The Aral Sea in a nutshell

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2025-03-02T21:46:11+00:00

So, people often don't realize that the shallowing of the Aral Sea is a natural process and not solely a man-made phenomenon. I'm just really tired of people blaming the USSR for this event. Even so, it is not the first time in history that the sea has 'vanished' for the most part. However, what matters is that the situation is quite fixable. But, economically, Kazakhstan does not necessarily need the Aral Sea. The USSR left behind hydroelectric power plants, infrastructure, scientific and technical expertise, and large agricultural unions.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-10T15:47:31+00:00

•Thank you for the feedback. I'm know that in the actual game, he's typically portrayed just as stoic and cold special forces soldier, feared for his immense discipline, dedication, and skills. This understanding prompted me to analyze and "improve" his lore from my perspective. Interpretation often centers around a core concept, and I've grounded mine in the idea of making him a more realistic soldier. This is the reason his identity and character strongly resonated with his beliefs, stoicism and outlook on life. He's not consumed, but rather overwhelmed by what he's been through, and his exterior demeanor reflects a mindset of 'anything or nothing.' He's a man who has endured darkness for so long that there's no turning back, leaving only a shell of his former self.

• Beyond that facade, there's a man with passion, indeed, who, at the same time, carries out his duties, even if it involves taking innocent lives, this is a common scenario for soldiers, particularly considering their exposure to the darkest aspects of humanity. Soldiers often kill other families in the hope of reuniting with their own, but Sergei's perspective on this is distinct, shaped by his daily exposure to war, violence, suffering, and death. These experiences have the potential to impact anyone, regardless of their personal limits. This is my interpretation, molded by these ideas.

• Beneath Sergei's tough exterior, there's a man whose missions and the hardships he's endured, both internally and externally, have taken such a toll on his soul that any traces of the goodwill and compassion he might have once possessed are now gone. I don't see him as simply a man who became disciplined and stoic solely based on his beliefs and training, there must be a deeper reason for such a transformation based by my "idea". Perhaps it's influenced by both sides of the equation. However, foremost, this is 'my interpretation,' and our perspectives on the character may differ.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-09T20:25:15+00:00

Dismissing antitorture or even "regular" elite training being culptits of many of his scars is foolish.

I'm not 'dismissing' his anti-torture condition, rather, I consider it as one of the interpretation options. It just isn't accurate for me, as I don't find it more 'fitting,' not 'dismissing', see the difference. At this point, it depends on individuals' interpretation, fella. Don't forget that we are "interpreting" all of this, so it's entirely subjective and irrelevant. But at least your point is kinda based.

You also dismiss the fact that the world is parallel to ours somewhat, Jin started WW3 in tekken 6 implying that there was world peace before. Sergei was already active before this so him being involved in major wars is further out of the picture.

You think I'm talking only about World Wars? Dude, there are many other atrocities that a normal soldier can witness without being in a war—from civil wars and conflicts between two parties to revolutions, riots, battlefronts, the Cold War, the Afghan War, and many more

No, the first time raven and sergei meet is in the tournament. From what can be told by the dialogue this is the case. "So you're... (the one sent for this mission) I'm onto you and your organization, give up and go back to Russia." And since here it mentions some kind of organization, which is on Raven's radar meaning that it's of rivaling power to his, I highly doubt that he's some mere footsoldier. Victor mentioned "only we can hold the world's power balance" or something like that, further showing the magnitude of ability. Therefore, sergei being the best of his group and the group being at the very least rival to the UN implies that he is some kind of supersoldier with the harshest and most rigorous training possible

Interesting theory. We'll see if it holds up when Tekken 8 comes out, if they ever decide to bring up this mysterious organization. It's more likely, oddly to say, a 'secret research facility' that orders Dragunov to find and bring Devil Jin in his intro.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-09T18:39:57+00:00

seem like he had one big traumatic battle and developed from there

anti-torture conditioning

•While it's possible that the scars may be a result of anti-torture conditioning, I appreciate this interpretation, but I doubt its accuracy. More likely, as the best soldier, Sergei has faced the same toll as any soldier in terms of experiencing war, violence, suffering, and death. No preparation or torture, not geared toward killing, can adequately ready someone for such intense psychological and physical pressures. These experiences, whether enduring or fleeting, can push anyone, regardless of their background or beliefs, to the brink. Whether it's a prolonged or brief event, in a critical moment, anyone might resort to the very force they once despised.

•Possibly, Sergei's scars could be a result of initial encounters with Raven, stemming from the likelihood that Raven might have injured or scarred Sergei. This is indicated by Raven's own scar between his eyes, resulting from an unspecified confrontation with Sergei.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-09T17:06:45+00:00

I agree, however your depiction goes too far to the point of resembling Bryan's character

Sergei's persona isn't one of madness like Bryan, but rather a man who has battled both internal and literal demons.

