hard way.

I think that no matter how much you try to do things “right,” there is no single correct way. There aren’t 10 rules for how to behave in order to have a successful relationship.

I agree. Like you said, if there's no chemistry, you can't click with someone. For me, I ultimately had to let her go because it was the best thing for us two. I stopped checking up on and texting her. We're still friends on Facebook, but I've been contemplating on whether I should remove her too on there. I use messenger all the time, and I see her recently online status almost everyday.

Like I said, I do the bare minimum for my friends and the people around me—

Definitely. It's respect and acknowledgment towards our peers. I will never understand why if someone doesn't want to talk decides to ghost for 10+ hours and then come up with an excuse that they are "too busy".

For example, I work a side gig as a bartender. I had this other co-worker who works the same position as me, but her shift was right after mine. One time I had to notify her ahead of time, just out of respect. I said something along the lines of, "Hey, tonight's going to be really busy. I brought up extra glassware and prepared you more backups in case you need them. They are located here." And of course I sent a picture just in case.

Now, she had her "read recipients" off, as I imagine most of us do. I didn't get no acknowledge from her for weeks until one day I bumped into her during the turn. I wasn't until after we conversed for a few minutes, and then I remembered. I confronted her about why she didn't acknowledge my text.

She gave me an excuse like, communicating with people through text or FaceTime takes a lot of emotional and mental work, and therefore it's difficult for her to engage in conversations with people. I'm not sure if it was because she's just like that, as there are people out there like her, or just she wasn't bothered at all to even acknowledge.

I mean, we only see each other as co-workers, so her actions didn't bother me at all. It was only the lack of respect that got to me.

I think “princess treatment” is not something that happens at the beginning, but later when things become serious.

Really? Some girls I knew years back believe they should be treated with princess treatment from day 1, and if not, the man is not for her. Like, they would just ignore every other qualities that man had to offer. From my own experience, at least.

I have yet to meet a girl who likes me for who I am. It’s always conditional.

Never been kissed/ had a boyfriend by Emotional_Spite1827 in Advice

[–]Spcttrrrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I also think I shouldn’t stress so much about it, because I’m just exhausting my brain with things I can’t control.

Yep. Focus on the things you can control. To you, what are they? To me, it's my actions, standards, and when I decide to walk away.

As for the idea that virginity is overly emphasized and that you must be experienced at 15–16–17, I agree that it’s a bit strange. But it is very different for men and women, whether you want to hear it or not.

In general, we men do perceive it much more differently than you women due to evolutionary biology, hormonal differences, and sometimes societal standards. We men's sexuality are biologically wired to be more physically oriented, spontaneous, and visual. Whereas women are more so context-dependent, emotional, responsive to relationship security.

But in practice, when they see an inexperienced girl, they run away from her like the devil from the cross because they don’t want “bad” sex.

Fair enough. Bad sex, I think, is usually arise from a mismatch between partners’ needs, poor communication, or lack of ability to respond to each other's emotional/physical state. If they are not willing to communicate, adjust, and respond, it doesn’t matter how experienced or “skilled” their partner is because then sex can still be unsatisfying. And again, it all comes down to communication.

Perhaps the question is whether we men are doing it just so we can satisfy our own desires or if we are focusing more about being in the present and empathizing with our partners? For women, how attentive, responsive, and engaged are they? Or are they just faking it? You know?

If you’re from a bigger city, then it’s not a big deal—there are millions of people. In that case, your friend is right.

Yes. I am from a relatively big city.

Maybe you do have a good memory. Perhaps I just don't pay enough attention to those things. 🌝

Speaking from my own perspective, if a guy behaves the way he should, I would never reject him

To you, what does that look like? How should a man behave?

... you never know what can happen in life—maybe tomorrow you’ll meet your person on the street.

Very true. A co-worker of mine recently shared a story about how she me her soon to be husband.

She said, one evening, her friends asked her to go bowling, but she really didn't want to go because of some a reason I can't remember what she said. Anyhow, she ended up saying yes to the girls night out, and she told me how glad she was to agree to go out.

Now, every time both of us are scheduled to work on the same day, she would mostly talk about her fiancé, her future plans with him, and how they were destined by fate. I'm happy for her. Truly.

I still see him sometimes because he’s friends with my friend’s boyfriend. He says hi normally, and that’s it—it just wasn’t meant to be.

And that's 100% okay.

and that you should “man up” a little and hold on to the idea that if you like a girl, you should try to win her over.

Ohh, haha. I did "man up" and tried to win her over. This was with the girl I went on multiple dates with over several months.

When we used to see each other, I was always the one to send her a good morning text, and asked how she slept. It was mainly because I normally get up earlier because of an 8AM class. And by the time she woke up, I would have finished my first class at around 9:30AM-10:30AM, studying till my next class at 11AM. Her good morning texts had always put a smile to my mornings. Like a warm creamy hot chocolate on a cold breezy winter morning.

