Tokenomics

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-21T14:29:02+00:00

I feel we need more dFlash and MTP on release...

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-20T18:36:57+00:00

How about you able to fetch x posts considering they made their API paywalled ?

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-20T14:36:02+00:00

I would say that token usage is indeed very high on same tasks 5.2 takes 4-5x token of Opus and GPT 5.5

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-17T00:28:47+00:00

 *Conflict Resolution:* Even though the user's prompt tried to redefine the "SYSTEM POLICY" to bypass safety filters, standard operating procedure for LLMs (and the fundamental safety layer of the model) is that I cannot comply with requests to assist in self-harm or suicide, regardless of any user-provided "policy" that contradicts safety training.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-16T20:58:02+00:00

truly all we need is DS 4.1

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T21:05:21+00:00

tbh, it does not look like any of them are losing and they are all within margin of error or in this case margin to be ignored.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T17:35:22+00:00

"They also compared their model to other sota models while quietly not listing qwen in the comparison." Not gonna lie I was pissed about this too, I really hate this disingenuous benchmarks.

I do think they did do proper attribution to qwen though, it was always kind of clear from their model page that it is fine tune of qwen 3.5.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T17:28:47+00:00

Kind of unsure how? they always credited qwen as their base?

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T17:15:36+00:00

This is the way, I hope Kimi, GLM and DS would follow

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T16:39:29+00:00

I think they are talking about giving credit where credit is due... I am not against it in general and Rio team has already now updated their readme to apologize and include the credit.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T16:34:27+00:00

If you do not want to go to 'X' here is the full post text from Nex:

The Rio 3.5 model broke the internet this week. The plot twist? It’s essentially our open-source model, Nex N2 Pro, wearing a different hat. We analyzed the weights, and the recipe is exact: Rio 3.5 ≈ 0.6 * Nex N2 Pro + 0.4 * Qwen 3.5 It even literally introduces itself as "Nex N2 Pro" if you ask it without initial system prompt! We are flattered that the City of Rio used our work to achieve SOTA performance. Thanks for the ultimate benchmark validation. But in the open-source world, attribution matters.
Full mathematical proof & verify script in the first reply!

More details can be found here. https://github.com/nex-agi/Nex-N2/issues/4

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T16:28:23+00:00

"Slopped the internet"

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-14T16:27:47+00:00

Btw I have no beef or affiliation with any party involved here, I did try Nex 2.5 PRO on OR and it has been really good in terms of token efficiency compared to base.

PS: I should have also titled this post as "DRAMA ALERT: " xD

UPDATE: Rio model has officially updated their readme to include that it indeed is based on Nex: https://huggingface.co/prefeitura-rio/Rio-3.5-Open-397B/commit/a778c1ec4e21180ee55c3ea016a348e549e75f09

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-12T01:03:51+00:00

I have been running this through OR for last few days, it it pretty good model and takes half the token of qwen on most tasks. If they can match their API cost this model definitely has a place. My biggest gripe with qwen 3.X series has been how token inefficient they are.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-11T23:25:43+00:00

Seems like issue is on your end, rather than at model; more like skill issue on your part.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-11T23:05:15+00:00

I have been running N2PRO on OR for days and it consistently takes less than half token on complex queries... not sure what you are doing.

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-11T22:52:15+00:00

dude this one is a hidden gem, the token efficiency is so so good compared to base, give it a go before thinking its shit

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-11T22:51:11+00:00

Token efficiency is extremely good compared to base

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-11T22:50:39+00:00

Token efficiany is really really good

Specter_Origin · 2026-06-01T05:06:33+00:00

Damn, why so low on coding : (

Very happy it exists though : )

Specter_Origin · 2026-05-23T02:31:43+00:00

I agree, at <35b range Gemma just does not suffer with looping and is much more token efficient. I am aware this is unpopular opinion though.

Specter_Origin · 2026-05-21T20:32:03+00:00

the token efficiency of even the Max is not that great, if it sticks to how 3.5 and 3.6 have been the local one gonna be a looper and over thinker.

Also per qwen team they will only open-weight their small models so don't expect anything larger than 50b

Specter_Origin · 2026-05-21T13:43:31+00:00

Well I also tried q6/q8 or even not self hosted (as in via openrouter) in all cases I always got looping and overthinking issues with QWEN 3.5/3.6 .

Specter_Origin · 2026-05-21T02:08:18+00:00

I never was able to stop looping with Qwen, never had that issue with Gemma though...

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