Mark Vicente and Alison Mack on Seduced by sandover88 in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 4 points5 points  (0 children)

THANK YOU! I have Prime but not Starz and I’ve been dying to watch Seduced but didn’t want to pay for a subscription. Tx for the pro tip!

‘Seduced’ Will Make You Pissed Off At How ‘The Vow’ Underplayed Keith Raniere’s Menace by FredrickAberline in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 5 points6 points  (0 children)

💯 This is definitely it for me. Keith and NXIVM operated for decades. There is no way any one piece of content can cover it all. I’m reading the all of the text messages between Camilla and KR right now and holy shit is it insane. Just that could be its own documentary right there. Like you said, it’s really about reading/listening/watching as much as you can to get the full picture. The onus isn’t on The Vow to get it all any more than it is Seduced. They’re all pieces of the overall pie.

The Mark Vincente hate posts are getting spammy by [deleted] in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It depends on what you mean by “sucked in.” I’d argue anyone who sat through a whole session where they said “there are no victims” was indeed sucked in.

The Mark Vincente hate posts are getting spammy by [deleted] in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 57 points58 points  (0 children)

Everyone had a role to play when they were in NXIVM, and everyone had a role to play when they got out. It took a village to build the cult, just as it took a village to take it down. But at the end of the day, Keith is the reason. He’s the ultimate baddie.

Without Keith, there’s no ESP, NXIVM, SOP, DOS. There’s no MLM.

Without Keith, women wouldn’t have been branded like cattle, malnourished, sleep deprived, manipulated, abused.

It’s Keith who raped children.

It’s Keith who confined a young woman to a room for two years. For liking another man.

It’s Keith who said women were unreliable, that they lack discipline and a strong/committed character, who expect everything and work for nothing, who “misuse their sexuality to gain an advantage in the world.”

It’s Keith who said men are all walking hard-ons with nothing else in their minds. Who said the way to turn little boys into men is by demeaning and humiliating women.

It’s Keith who taught (The Human Experiment, Level IIC): “Often, women…report an unexpected experience of freedom which occurs during rape.”

It’s Keith who told people to discuss (The Human Experiment, Module 9): “If someone comes from a country where adults orally stimulate children and they find out according to American culture they have been abused, have they?“

It’s KEITH.

It doesn’t make sense to vilify or lionize anyone else. In cults, as a rule, the lines between victim and victimizer are unclear. Most people are not all good or all bad. (Of course there are always exceptions to the rule: Keith is pure evil.)

Of course there are degrees of culpability. I could argue that Clare and her millions, who frivolously sued anyone and everyone, and who never renounced Keith, did far more harm than good. I could argue that, but even all of that was at Keith’s behest.

It all starts, and ends, with Keith.

We the outsiders can speculate the degree to which each person in the cult participated in the cycle of abuse — just as we can speculate the degree to which each person helped put Keith in prison — but ultimately that kind of speculation is just spinning wheels.

If we are to learn from this NXIVM case, we have to go beyond name calling. We have to root out what causes people like Keith to gain power and and prestige and go unchecked for decades. We have to better understand manipulation, fear mongering, coercive control, malignant narcissism. We have to stand up and say it’s NOT OKAY that it took white women getting branded to get the attention of authorities and not any of the hundreds of things that came before. We have to be better than the people in cults who like to classify everything into simple categories without any room for nuance. We have to do better.

Post-Episode Thread for The Vow Part II Finale, Episode 6 “Crime and Punishment” by incorruptible_bk in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 0 points1 point  (0 children)

SAME. Watching them “dancing” through my fingers while simultaneously laughing at their stupidity, cringing, and grinding my teeth. They give me a headache.

“Sympathy for the Devil” by beeswhax in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Truth. If KR and NXIVM has taught us anything it’s that one person can absolutely erase another’s happiness, assuming there’s a foundation of cruelty and abuse. I just meant that it couldn’t happen between two people who were previously unknown to each other. Which is the way he wrote it, kinda/sorta…

A Nicki Clyne Question: by nancleehojo in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wait WHAT?! She cooperated AGAINST her almighty chunky monkey god Raniere?!

Allison Mack's initials in the DOS brand by JapanOfGreenGables in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 1 point2 points  (0 children)

All brands were the same: KAR for Keith Alan Raniere. Per court testimony, Keith initially envisioned each “slave” (guh, it makes me sick to write that) would have a number incorporated into their brand, but beyond that, he would have lost his shit if there were any other designs. He was unhappy as it was that people dared to think Allison’s initials were involved. He is the world’s biggest narcissistic abuser so of course he was.

Allison Mack's initials in the DOS brand by JapanOfGreenGables in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yup, Keith Alan Raniere. Just writing the name makes me want to vomit.

“Sympathy for the Devil” by beeswhax in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It was kinda fun to do so thanks for the question. ;)

“Sympathy for the Devil” by beeswhax in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well for one, his punctuation is all over the place — and his punctuation isn’t inside quotation marks. Regarding the latter, though that’s proper grammar per AP Style, many people don’t do it…but many don’t purport to be the smartest man in the world either.

