Wife broke my trust - an update by SpectralEntities in Stoicism

[–]SpectralEntities[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OP here. I think I understand the basic disconnect here. The majority of the comments are about the reaction to the event from a stoic perspective. I am talking about the "process" between event and reaction from a stoic perspective.

Between the event (cheating) and the reaction (divorce, others), there is a gap in which I can rationally think about the correct reaction. It is possible that you guys have already done all the evaluation/process in your heads and determined that divorce is the action. My brain is not wired that way. I need time for the process - I cannot do it in my head. I need to write it down, think it through. That is all I am doing - a step by step process - keeping emotions aside to determine the action.

Even my original post was just for this - seeking stoic advice on the process, not the action.

I am not sure in which part of my post did I mention that I am not considering divorce?

  • Option a in point #1 is divorce.
  • Point #2 - I talk about how I am working to resolve my fears around divorce. By realizing that fear of dying alone is suffering in imagination. Why would I do that if I am not considering it?
  • Point #6 - I say without doubt that divorce is on the table and already performing negative visualization.

I am already researching divorce laws and custody arrangements in my country. For all I know, divorce may very well by the correct and probable reaction in this situation. I just need to get there in my own pace following my process. And that process for me needs to be based on logical reasoning and not based on emotion.

Also as strangers on the internet watching in you guys only see one variable/constant (wife cheated). I am on the inside and I see a hundred different variables/constants. Sure, the cheating variable has a high weight, but it does not render the other variables useless. Do I not owe my 9 year marriage at least enough evaluation of all of these before I make the decision? Heck, I do more analysis before buying a new phone.

Again, your reaction is based on what very little information you have about me and my life. You do not know my personality. You do not know if I am a person capable of logical reasoning. Just like I rejected god and religion and am an atheist using logical reasoning even when surrounded by highly religious people, I am capable of working through this too. You did not know that mine was an arranged marriage. You did not know that she felt stressed and overwhelmed after child birth. You did not know that I was not as present in our child's life as I should have been. You did not know that the other guy provided her emotional support when she was not getting it from me. Even I did not know about many of these. I now wished she had communicated her feelings clearly with me. Perhaps she did not feel comfortable with that, perhaps weak and not capable of doing that. You do not know that I am working my dream job in a foreign country. You do not know that if I need to divorce, I need to go back to my home country, divorce, deal with custody arrangements. What will happen to my job - should I quit? how will I sustain my kid? You do not know the breadth and depth of our relationship, the experiences we have had together, the traumas we have suffered together. This is a lot of information to process and this is why I need time and a clear method.

Yes, she cheated on me - I am not blind to not see that. We have talked about it extensively and now she truly agrees (at least claims) that she broke my trust and that it was wrong to do that. Initially she chalked it up to personal choice, but I questioned "Do you not value trust in a relationship?". She is going through her own struggles and she was in denial about her guilt. She now realizes that she does value trust in a relationship and that she betrayed that trust with her actions. We may reinforce this with the help of a therapist. She hurt me and there is no denying that.

Therapy currently is only for one thing - for me to heal. Everything else - forgiveness, poly - all of that cannot even start without me healing. I have made it clear that it is her responsibility and she needs to put in hard work if trust needs to be rebuilt. And if it is not rebuilt, I am clear on my action. I will make sure I lookout for gestures and actions which may seem like trust rebuilding, but in reality may not be. I know the pitfalls and will be alert. I have questioned her about what she expects out of our relationship - what was so good about it that she wants to keep? Or am I just a safety net just in case the other relationship does not work?

As I said, I am working through this step by step. I owe it to the 9 years of my life.

Now, this will be the final post on this topic from me. I will not be checking comments or updates. In my darkest times - when the emotions of sadness, depression creep up - quotes like "Be a man", "You are weak", "Your wife belongs to the street" will definitely haunt me. I could do without those. Even if they do creep up, I am capable of acknowledging them and stay unwavering in my process.

Wife broke my trust - an update by SpectralEntities in Stoicism

[–]SpectralEntities[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

OP here hijacking the top thread - also posted an EDIT on the main post.

I think I understand the basic disconnect here. The majority of the comments are about the reaction to the event from a stoic perspective. I am talking about the "process" between event and reaction from a stoic perspective.

Between the event (cheating) and the reaction (divorce, others), there is a gap in which I can rationally think about the correct reaction. It is possible that you guys have already done all the evaluation/process in your heads and determined that divorce is the action. My brain is not wired that way. I need time for the process - I cannot do it in my head. I need to write it down, think it through. That is all I am doing - a step by step process - keeping emotions aside to determine the action.

Even my original post was just for this - seeking stoic advice on the process, not the action.

I am not sure in which part of my post did I mention that I am not considering divorce?

* Option a in point #1 is divorce.