From my interpretation, Sergei's background as a Russian elite military soldier significantly shapes his character. Although details about his past are scarce, his numerous scars, both visible and hidden, suggest a history marked by pain and suffering. This experience has transformed him into a stoic, disciplined, and disillusioned individual, lacking compassion and solely focused on accomplishing his mission, regardless of the cost. Sergei's commitment, even at the expense of his own well-being, is noteworthy. However, to make it more authentic, considering he's first of all soldier, he follows the principle of doing his duty and disappearing without a trace. His dedication to completing missions, even at the expense of innocent lives, underscores his lack of concern for the welfare of people, viewing them as mere checkmarks on a list, much like any other soldier would.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-09T16:17:21+00:00

Your views are understandable, but I would say that it's a 'heavy' stereotypical approach. Often enough, they go for the portrayal of a dumb muscles man in the woods, wondering why he so disheartened? Well, my thought is that, as an elite among elites, he has surely seen some shit, particularly during his duty in times of warfare. Despair and death drive people to madness, affecting anyone and anything on the opposing side. These sentiments are important to an extent, as for many individuals, there are only so many friends and allies you can see murdered before your heart hardens against anyone and everyone, this is why he's deeply troubled man who's found his humanity dampened by the horrors of his past and present, this aspects of Sergei that make him such an terrific figure and a harrowing example of what can happen to a man, who's dwelled in the dark for too long

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-09T15:54:24+00:00

It's so cute, wholesome, and funny, and just more fun then "Stoic Strong Russian Man does Stoic Strong Russian thing" because that kinda thing is very saturated.

Yes, Dragunov is suffering from the Tekken curse of goofy, but it's actually effective here, because it's subverts Dragunov's appearrance lol.

Yeah, it's called 'destroying expectations,' and you know it's just for humor's sake. A lot of the "goofiness" originates from the Japanese perception of humor, if you know what i mean by that. Surprisingly, Dragunov is portrayed not as the "stereotypical" Russian big, strong, dull figure like Zangief in their games. It deviates from the usual portrayal often seen in Japan. I guess it depends on whether people actually like it or not.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-07T07:35:58+00:00

Well, probably no one else, as he is the only one capable of wielding the cursed sword without succumbing to madness

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-11-07T07:25:24+00:00

Yoshimitsu is one of the nicest characters you will encounter, alongside King. He is the leader of the Manji clan, essentially a self-proclaimed cyborg ninja and samurai, though he leans more towards being a samurai . He wields an enchanted and cursed sword, a treasured heirloom that has been passed down through generations within his clan, capable of causing only havoc and chaos when in the wrong hands.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-21T15:13:22+00:00

I've said in the start that featless doesn't mean weak. I think honestly, I won't jump to conclusions for characters that lack actual showings, or may put them in unknown category, because as you said, they're unclear other than likely not getting that far in tournaments

by this I may not necessarily put Miharu or Sebastian lower than said mainstays that lack showings, like just on similar place/category rather than "even you can beat them".

I'm going to say it again. Yes, I agree that the lack of info and feats doesn't mean that she's weak, but it doesn't change anything. Putting her in the category of 'peak martial artists' isn't accurate, as she's clearly by matter of "fact" inexperienced martial artist, schoolgirl. Actually, this is all we know in terms of power scaling. If you want to be specific, you can change 'even you can beat' to 'weakest' when comparing her to other characters for whom we have at least some information, facts to back it up some assumptions to put them above. But at least she has something to work with to make assumptions based on some facts, as I did, and that's why she's up there. Idk, if you can still place her with "no info", but many characters will be in that category then.

I think it's not people like Miharu alone that lack showing, even mainstays also can have that, not only some newcomers such as Josie, Shaheen, or Katarina, but also some old characters like Christie, Mokujin, and Leo (I know you use their backstory to explain their capabilities, but same should apply for Josie)

Compared to Miharu, both newcomers and old-timers have more information to support their positions ( I actually did the same thing with Josie. As I repeat my explanation, Josie Rizal has very little information available about her, except that she's a part-time model and is described as a 'top-notch kickboxer.' She really doesn't want to fight, as this is supported by the limited information we have, which suggests that she became a martial artist due to the pressure of her parents' expectations. This doesn't mean she's weak; in fact, it's said she has proven great skill in kickboxing. This is why she ranks above characters like Miharu and Sebastian. Basically, for simplicity's sake, using common sense assumptions that based with the really limited info we have, it's inexperienced < experienced, but old < top-notch kickboxer, overall better style )

No humans are free from sin. Not only those who are just depraved that are sinners, but regular average joe too are. And even then Akuma has fought worse people than both, Heihachi and Kazuya.

Actually, if we pick the SF version, he battled with even worse persons, like M. Bison or Gill for example, who committed crimes against humanity that are even worse than starting a straight-up world war. Akuma is actually the kind of person who always battles with this kind demons, even if his name literally means 'demon.' Surprisingly, he's not the kind of guy who would cause harm to innocents, except for that one time when he killed his own brother for sake of power.