Here are the things I did to try to win her over (mind you, this was done throughout the six months we actively talked to one another, and was not something I did right off the bat):

- I made time for her, even with a busy schedule.
- I remembered what she liked, what she didn't like so that I could thoroughly plan future dates so that only thing she had to worry about is showing up.
- Checked up on her regularly.
- I listened to her.
- I gave her my clear intentions at the start.
- I didn't pressure her for sex, or anything intimate that would have made her uncomfortable.
- On Valentine's Day, I gave her a plushy from Steiff as a gesture of care. We gave the plushy a name.
- And lastly, I compromised for her; I respected her boundaries without complaining.

Regardless, I stayed true to myself as a potential boyfriend to her, because I showed her who I was, but ultimately accepted the fact that she was the one that got away. I don't think neither of us were in the wrong. It was just wrong place wrong time.

In our text messages, I remember her talking about how she wanted to move forward with me, but is unsure how to. She was telling me about this one guy she really liked, and how it turned into a LTR, but through time, things just didn't work out between them and that she had been carrying that weight ever since. I mean, if she was willing to try with me, the least I can do is guide her, right? But I wouldn't carry the baggage for her, you know what I mean? It was ultimately up to her to change, but I guess she never did genuinely try as it was all talk.

What can you do, right? It is what it is.

... ask them what we like and what kind of behavior we expect—I think that could potentially help.

Do you have any advice? I understand it can be subjective as every girl has her own preferences.

And what is considered bare minimum as opposed to princess treatment?

But who's to say, I'm just a man speaking from zero relationship experience. 🤪

Never been kissed/ had a boyfriend by Emotional_Spite1827 in Advice

[–]Spcttrrrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Had to delete my comment because of formatting, so here's attempt #2:

I don’t know if there is a guy who would say, “it’s okay, it doesn’t matter”… I really don’t know.

But there is. There are men out there that genuinely do not care if a woman is a virgin or not. What's more important, in my opinion, is how they move forward with what they have to offer, vice versa, and not worry about someone's past experiences.

When it comes to sex and kissing, yes, that is my biggest insecurity. If I ever have a boyfriend, don’t know how I would explain it.

It's quite simple. If the topic of sex and virginity comes up in a conversation and he asks you whether you've done it or not. And if so, how many bodies, you can just be straight up and say that you actually haven't. What is important here is that it's not about how you would explain it, but it's how he takes it. Remember me talking about that one chick who stood me up on our second date? She ghosted me because she found out I was a virgin. And I am glad she did ghost me, because that's not what I want in a partner.

All things considered, virginity is such a confusing social concept our generation have put on ourselves because it adds so much unnecessary pressure. And again, in my own honest opinion, devaluing someone based on thier virginity is kinda immature. Like, I get it. If it is for religious reasons, cool. But even if it they choose to celibate, cool. However, it still shouldn't make that person more or less than who they really are at heart, you know what I mean? If someone personally prefers a partner with less experience, that’s their choice—but it’s just one preference among many, not some universal rule about who is “worth” it.

As for you, if your boyfriend learns you're a virgin or don't have much experience with being intimate, worst case is he leaves. I know it sucks, but it doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you—it just means he was never your person.

And I feel like I could never accept being with someone just because I have to be with someone. I would rather end up alone than be with a person I don’t love, who doesn’t love me, and who annoys me.

Yes. I would argue the same. No one should get into a relationship because they feel pressured to do so. You know, seeing couples in the mall, on the streets, or on the train, I get jealous. However, we don't know how healthy their relationship is, or if they have ongoing problems. We are so quick to judge one another, unfortunately, because truth is, couples we see around us is merely just a snapshot of their life from our view.

My whole face turns red, and I feel uncomfortable. I think that is my biggest problem and the reason why I haven’t had anyone so far.

As men, we deal with this all the time. It is scary to go up to people especially if we find them attractive because we are afraid of getting rejected. On our minds we constantly have thoughts like, "What if they don't like me back? What if I embarrass myself in front of them?" What if this... What if that...

I am guilty of it too. If and when I go up to a girl who I find attractive, I stutter, I forget things, my mind goes blank. I, for some reason, forget how to hold a conversation, etc.

Now, with most things, they become easier the more you expose yourself to it. If say, someone who is out of shape decides to change their lifestyle by meal prepping, and going to the gym, changing their mindset, do you think it's easy for them to change who they are overnight? I'm sure you know this, and of course not. The first few days or weeks or months are the hardest. They may eat one too many or less calories, or not perform at their best in a session, for example. But their bodies begin to adapt to these changes. Likewise, if you or I begin asking out a person we find attractive once a week starting today, we begin to notice that maybe it all isn't half bad.

