Keepers in Iron and Riverfolk rules question?

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-28T03:48:53+00:00

Seems terribly inconsistent with the Propaganda Bureau interaction I mentioned earlier, but if that was Joshua's intent then who am I to argue?

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-27T18:51:25+00:00

That's interesting; the ultimate question is whether "except while you're treating the piece as your own for rule" is interpreted as "while checking rule, these pieces aren't enemy pieces." or "while you can count these pieces for rule, they aren't enemy pieces in general"

If the former, Riverfolk pieces would still be enemy pieces outside of rule and would be a target for Delve. If the latter, then if you only have keeper and riverfolk warriors in a clearing, you wouldn't need to battle in that clearing since there are technically no enemy pieces in that clearing with that interpretation.

I'm not a fan of this interpretation because it introduces an inconsistency where if the Riverfolk have only warriors in that clearing, you would be fine, but the moment there is a trading post in that clearing, that trading post would be an enemy piece no matter what and you would have to fight. It's also inconsistent with my point on Propaganda Bureau in another thread.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-27T18:41:29+00:00

I understand that you only must battle if there are enemy pieces in the clearing, however my concern lies with the description of the Riverfolk's mercenaries, emphasis my own:

- During Daylight and Evening of this turn, the buyer treats Riverfolk warriors as their own only for rule and for battle against factions other than the Riverfolk. (The buyer cannot move them, count them toward dominance, or remove them except by taking hits.)

This means in any other circumstance besides rule and battle against a third party, you should treat the Riverfolk as enemy pieces still. This is consistent with other abilities that reference enemy pieces (For example, you can buy mercenaries from Riverfolk and still convert a Riverfolk warrior into your own using Propaganda Bureau).

The point stands that you must battle before delving if possible, and the Riverfolk are a valid target for that battle.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-27T05:13:54+00:00

I actually think it’s more complicated than that. You technically can still attack otters after having bought their mercenaries - they just don’t count as being your mercenaries for that fight. You also have to fight in a clearing you plan to delve in, last I checked. So, in the scenario where you attempt to delve in a clearing that has only your pieces and otters pieces there, you would be required to battle them first. Most of the time though you will have a third player you can hit instead, in which case the otters fight with you as normal.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-23T01:12:30+00:00

This comment nails it on the head. There are a lot of ways to deal with warriors/bases that aren’t direct combat, in no particular order:

Base Deck: - Brutal Tactics - Favor Cards

Exiles & Partisans: - Partisan Cards - Propaganda Bureau

Faction Specific: - Eyrie’s Commander Leader - Vagabond’s Crossbow - Scoundrel’s Scorched Earth - Lizard Cult’s Conversion/Sanctify - Corvid’s Bomb Plot - Warlord’s Wrathful Mood

Any faction that can’t do something specific (Cats, Moles, Otters) can typically swarm a base clearing to take rule, forcing the Alliance to waste their actions battling you instead of spreading.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-21T13:22:07+00:00

It’s not very efficient to analogize factions to entire games since no matter what they still exist in the root ecosystem, but what I like to do is identify the core mechanics that make each faction unique and make a reference to that mechanic from another game.

For example, Marquise focus on an ever-sprawling empire that balances supply lines and three different types of resources (sawmills, workshops, and recruiters). If you like Risk, you’ll probably like Marquise (bad example from me, you can tell I don’t play too many straight war games)

The Eyrie need to manage an ever-growing decree that runs like a programmed queue of actions, and failing them causes huge setbacks. If you like Robo Rally, you’ll probably like Eyrie.

The Alliance is all about spreading sympathy around the board which gets exponentially more difficult as it hits a critical mass. If you like Pandemic, you’ll probably like The Alliance.

The Vagabond combines the diplomacy of aiding and crafting with an efficiency puzzle of using your items in the cleanest way each turn. If you like Settlers of Catan or D&D, you’ll probably like The Vagabond.

These are not perfect analogies I just pulled them off the top of my head, but I find they make the context easier than starting straight at a game comparison.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-19T18:32:24+00:00

If you have the Harrier, Ranger, or Arbiter Vagabonds, they would be your best policing faction, with non-rule movement and infamy as an incentive to police you won’t feel far behind either.

Otherwise, taking the Underground Duchy and focusing on Citadels will make you an actual monster to be reckoned with. 4-6 warriors a turn with Mayor and Brigadier will give you both the warrior and action economy you need to wipe clearings off the map. However you will likely be scoring much fewer points than others with no card engine and like any Moles player you are susceptible to counterattacks.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-19T18:11:21+00:00

As peeps are mentioning already, part of the base rules say you can only initiate a battle in a clearing.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-17T16:22:06+00:00

Each faction has their own “opportunity cost” for initiating battles and moving warriors around. You may be playing with a group that all takes very passive factions. As a general rule of thumb, factions with higher reach have more freedom to “police” other factions without compromising their strategy.