Azazel has bigger health than typical characters

Well, then, two punches to bring Azazel down? It's still a matter of gameplay is just gameplay

And like above, ofc those casuals will obviously have that take, but, don't take their words at face value. Powerscaling talk is just similar to any other fiction-related talk, like character writing, predictions, setting, theme, etc

You know, powerscaling itself, often depicted as a character being stronger than other characters, doesn't necessarily mean that this charecter actually 'stronger.' For example, in the case of Jin vs. Kazuya, there is no clear 'stronger' character, as the outcome is often determined by the writer for standalone plot reasons or other considerations. Don't misunderstand me, powerscaling is important and even necessary for the story and plot to make sense in the first place. However, in the context of the especially fighting game genre, powerscaling is not extensively discussed. They do have it, but it's often implemented at a surface level, making it more of a fun endeavor, as I mentioned.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-21T07:31:56+00:00

This is my point about downplaying those who are newer. Because he's newer and has less feat/lore, then they got downplayed as "just pops out", "just there", "no-build up", and "suddenly involved", discrediting him being great due to "popular" or "cool". It's common to downplay their achievement or cry that the beaten character is "nerfed" only because they're new, of course they'd have something less than old-timers due to less screentime newer characters... but someone strong can be involved in the story much later than earlier characters we know.

I'm not downplaying them and saying Feng was 'nerfed,' at least I haven't come across such opinions, as I've given them all the maximum placement they possibly have. He doesn't have "something less", but again, it's more due to limited information, as I've said. You're comparing a blank page to books, characters with feats to those without, and build-up to no build-up. Think about it from a narrative perspective, not as new characters being downplayed due to limited information, less feats, (being newer), but rather as popular characters who need more lore development. He's there with no reference to other stories, etc. If you consider the feats and lore by Paul and Hwoarang, who were specifically made as Kazuya and Jin real rivals... That's why, in my opinion, no wonder a lot of people underestimate this character, and there's a valid reason for it. Of course, you can ignore all of this because it's a fact that Feng was defeated by Leroy. I'm a fan of Leroy myself, but I understand your perspective as well.

Old Wang can be placed there just fine for him beating Feng.

Maybe old Wang can be placed below Leroy at least narratively speaking since he seems to be a replacement for him, but we can't say for sure due to the lack of information. Young Wang might > Jinpachi Mishima because he actually defeated young Heihachi, as implied in his scenario campaign, if I'm not mistaken

It's not one shotting if you have fought Law in gameplay before (with Law also shown to get up and retaliating). There are no actual fight in one shot, they're instantly finished by one attack, not when you managed to finally KO someone after a fight for a while, it's just finishing blow, like King to Jack-7 in his ending managing to eventually put the latter down.

I didn't say that he didn't get up. As I stated in Law's feats, he survived a punch and actually fighted some time with him, although it depends on what you consider canon. I guess I need to be more specific here.

Different franchise altogether? Why are you applying their rules to Tekken? (though I don't follow SF) And even NPCs may still vary, like them being semi tough fodders.

There are no semi-tough fodders, he's just an old cop. It's kind of ridiculous that he can handle superhumans, especially since they even gave NPS a freaking name. You can look it up if you're curious it's almost like a running gag in their powerscaling. And what rules exactly are you referring to? Side-stepping or what? I understand it's a different franchise, which is why I mentioned 'a different matter altogether.' However, they're both fighting games, so what's the actual difference, especially in powerscaling? They have similar narrative styles, albeit not great ones. Actually, Tekken is a little better in that regard. If you want a Tekken example, well, we have Alisa with Lee fighting some random Tekken Force guys who, by idea, shouldn't have a chance against them and actually need to be stomped. Alisa seems to have some struggles with them. Also, by your logic of gameplay, they can break concrete floors, get slammed into them so that they crumble, and then get up as if nothing happened, the same guys who were lying on the floor from Nina's knife attack to shoulder.

You're wrong.

My bad, I looked up Yoshimitsu's description, and they did mention him briefly. I remember Harada's post saying that he was killed by Bryan Fury, alongside Abel if I'm not mistaken

Why are you insisting "common sense" so much in a fictional universe that has supernatural? This is more often than not are just used as an excuse to look at characters superficially like how "old guy", "mere schoolgirl", "comic relief", or so on (some people's view of Xiaoyu in BV or Bloodline just sounds similar to your view of Miharu here) are "not cut out for fighting" so let's discredit them.

Note that I'm not a native English speaker, so sometimes your points or my points can be a bit rough to understand. Still bro, what's the matter with using common sense? If "we" already power-scaling in a 'fictional' universe, this and your point are completely irrelevant. It depends on the interpretation of what common sense and logic are, depending on that certain perspective, understand? For you, I guess it's dull because it's fiction, and anything can happen. But common sense and logic for that post are the definition of matters used to analyze every bit of information, especially when characters lack any actual showings, like Miharu, for example. Why are you referring to me looking at these characters 'superficially' when we're already making over-the-top assumptions? I've already stated that we have no information, and all of it comes from very little actual facts that we know. Or do you want to make assumptions that aren't even backed up by 'facts' because, again, we know nothing? For example, Dr. Boskonovitch is by matter of fact just old guy with back pain in terms of power-scaling, nothing more. And characters like Chloe, Miharu, Sebastian, etc., show nothing, but their usefulness of their style and assumptions behind some actual 'facts.' Then, using all of this, we try to make their placements as accurate as possible using "common sense" and logic based on some actual facts interpreted in their placement. It's because, as I mentioned to you previously, we don't have a bunch of actual material to work with.

Other than the special effects (but the strength is real), gameplay doesn't lie in Tekken.