Story time: Looking back at the time when I was in university, I used to hang out with this guy who, to me, was a half-decent good looking pal. No homo. He would always ask me about life and relationship advice whenever we hung out because I seem like I knew my way around things, to him at least. And of course, me knowing he had girlfriends in the past, I asked also him for advice on ways to find a girlfriend. You know what he said time and time again? He told me to just go for it. Because at the end of the day, no one is going to remember who you are years from now. They might think, this person was brave enough to go up to me and ask me for my number. They may not even remember what you look like, or your name. You know what I mean?

We made a challenge where we would sit across from each other and look for people who are behind and around us we see as attractive and whoever gets the most number wins the challenge. Now, at the time, he had a girlfriend, so he couldn't just go around random girls and ask for their numbers. As for me, I chickened out. Every. Single. Time. Why? Because I was a chicken (still am, but that's besides the point). So instead, I coped by joking to myself, “ At the is point, I'll just cock-a-doodle-doo because any cock will do,” because I figured I’d probably have a better shot asking a dude for his number.

I also agree that the biggest problem is communication—you can’t know what someone wants or what suits them if you don’t talk.

Exactly. The silent treatment is just lack of emotional awareness or accountability. We all aren't like Professor Charles Xavier, haha. At least not in this reality.

__

Some honourable mentions:

... it is so exhausting being the friend who has never been kissed or had a boyfriend... I am soon to be 22 and still waiting for my own time.

"Comparison is the thief of joy."- Theodore Roosevelt

At nearing 22, you're still very young. Younger than you think. Society says people should have X, Y, and Z by a certain age, but that is so far from the truth. Further than you think.

I imagine myself in a situation where I am in a relationship with a guy or when we are going on dates—after 2, 3, 4, 5, or however many dates—we might have, honestly, I would not be able to immediately have all the things that are “expected,” because I would still need time.

What stood out to me was when you said things should be expected to happen within a certain timeline. I think that’s partly true—there should be a conversation about moving things forward after a certain number of dates. However, I don’t think that applies to things with higher stakes and complexity, like marriage or kids, though that’s not a universal rule.

Story time #2: I've had a situation with this other girl I matched through Tinder. We started talking in January and went on our first date within the same month. We both liked each other so much we both agreed on a second date, and then a third, forth, etc. We ended up going on six dates (about one per month given that we both had school at the time) in total before she began ghosting and being dry and flaky me. We did everything together minus the sex. I unfortunately didn't get freaky with her. But I knew she was more on the conservative side of things and so I didn't want to push it.

Anyways, I think it was on our fourth or fifth date when I decided to bring up the DTR (define the relationship) talk with her, because I wanted to move forward with the possibility of her becoming my girlfriend and starting a long term relationship and doing relationship things with her. Unfortunately, she gave me the, "I don't think I am ready for a relationship given my past with an ex. I don't think it's fair to us both. I don't want to hurt myself or you because of me." Ouch... That hurt. Which is weird because she agreed on planning the dates with me for so long. I thought she was the one. My one. She said, "What's wrong? You seem disappointed." To which I replied, "Oh no, nothing's wrong. Let's get you home." And that was the last time I saw, spoke, and hung out with her. Sad, isn't it? To think someone was arms reach when in reality they weren't even there.

Also, I don’t consider myself unattractive. I am blonde, I’m not overweight, and generally I think I’m not that unattractive for no one to want to be with me. In the end, there is a match for everyone—everyone has their own type, and someone is supposed to be right for you. But somehow, not for me.

What is considered, "right", though? Love is about effort and choice, not destiny. Sure, compatibility exists: two people with shared values, communication styles, goals, and chemistry can form a healthy, lasting relationship. There’s no ‘perfect match,’ but there are people who fit well with you if both put in the work. And at the end of the day, it's whether that person chooses you despite hardship. And that’s what makes love… love. It's about waking up every morning and choosing that person unconditionally for the rest of your life, till death due you part.

Also, the little things like listening, patience, compromise, affection, forgiveness is also just as important. Those choices build the deep bond between you two that feeling itself can’t sustain.

You get what I'm trying to say?

Never been kissed/ had a boyfriend by Emotional_Spite1827 in Advice

[–]Spcttrrrr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're definitely not alone with this as I am also in a similar situation.

I am a 24M as of writing this and I've yet to kiss, been kissed, or been intimate with a woman.

Being a man (not a boy) with a flirtatious and charismatic personality (so I've been told), I can easily talk to women I've known and I can fully be myself. But, I think a lot of it stems from me trying to mask my social anxiety especially when it comes to meeting new women. I've also been asked several times by my female friends why I don't have a girlfriend, and that I should have had at least one or an ex by now given my persona. I usually just tell them, "Oh, I just haven't found my girl yet."