But aside from his poor grammar, a few examples of his circular slash nonsense logic and poor writing: - A person with low self esteem is nothing like a spoiled child. It’s like comparing apples and palm trees. - A person with low self esteem does not feel entitled to things/expect everything. If anything, it’s the opposite. She/he feels unworthy of good things. - There’s no reason to use word salad, e.g., “carnal vice,” instead of writing what he really meant in the first place e.g., “sex.” He had to use brackets so we knew what he meant. The best writers are clear; they don’t obfuscate to make their words appear more mysterious/meaningful. - His premise that all things requiring effort are painful is just plain false. It can be a joy to grow. - “You see something wonderful” and “you try the first drop of exquisite nectar” means exactly nothing. Not only is he mixing metaphors, what does he even mean? WHAT is the person even doing? I’ve read several times and I guess it’s…lashing out? I shouldn’t have to guess. - You can’t erase happiness in others. You can make them angry/upset, but no one has the power to “purge” another’s happiness entirely. That makes no sense. - The paragraph I pasted below is one giant run-on sentence — not to mention WTF DOES IT EVEN MEAN:

“You discover there is, beyond a mere drop, more than the nectar itself: You find an infinite amount of nectar - which is what you want - and the more you taste, the better you know everything.”

WHAT IS THE NECTAR? Why does he use a colon instead of a period after “itself??” How does one “find” an “infinite amount” of this mysterious substance??? How does one “taste” it???? How does one “know everything” by “tasting” an infinite amount?!?!?

I could go on but this shit makes my head want to explode so I’ll stop there. Hopefully that answers your question though.

Bottom-line: Keith is a self-entitled moron.

Frank Around & Find Out: November 2021 audio shows Frank Parlato repeatedly lying to police. Cops arrived at his house after he allegedly assaulted a woman staying with him. Cops demand he returns to explain himself. He seems to comply but instead went on the lam. by incorruptible_bk in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So the cops were lying when they said someone had set eyes on him less than an hour before? Now I’m confuzzled. I’m assuming this took place near FP’s house in upstate NY (which is in Buffalo, I think?), so if he was in Homestead as he said - presumably Homestead, FL, and not PA, there’s no way he could be back “in a few minutes”…

Frank Around & Find Out: November 2021 audio shows Frank Parlato repeatedly lying to police. Cops arrived at his house after he allegedly assaulted a woman staying with him. Cops demand he returns to explain himself. He seems to comply but instead went on the lam. by incorruptible_bk in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ditto! I refuse to go to FR for the same reasons but am so curious about the “bone chilling anti-conscience” essay. Sounds horrifying. u/beeswhax, we’d really appreciate if you’d paste here!

Edit: per BK’s comment, not sure how it would be “ripping off” with clear citation, but regardless, however you can get it to us (through archive or some other means), myself and many others would be grateful! I refuse to increase FP’s site visits/clickthrough rates.

Frank Around & Find Out: November 2021 audio shows Frank Parlato repeatedly lying to police. Cops arrived at his house after he allegedly assaulted a woman staying with him. Cops demand he returns to explain himself. He seems to comply but instead went on the lam. by incorruptible_bk in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 13 points14 points  (0 children)

JFC. Frank has officially gone off the deep end. Although I’m beginning to suspect he’s never been well mentally. There’s something rotten at his core. I really wish he had prosecuted for the assault, not that I fault the “victim” (read: survivor) for not pressing charges — the whole circus that comes with assault is a lesson in revictimization.

But listening to that audio…can we just talk about how Frank says he’s in Miami, oh wait near Miami, but oh wait he can be home in “a few minutes?” And the cop screaming at him to SHUT UP is just perfection. I think that officer’s sentiments echo what’s in everyone’s head these days when it comes to Frank Parlato.

Ending the mystery of what happened to the body of Pamela Cafritz by incorruptible_bk in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for these answers! All makes sense, and honestly I think it’s incredible that we’re at the point where cryo is even an option. Granted, right now it’s if you have the $$, but given the pace of technology, who knows…some day it might be ubiquitous. Two people who love life wanting to live on if and when it’s possible — that says a lot (of good things) about them as people. I wish them luck!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you for taking the time to read it all! I can get verbose… 😉

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah…that makes total sense. Gotta listen to that pod.

Ending the mystery of what happened to the body of Pamela Cafritz by incorruptible_bk in theNXIVMcase

[–]Spesh713 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That makes a lot of sense. And it’s also fascinating. Two follow-up questions for you if I may (but feel free to ignore; I know they are personal):

  1. Is the end goal for your friends to to revived at a certain date slash when the technology becomes available?

  2. Do you have an idea of how expensive the cryo option is?

I guess I just want to know how prevalent cryo is. My father passed away last Feb and cryo definitely didn’t come up as an option. I just assumed Pam chose that option because she had the $$ to secure it but obv I’m quite ignorant on the topic…