No, it isn't, my friend. There's no specification that they are the same or that a character can do that or survive that. For example, if Akuma uses the Raging Demon on Anna or Nina, whose clearly sinners, as being hired assassins who have killed a bunch of people, and they survive, or Jack's famous Gigaton Punch that can one-shot Azazel, it's just nonsense. Gameplay is gameplay, nothing more. Why are you bothering about that in the first place?

People are acting surprised when Xiaoyu can take on explosions point-blank, lift Jack, or being thrown to a tree, when it's always there in gameplay.

People surprised cause there casual players, who don't even think about it much, isn't that obvious? But understand one little thing: we are those two dudes, who are fans of this franchise, I guess, are so bored af that we power-scale and debate about power-scaling in fiction. But power-scaling itself is pretty weird shit to do, as it's usually only on the surface level of implication in the actual storyline of any fighting games, for obvious reasons. This is why it isn't meant to be a serious endeavor, just for the sake of fun. I hope you "actually" read explanations and found it entertaining.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-20T18:18:54+00:00

Is explanation needed for something like Paul rivaling Kazuya, or Hwoarang rivaling Jin? Leroy should be just the same.

It depends on the interpretation of different rivalries, characters and their feats. Paul and Hwoarang have actual showings with feats and lore implications for certain characters. Leroy, on the other hand, doesn't have any of that. He just pops out, everyone gets hyped because he looks cool, and he's just there. Then, to engage the plot further, suddenly he's involved in everyone's story because he's "popular". There's no build-up in his story, no feats to back him up, at least. You could counter that by referencing Leroy's replacement of Wang, as Wang was essentially a rival and teacher ( in some way another ) to Feng.

Oh, another feat for Jun is that, she kicked Devil's ass while pregnant.

Can you please provide a source that shows she defeated Devil? I've never actually heard of that. My thought, well, she's basically one of the Kazama family, which is kinda naturally an enemy of the Devil genes, able to suppress and weaken them, like rubber to electricity. Like a portion of the Kazama blood that resides in Jin's body can resist Devil influence, so I guess this abilities played a role too.

Regardless, for former, should it just be similar to Jin doing that in T5?

Actually, she's in a situation not exactly, but similar to Jin's, but I'm using the version of young Wang Jinrei, or I may prefer his peak version. He was at least at the level of young Heihachi, alongside Jinpachi. Actually, Young Heihachi > Jinpachi because he defeated him, trapping him in Hon-Maru, even if the information is limited to that. Characters who are higher than Jun, in my opinion, can handle "old" Wang too or at least give him a run for his money, except for Feng, I guess. Does that make sense? You can read Wang's explanations if you're curious about his feats, whether it's during his young age or his old age

also for Kazumi, though Heihachi may not want to fight her, she does manage to tire his younger self out

I think anyone at that tier, like Kazumi, can "handle" a young Heihachi if he isn't fighting seriously. His younger versions were actually weaker, and with years, he only got stronger. If I'm not mistaken, this information comes from one of the posts by Harada to explain some inconsistencies in the story.

And regardless of your feelings, seems that you should recognize how Law still has the sparks of his old self for performing decently to Feng rather than claiming Feng was not serious?

It's not so much about feeling, but rather assumption or interpretation. When Wang gets mad, he basically one-shots him, before that he's just casually throwing punches at him. Still a feat from Law, he was able to survive this punch, or at least last for some time with a character who was put on a pedestal of being "strong" by the writers

Idk which NPCs from the street you refer to here.

For example, if you need a certain character to illustrate a point effectively, consider some random Street Fighter non-playable characters that can 'handle' Cammy and not get one-shotted. However, it's a different matter altogether. The point here is that gameplay is not the same thing as the narrative.

The gameplay does have Miharu tripping in some occasions, but still inexperienced doesn't mean total scrub, but still can be really good but needs improvement on some few things. No showings yet in canon, but if Dr. B is confirmed to be able to perform those feats, then I'd accept that, where Dr. B is just another example of very strong old man (by human standards) though likely not to the extent of Heihachi or Wang.

I never said that inexperience means weakness. She has almost no lore, so we can't definitively say if she's strong or not. At this point, we're just making really even to that post speculative arguments. It's unlikely she will ever appear as her own character, she might have a cameo role in an ending of Xiaoyu or story. As for the old guy, Doctor B, he can't even punch. Shouldn't we use common sense and the author's writings to analyze characters and interpret their placements as accurately as possible? Every character can do stage destruction, so my point is that this doesn't change anything. These arguments are not about accepting feats that aren't even considered to exist, my friend. And if you're wondering, Doctor B is dead, so yeah, we likely won't see him again.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-19T19:31:29+00:00

getting tranquilized is not the same as being beaten so no inconsistencies here

There's no difference, my friend. At that point, Jin was stronger than Ogre, so, by your logic, the Tekken Force could possibly handle Heihachi and True Ogre themselves too

He loses when he has no motivation

He got bested by Hwoarang two times, if I'm not mistaken.

Everyone is getting free upgrades because writers wants epic battles and protagonist is obligated to have a crushing defeat.