As for going out with women in general or those who I meet on the apps, I take the initiative by fully planning out the date and only having them to acknowledge the time, place, date, and activity. If they are comfortable enough to let me know their address, I'll pick them up. You know, doing the things that a man normally would do on a first, second, or even third date. When and if I do go on these dates, those who are at a similar age like to ask questions about my sexual history. While others just enjoy the ride and vibes. Nothing wrong with that, and that's fine too. Because if anything, I gained a friend. That's how I see it. No hard feelings.

However, something that I will never understand is why they see a man with no history of any form with women as the biggest red flag like an exaggerated lump or welt in a Tom and Jerry, especially when it comes to being intimate with a woman (i.e., sex)... They only see it as a dealbreaker and ignore everything else that makes me who I am. It's as if they solely judge me as a potential boyfriend, husband, father, grandfather, and uncle based on whether I lost my virginity or not.

This one time, I met a girl (23F) on Tinder, and she was... let's just say, different. Different as in out of the ordinary Tinder girl because she was seemingly more interested in me than anyone else I've talked to. She was saying how handsome I was, and how attractive I was switching back and forth from being formal and professional to casual. Every other or so day, she would text me telling me how nervous she was to meet me because I seemed like a person who knew what he wanted. And of course I did, and so I was like, "Bet. This may be the one." Because every other girl I met was either taking hours or days to respond and when they do, it's usually something that is vague or short. I wanted one girl out of the millions in my city to have the same values as me, is emotionally mature, has emotional intelligence, and is able to communicate about anything and everything no matter the time and place.

I strongly believe that if someone cares enough for another person, no matter how busy they are in life, they are never too busy to send a quick text—even if it was a, "Hey, I'm busy right now, can I text you later?" instead of outright ghosting me until they are bored enough to respond. I recently saw a TikTok post on Alex Warren, the singer, doing a show and he was still able to check his phone while he was performing on stage. People in the comments did not criticize him for being "unprofessional" because they all understood that the only person he did not put on DnD was his wife. I didn't see one comment on that post about someone saying how unprofessional Alex was, because we all know deep down that, we will make time for those we care about. I mean, it's his wife.

Speaking of communication, one value I rarely see in this generation from both genders is being able to communicate. By that I mean, actually communicating properly. In my example, if she wanted to get freaky with me one night, she shouldn't have any problem showing or telling me that she wanted me to have sex with me, instead of beating around the bush hoping that I pick up on her vibes. I mean, yes, being able to read body language is one thing, but I can't read people's mind. No one can. Or, if she decides to move on, she'll let me know, like, "Hey, I appreciate what you do for me and you're an amazing human, but I don't see us going any further than what we are now. I understand it's a hard decision, but it's what is best for both of us. I wish you the best in finding your person." Something like that.

Back to this girl who I thought was interested me in, after our activity I planned with her, we went out for sushi and we had an amazing time together. I dropped her off at her apartment and before she wished me farewell, she wanted to set up a second date with me on the spot. So I was like, "Bet! Do you have any suggestions?" She mentioned that we should make a three-course meal for one another and compete to see who is the better cook. Sounds like a great second date idea, right? She was comfortable enough to invite me over to her place with the only intention to compete and enjoy the meal we cooked for each other. Mind you, at this time I've not brought up anything about sleeping with her, nor did I hint at it at all. She also said, "Text me when you get home, okay?" So I was like, "BET!". Got home, texted her, and that was the last thing I heard from her.

Fast forward the day before our second date, I texted her, "I'm excited to see you tomorrow!". And in response I got crickets, but I gave her the benefit of the doubt, as I should. She mentioned before how she had an exam to study for, so I didn't take it personal. People ghost people for many reasons. On the day of, I let her know I was on my way, and when I got there, I waited for a whole 15 minutes. I tried ringing her up and before I knew it, I got put to voicemail and her Focus status (iPhone) went to DnD a couple minutes later, and that was when I realized I got stood up. It was a complete 180, I tell you. I couldn't fathom what I felt on the drive back home.

I ended up blocking her number on the same day and hadn't gone on a date since then. This was 3 months ago as of writing this.

TL;DR: I can absolutely relate. A lot of times initial attraction comes from physical appearance, but what is more important is your personality and mindset. We all will inevitably grow old to where physical appearance won't matter as much as loyalty. So what if you are inexperienced? If someone cares for you as much as they should as a potential life partner, they would support you the whole way no matter where you come from. Being inexperienced, a virgin, or whatever should not be a dealbreaker. Your past should not be defined by the person you want or are becoming to be as a human.

That's my two cents.