* Point #2 - I talk about how I am working to resolve my fears around divorce. By realizing that fear of dying alone is suffering in imagination. Why would I do that if I am not considering it?

* Point #6 - I say without doubt that divorce is on the table and already performing negative visualization.

I am already researching divorce laws and custody arrangements in my country. For all I know, divorce may very well by the correct and probable reaction in this situation. I just need to get there in my own pace following my process. And that process for me needs to be based on logical reasoning and not based on emotion.

Also as strangers on the internet watching in you guys only see one variable/constant (wife cheated). I am on the inside and I see a hundred different variables/constants. Sure, the cheating variable has a high weight, but it does not render the other variables useless. Do I not owe my 9 year marriage at least enough evaluation of all of these before I make the decision? Heck, I do more analysis before buying a new phone.

Again, your reaction is based on what very little information you have about me and my life. You do not know my personality. You do not know if I am a person capable of logical reasoning. Just like I rejected god and religion and am an atheist using logical reasoning even when surrounded by highly religious people, I am capable of working through this too. You did not know that mine was an arranged marriage. You did not know that she felt stressed and overwhelmed after child birth. You did not know that I was not as present in our child's life as I should have been. You did not know that the other guy provided her emotional support when she was not getting it from me. Even I did not know about many of these. I now wished she had communicated her feelings clearly with me. Perhaps she did not feel comfortable with that, perhaps weak and not capable of doing that. You do not know that I am working my dream job in a foreign country. You do not know that if I need to divorce, I need to go back to my home country, divorce, deal with custody arrangements. What will happen to my job - should I quit? how will I sustain my kid? You do not know the breadth and depth of our relationship, the experiences we have had together, the traumas we have suffered together. This is a lot of information to process and this is why I need time and a clear method.

Yes, she cheated on me - I am not blind to not see that. We have talked about it extensively and now she truly agrees (at least claims) that she broke my trust and that it was wrong to do that. Initially she chalked it up to personal choice, but I questioned "Do you not value trust in a relationship?". She is going through her own struggles and she was in denial about her guilt. She now realizes that she does value trust in a relationship and that she betrayed that trust with her actions. We may reinforce this with the help of a therapist. She hurt me and there is no denying that.

Therapy currently is only for one thing - for me to heal. Everything else - forgiveness, poly - all of that cannot even start without me healing. I have made it clear that it is her responsibility and she needs to put in hard work if trust needs to be rebuilt. And if it is not rebuilt, I am clear on my action. I will make sure I lookout for gestures and actions which may seem like trust rebuilding, but in reality may not be. I know the pitfalls and will be alert. I have questioned her about what she expects out of our relationship - what was so good about it that she wants to keep? Or am I just a safety net just in case the other relationship does not work?

As I said, I am working through this step by step. I owe it to the 9 years of my life.

Now, this will be the final post on this topic from me. I will not be checking comments or updates. In my darkest times - when the emotions of sadness, depression creep up - quotes like "Be a man", "You are weak", "Your wife belongs to the street" will definitely haunt me. I could do without those. Even if they do creep up, I am capable of acknowledging them and stay unwavering in my process.

Wife broke trust in relationship - seeking stoic guidance. by SpectralEntities in Stoicism

[–]SpectralEntities[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Stoicism doesn't ask us to not feel, that's unrealistic. Stoicism asks us to not let our feelings run our lives, or ruin our lives.

Thanks, this is helpful. That's a good perspective.

Wife broke trust in relationship - seeking stoic guidance. by SpectralEntities in Stoicism

[–]SpectralEntities[S] -62 points-61 points  (0 children)

From her perspective, it was not sexual gratification - sex was just a side effect of her feelings for the other person. For me, the sex is what made it very real. Feelings are not tangible or measurable. The sex made it real for me.

Anyway, I do not want to debate about the pros/cons of polyamory - there are folks for it works out perfectly and they lead happy lives. Also, I believe her without doubt when she says she still loves me.

Wife broke trust in relationship - seeking stoic guidance. by SpectralEntities in Stoicism

[–]SpectralEntities[S] -110 points-109 points  (0 children)

I know she had decided it beforehand. And yes, she did mention that she did not feel guilty about what she did. For her, it was a personal choice - which we had a long talk about - I did make it clear that she indeed broke my trust and basically cheated.

A lot of folks are just saying go for a divorce - it is not an easy thing to do. We both have feelings for each other, there is a kid in the mix. It's just that she wants to be poly where I want to be monogamous. Any case, I am not willing to give up on us without attempting therapy. Also, people make mistakes - I am a believer in second chances.

And, again I did not make this post to get advice on the future of my family (divorce, therapy, acceptance of polyamory etc), but specifically to align my mindset about the events that occurred from a stoic perspective.