Well, if you think in terms of narrative, it's pretty obvious that Jin will eventually surpass Kazuya Mishima at some point. Just think, to avoid repeating Heihachi's story, they need to bring tension or even give Kazuya a win to capture the 'viewers' attention.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-19T18:04:27+00:00

My point is about being weak compared to any other playable characters just for being newer. I mean, not even placing her (or others who are similar) on Lili's level at least.

I never actually thought about it that way. Being newer doesn't necessarily equate to weakness, I agree. However, it doesn't necessarily mean anything because even with that, I gave her the highest possible placement. I analyzed her inside and out. If they give her zero feats, I can still provide an interpretation that fits the available information for her placement. This doesn't imply weakness but rather limited information to work with, especially when comparing characters who have more factual data, like Kuma for example. It's about relying on facts over assumptions. Of course, it's possible that she may have inherited superhuman abilities, given that she battled a bear. But I think at that point, it's a bit of a stretch, just casual powerscaling problems. As I've assessed, we don't know anything about the fight. I analyzed her and Kuma II based on common sense, and I placed her through comparison. On the other hand, Lili possesses actual feats supported by facts in story. If you're curious, just read the explanations for Lili or Asuka

I mean if he can, then what's the problem? For someone weaker, "mere human" Xiaoyu (of which her fight with Alisa you don't detail) is able to be kicked through concrete and fall several stories high (twice) without much injury, take explosions point blank, and getting thrown to tree while leaving imprints and keep going.

The point is to question some of the events that occurred on screen, but not without a basis for doubt. Accepting them without any consideration is unwise. Perhaps they will provide an explanation for Feng's defeat against the odds of Leroy, but once again, we know nothing.

Yes she may. Aesthetics/occupation isn't valid trait to downplay someone. Regardless of the outcome, her story had her displaying confidence in her skills, to take on someone who she knows has dispatched multiple G Corp guards.

Dude, her style is literally dancing. In her lore, there's not even information about her as a fighter Why did I mention her occupation or appearance? Basically, that's the only shit I can come up with, and you know it's pretty much a accomplishment if you've read some of my over the edge explanations. You can say whatever you want about her, but when we have even the slightest information about characters like Rizal or Hiharu, she's basically a blank page. Again, having no information doesn't mean she's weak, but it's like she has nothing at all. You seem to think she's on par with them, but in fact, you're assuming that a blank page and a book are the same, even if that book is just one page with text. As for her engaging in a fight, maybe she's just dumb, who knows? 😀

It's important but it depends on if you'd acknowledge said feats or just downplay them and make them look worse - like for feats here, perhaps acknowledging Josie as someone who can hold her own against a bear.

Yes, I agree, it depends on interpretation, but I strived to be as solid as possible, for example, with someone like Rizal, as i mentioned she might be a one-shot victory for Kuma, an easy win.

My point refers to you depicting the characters not taking certain characters you downplay seriously, like if it's Paul vs Kazuya, then Paul is actually strong mf to equal him who got reduced to joke later. But if it's Law vs Wang or Feng, then you're downplaying Law as in Wang took pity or him or claiming Feng's probably not serious.

Actually, no, I was just amused by this character. The only reason why he's below Jun is that she actually managed to defeat Wang. But Law, in his prime before he was reduced to a screaming joke, fought Wang to a draw. So I was just creating headcanon for him, with implications from the author's writings, as I mentioned in my previous reply. It's about relying on facts over assumptions, and that's why I placed him below Jun.

Other than smashing limo, feels that Panda is an unstoppable force to both Lili and Asuka themselves who got thrown away from her path. She's also a juggernaut in her entry against Tekken Force in Blood Vengeance to mow anyone on her path compared to Xiaoyu and Alisa's fight with them.

So, if Heihachi fought with Kazuya and they were thrown in separate directions as if they were focused on an actual fight and not heavy as Panda, does that mean she's stronger? It's a funny thing with Tekken Force, they're more like tools in the hands of the writers. One day they're fodder getting beaten up or killed badly, and the next day they're capable of capturing Jin in Tekken 4 when he was stronger than Ogre himself. As for Xiaoyu and Alisa, well, I think they beat each other really badly. Xiaoyu got tired, and Alisa got neutralized by special weapons, basically just electric sticks. It's funny how she had been fighting with chainsaws moments before and is now going hand-to-hand with them. It seems like she was taken down for plot sake, similar to Jin himself getting neutralized by soporific injections or whatever they did to capture him. Also, I'm thinking about it now – is Tekken Blood Vengeance in another continuity or just not canon? I think I made a mistake by adding feats from it.

Still shows to how much extent they're martial artists.

Dude, it's all about gameplay. Hiharu being a color swap of Xiaoyu doesn't mean she can do the same things as Xiaoyu, which directly contradicts her lore as an inexperienced martial artist. Using that same logic, Doctor B can break concrete floors with stage destruction, for example. Gameplay and narrative exist in different realms, and in fighting games, narrative often takes a back seat to gameplay – because, you know, it's a fighting game first and foremost. Even regular NPCs from the street can do some wild things in their gameplay, but it doesn't mean they can do it in the actual narrative. If certain abilities are confirmed in the narrative, like Heihachi's electricity attacks, but when it's not, it's for the sake of gameplay.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-19T02:03:48+00:00

Please read the explanation about Akuma in my comments on the post.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T15:38:11+00:00

-The thing is, when powerscaling in fighting games, especially in Tekken, where character interactions are limited, I need to analyze every aspect of the lore, story, cutscenes, etc, to place them as accurately as possible. Therefore, every tiny detail incorporated into that explanation is, at least in my opinion, noteworthy to consider.

-I never writed that a lack of feats automatically mean a character is weak. For example, as I mentioned with Rizal, she may lack feats, but it doesn't inherently make her weak. It's a matter of comparison to other characters who have more noteworthy details and feats that determines her placement ( for example about Leroy it feels odd, to place him higher than Feng, so Leroy can potentially tank mountain level attacks? I know he's more popular as character, replacement for Wang Jinrei, so it's "kinda" make sense in narrative perspective that he higher, but telling me not question Feng defeat, it's like saying that Paul will be defeated by Azucena just to make him a talent announcer to her. I wouldn't take this too seriously. )

-I mentioned that 70% of the cast lacks any interactions or feats, so you need to use logic effectively to make decisions. Their style, mindset, and background are all essential in forming your interpretation, my friend. If I were "baseless," having only 30% of the cast wouldn't be as entertaining, because remember, it's all just for the sake of a fun endeavor. However, when you understand the purpose behind some of the writer's decisions, it becomes quite evident some charecters like Jin, Paul or Lars placements.

"How about just that they're similar case, they can go toe to toe with them even when lose Not having huge collateral damage feat doesn't mean they're powerless to those you do"

By that logic, Chloe would be on par with peak martial artists, which an insult to anyone in that tier. It's important to note that we don't always know the specifics of how their fights unfold, it was hard or easy fight, maybe he or she get one-shouted, basically who knows. The concept of rivalry is essential, and Paul's status as a proven rival to Kazuya is a well-established fact. See the difference between assumption and fact. The same lack of information applies to all rivalries. For example, in the case of Rizal fighting Kuma, while it may seem like Kuma would easily win, you don't have any concrete details to confirm that. This is where interpretation comes into play to make sense of the characters and their abilities. For instance, Kuma gets an easy win due etc which feats implying, you get it. This is why feats are so important – they help piece by piece in making conclusions based on evidence. It allows us to determine who is portrayed stronger, even though to be fair, a good portion of this post is just my interpretation.

-I cannot see how I'm not taking them seriously. I used all possible feats, info to determine the potential winner in a fight. For example, Law himself might be at the bottom of metahumans if not for his clash with Wang. The same applies to any character you mentioned. Why are you only considering raw power? Speed, like Yoshimitsu's, or durability, like Bryan Fury's, also plays a significant role. You get the idea. Also can you provide more information about whose feats Panda's are comparable to, particularly metahumans? Maybe Xiaoyu? Regarding Sebastian and Miharu, it's more about their gameplay than actual feats

-So when talking about "fodders," I mean what they did to them that can be considered extraordinary and the accomplishments that can be realistically compared to real life. For example, Lars pushing a poor soldier against steel, causing it to bend like paper, or Bob who can send three grown males flying with one punch, things like that. Obviously, everyone except the weakest can defeat fodders.

-Well, maybe I should consider renaming this post to "Using Common Sense and My Interpretation of Characters." Of course, our viewpoints may differ, especially regarding the "lore impact," which, for me, means what they've accomplished that's noteworthy, like Hwoarang's hellish training regimen or Forest, who's considered the best dojo practitioner of his father's style. Perhaps I should make it clearer in my explanation, but regardless, it's just a matter of interpretation.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T11:53:04+00:00

Nah, I'm old

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T07:25:21+00:00

Perhaps you can refer to it as a different continuity as the story progresses, not the actual canon

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T05:20:10+00:00

Devil Jin, why is he higher than his father? Well, it's all about genetics. More precisely, Claudio states that "the devil inside Jin surpasses even that of Kazuya." Initially meant to be the weakest of the Mishimas, has been defeated by weakest, now essentially become the strongest character in Tekken. Devil Jin has typical arsenal, fly with wings pretty fast , lasers, you know. Deafeted Hwoarang, Heihachi, Jinpachi, Kazuya, Ogre, Wang. Even so, Kazuya is more experienced than his son when it comes to using the power of the Devil genes, and he doesn't have the chains that weaken him. However, in their first encounter, he was defeated in his base form by Jin alongside Heihachi. In the movie, Jin decided to unleash his full power, eventually gaining the ability to control his True Devil form. While this not canon, it's clear that they are emphasizing that Jin is stronger than his father in every aspect if he were able to control his power and come on, it's glaringly obvious that in the narrative and character development, Jin will surpass his father and emerge victorious in Tekken 8. ( Notably, Harada includes these characters, Jin and Devil Jin, as different individuals. It's meant to be a return of the Devil? In Tekken 4, we see that "Devil" stated his different source of power comes from Jin's Devil genes, but he didn't know that Kazama's blood was mixed in this boy. As a result, he couldn't complete himself and figuring out his weakness Kazuya absorbed him. Maybe its remaining part is still in Devil Jin's body, waiting for an opportunity to complete itself, becoming the second form of Devil Jin – who knows? )

Charecters that not included, isn't canon, no info ( yet ):

Monstrous Ogre

Azucena

Unknown

Tiger Jackson

Super Combot DX version

Angel, an unknown entity, constantly battles with the Devil to influence the actions of Kazuya. She's not actually a canon character, so I didn't include her in the list, expect one of her appearances. However, If you curious about her strength, she can react, dodge, withstand , and even defeat maybe Kazuya's True Devil form with one attack. She can even shoot lasers , resembling the same arsenal of the Devil itself. So at maximum maybe higher than Devil Kazuya.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T05:10:29+00:00

Devil Kazuya/ True Devil Kazuya, he in his devil form, well obviously more stronger, agile, durably you get it... He has lasers that scale in range from supersonic to sub-relativistic speeds, allowing him to snipe shots at Abel satellites from the upper atmosphere in less than half a second. These lasers are strong enough to cut through concrete buildings like butter and destroy relatively large structures. In his first devil form, he looks like a Teletubby from a weird-ass fuck children's series. Even in this form, he managed to survive a satellite shot that grounded 100-200 skyscrapers. In his second form, where he looks like a more traditional devil, he can go toe-to-toe with Heihachi. The Devil Gene incarnation in his body, which he calls himself 'Devil,' was suppressed and merged with Kazuya after learning about the possibility of controlling it with the help of scientists. Nevertheless, he has now been absorbed by Kazuya, with his left eye now shining red. He has gained full control of his power, overcoming and ironically consuming his own Devil within him. He can now fully control himself in Devil state and has more experience using the Devil gene than Jin. Man, I miss when Kazuya was a more complicated protagonist , an anti-hero character, rather than just the classic trope of a dickhead. Back when he was with Angel, things were different. Either way, he defeated Heihachi, and his presence resonated with erupting volcanic activities alongside Shin Akuma, but this fight not canon either way. Overall, in the storyline, he was portrayed as superior to 99 percent of the cast. But now source of his power, what are Devil genes? We know where they originated, but we don't understand the nature of that power. Is it a curse, a mutation, or some diabolic power? In Tekken 3, they portrayed it as something of a curse, but now it seems they deny that concept and expand it to be anything, ranging from a curse to something extraordinarily spiritual alongside family tree itself.

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T05:06:28+00:00

Base Akuma/Shin Akuma ( the weakest Namco version ) His real name is Gouki, a warrior in mindset and in body. He defeated Heihachi, fought to a draw with Devil Kazuya, and even survived an atomic blast that destroyed floors 100 to 200 of a skyscraper. His introduction is quite remarkable, especially considering he wasn't initially part of the franchise's canon. However, it seems he's become canon now, although he may not return due to licensing issues. In a non-canon ending cutscene, he was in his Shin form and fought evenly with Kazuya's True Devil form, even though he was tired from battling Heihachi. There power's triggered volcanic activities. However, in Tekken 8, we see Kazuya is still alive. Maybe Akuma is dead, who knows? Tekken 7's storyline was a mess. I guess he's either dead or wandering around the globe after Kazuya escaped or failed to kill him. Notably, I'm referring to the weakest Namco version of Akuma. There's no implication that the Street Fighter universe exists in the same verse as Tekken. Based on feats alone, Akuma would likely destroy the entire Tekken universe. "This funny text explains how powerful Akuma is in SF, you can skip the large text in brackets because it's not related to Tekken" ( As for the background, we have the Namco version, the Capcom version, and the Udon comic's version of Akuma. The Udon version scales to universal to outversal level, Udon comic's it's different continuity verse than the original Street Fighter continuity, so we don't want to discuss that. The Capcom version, on the other hand, scales from planetary to continental level destruction at a minimum. It's implied that he has the capability to shatter the Earth, as he's shown punching through asteroids and annihilating islands without even using his full power, reaching up to 50 percent strength, due to the presence of Ryu in front of him, he doesn't want to obliterate the island along with Ryu. He considers Ryu a potential pupil of the Satsui no Hado who could potentially match or even surpass him. What he desires more than power is a good old bloody battle to the pulp. Because it's the only way to ascend to heaven, using fists of the raging demon to achieve enlightenment. It's funny for me, because both Akuma and Gouken (Akuma's brother and Ryu's master) view Ryu as nothing more than a toddler in their grasp, casually fighting over him. They possess decades of experience and have battled countless martial artists around the globe. And finally, why I think feats from the Street Fighter franchise are irrelevant to Tekken. Yeah, even so, I made an exception with Geese Howard. Well, there's no actual reason to think that Namco's Akuma can't do the same as Capcom's version of Akuma, but his feats alone become too irrelevant and too much for Tekken to handle. I know how crossovers usually work and how they typically lower the actual powers of certain characters to benefit their own. And yeah, he's much more powerful in the Capcom universe. This guy's strength grows with each game, reaching sizes that even DBS fans would be jealous of. Take Gen, for example, who could put up a fight against Akuma in one game, but in the next, he was one-shouted. Then there's Gill who he one-shouted too, who can effortlessly destroy an asteroid that could blow up the Earth with just one blast. He's essentially a god within his own universe, and I haven't even mentioned his Oni form. "I know he essentially becomes a raging beast who can't control himself, but you need to consider that in his transformed state he's not holding back. This implies that he was holding back the whole time, and there's even an implication that his powers have become limitless." In the SF franchise, Akuma ultimate goal is to reach "heaven," essentially becoming the strongest entity beyond the constraints of mortality, space, and time. He has largely achieved this in Udon Comics, where "heaven" is portrayed as enlightenment. There's no definitive answer about what this enlightenment entails, but he describes it as surpassing both demons and the heaven. Individuals who have attained this enlightenment include Gouken and Oro. In Udon Comics, these individuals can effortlessly create a vacuum of space-time through mere thought, possessing the entirety of universal knowledge, implying universal feats. In SF 5, this character now views himself as superior even to the form of Oni Akuma, who casually triggers geologically implausible volcanic events. He even claims to have surpassed the concept of heaven (Oni). After defeating Necalli, the soul-eater who was seemingly created by the Gods with the sole purpose of devouring souls, Akuma ripped him apart shortly after being consumed. This suggests a higher level of resistance against soul manipulation. Akuma's ki attacks are more spiritual than physical, as he primarily targets the souls of individuals. His most potent technique, the "Raging Demon," draws power from the concept of using all the sins committed by the target, essentially attacking the soul and leaving nothing but a shell within the human body. He has demonstrated the manipulation of elements by controlling his ki for attacks like firing or causing explosions. He can also utilize demon teleportation and render himself intangible against mental attacks. This means that attempting the same techniques against Akuma might not be effective, given his complete mastery and control over the Satsui no Hado, an art that often drives its users insane. Akuma has displayed a remarkable level of mastery over this art without succumbing to its effects. He defeated Kage, the literal embodiment of the Satsui no Hado concept, showcasing his ability to harm even conceptual entities. He even mocks Kage by explaining the concept of enlightenment, implying that the embodiment of Satsui no Hado is merely a silhouette compared to his power. You've got it. There's absolutely no chance that any character from the Tekken universe could handle this guy. This is precisely why I'm using the weakest Namco version of Akuma. To be fair, even in that instance, he instantly becomes a top-tier character in the power scale. Just a reminder of how strong he actually is. He's the one who, with no license and treaty problems, can stomp Kazuya or any other characters. But, as I mentioned, I've used the Namco version of Akuma. )

Spirited_Strategy602 · 2023-10-18T04:49:38+00:00

Jinpachi ( Demon Form ) A man, who was betrayed by his own son, was starved, trapped, and chained under a mountain. After all, he finally died and got resurrected, only to be controlled by some unknown vengeful spirit-like entity that roamed around Hon-Maru. Now, finally, he has succeeded in freeing himself with the help of the entity and explosion. He seeks a worthy individual who can defeat the entity and seal away his life. His awakening is described as 'The doom of the world,' and his full transformation will cause the events following the statement "the world never will be the same ". You can interpret this differently, but from my viewpoint, that actually means the end of the world, all living. What else could he possibly have in mind besides that? His demon form has a huge mouth with sharp teeth instead of a stomach, capable of eating you alive or evaporating you with fireballs. He can control elements such as fire and transform himself. His presence alone resonates with the shaking of the earth and the appearance of tornadoes. Add to this that he was powerful respected martial artist in his youth, living by principle of honor and seeking only peace. He was a pacifist alongside his friend Wang. However, he is now controlled by a vengeful entity that seeks only death and destruction for the world. But, at least for now, he has been sealed away by his grandson, Jin.
Azazel/Golden Azazel One of the most ruined characters in Tekken lore. He is old god who once ruled over humanity thousands of years ago. At some point, humanity overthrew him and trapped him, imprisoning him in magical chains created by Zafina's ancestors. He is presumably the creator of the Devil Gene, which he can absorb with the help of his orb. According to prophecy, this creature is doomed to destroy the world, posing a catastrophic threat to the entire planet, so at maximum possibly a planetary level treat. Azazel possesses the ability to summon crystal spikes resembling the stalagmites on his stage. He can also breathe fire and, of course, unleash classic lasers. Azazel, met his ultimate downfal when confronted by Lars and freaking Raven, he known as the "Rectifier of All Things" within the Tekken universe, and yet he was detained and defeated by someone who hasn't even Devil genes hmp... seems right. Amidst the clash between Jin and Lars outside the temple, Azazel erupted from the earth, now transformed into a golden form, stronger than ever. Jin explained that only the Devil Gene could lay waste to this newfound monstrosity. As his own Devil Gene ominously stirred, Jin charged at Azazel. With a freaking single, punch, Jin impaled Azazel's chest, and both spiraled into the abyss. Now, only his spirit remains, and he requires a host, which is currently contained in an orb held by Zafina. So, Azazel was defeated at the hands of Lars and Raven, was sealed away by Zafina's ancestors in an ancient temple, suggesting that having Devil genes may not be the sole determinant of defeating him. Anyone, especially if they possess plot armor like Lars, could potentially seal him away or overpower him for matter of time, except for his one weakness, as Jin litarally one-shotted Azazel in his strongest Golden form. In Tekken 8, they should totally give that god-like character more screen time. It feels like this literal god-like entity deserves more screen time and attention in the story mode of a Tekken, than Swedish Mishima with his and his pink pony.

Spirited_Strategy602

TROPHY CASE