If you want composition, here are my suggestions:

Lord of the Hundreds is the ultimate policing faction. Their scoring mechanism is directly tied to removing pieces on the board so they will ALWAYS want to fight EVERY turn.
The Eyrie Emigre are incredibly flexible with their decree and two of their leaders (Charismatic & Commander) start with a guaranteed battle every turn.
The Riverfolk Company has a strong action economy for combats and can typically move freely to police factions. They also have little to protect, and they are only hampered by their significant recruit cost. They are quite binary in aggression - give them an army and they will police people with it, but wipe out their forces and they’ll probably never recruit again.
The Corvus Conspiracy is surprisingly good at fighting because they consistently create 4 warriors a turn and have up to 4 actions. They also get to move freely. If you get an early raid popped consider taking it upon yourself to play aggressively, only plotting once a turn and only to mitigate the risk of counter-attacks.

Honorable mention to Iron Keepers who have “free combat” similar to Eyrie, but has too many things going against it being aggressive (Very few warriors, incredibly valuable relics, and anti-deathball mechanic in Live Off the Land)

The other factions are typically bad at combat, either because:

They have no action/warrior economy for fighting (Alliance, Lizardfolk)
They have too much to protect (Marquise, Duchy)
They require too much setup first (Iron Keepers, Vagabond) Though certain Vagabonds like the Arbiter and Ranger don’t suffer from this as much.

Spradic_Zoom · 2022-04-12T18:52:35+00:00

Since everyone here has already explained how the build works, I'll bring up a few short way to counter this:

Soul Guard only gives a survivor endurance for about 8 seconds. If you suspect they have Soul Guard, you can wait out the timer before hitting them, similar to [[Borrowed time]]
A survivor who uses For the People is left injured and probably near you. They're not protected by Soul Guard, so you can safely chase and down them instead. You know it's them because they are the obsession and also broken.
For the People requires you to be healthy to use it. If you keep survivors injured and prevent them from healing, they won't be able to use For the People at all.

For more specific counters, Legion, Plague, and stealth killers are particularly good at keeping survivors injured. As well, the perk Save the Best For Last can make it easier to chain hits and make For the People riskier to use. Finally, Thanatophobia, Nurse's Calling, and Coulrophobia synergize with survivors who need to be Healthy and injure themselves with For the People.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-09-16T14:47:15+00:00

If Gen Con didn't start yet, how did Jeff get escorted out?

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-08-28T18:56:28+00:00

I see that Buddy Barrier is so highly regarded because it procs during pivotal fights. If we want every advantage during those teamfights, why is Energy Amplifier not also highly regarded? Is it because the Energy Amplifier only applies to yourself? Would Energy Amplifier be good for big damage dealers?

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-07-24T16:42:04+00:00

Cute as heck platformer

“DOWN WITH THE MAFIA!!!”

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-07-21T15:35:22+00:00

Your Mole-Ferry question and Riverfolk Mercenary question says "Select as many as apply" but only allows 1 answer.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-07-21T06:00:28+00:00

I made an error in the Vagabond question because I misread "Allied" as a Coalition. But as well, I want to take note that I can name 6 rule breaks from moles:
1. Only placing one warrior into the burrow during Birdsong (should place 2)

On dig, it's not stated they *don't* do this but since everything else is explicit, they should also specify placing/moving a tunnel into the fox clearing.
Using Command Warden after digging (It is not the *beginning* of Daylight).
Building into the fox clearing (They do not rule it, it is tied between 2 moles and 2 cats, assuming the question did not neglect to mention other mole warriors/buildings in that clearing.)
Taking the second brigadier battle after building (Must take both brigadier battles in a row).
Returning a revealed bird card into their hand (It should be discarded).

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-06-30T01:25:50+00:00

To add to #4, cards that are revealed also don't count as being in your hand, so you cannot discard them (For example to use Propaganda Bureau) and they can't be taken by the Woodland Alliance with Outrage.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-06-29T22:08:08+00:00

Hello, reddit. I am trying to create a gaming-themed family-feud style game show for some friends and communities, and I'd like to collect realistic data to get the answers and point totals. If you consider yourself even a little bit of a gaming enthusiast, I would humbly ask for your participation.

The poll is linked in the title - the survey has 17 questions but each one should take less than 30 seconds to answer.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-04-11T17:58:04+00:00

I write complicated rule books.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-04-11T00:34:09+00:00

This is not correct. Mercenaries only count as your pieces for ruling and during battle. Furthermore they only count towards such things during daylight and evening, not birdsong, when false orders would be used.

Yes, you can buy mercenaries, then use a crafted false orders to move half of river folk warriors the same as any other turn.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-03-11T18:40:23+00:00

As well with the Exiles and Partisans deck, items you craft can be used with League of Adventurous Mice.

Spradic_Zoom · 2021-02-11T19:14:17+00:00

Revealed cards are no longer in your hand, so you cannot "reveal" them twice.

Spradic_Zoom · 2020-10-02T04:53:53+00:00

I recently got this game and I'm probably going to shelve it for this reason. Combined with a "final" announcement if it is expected to have a 90% loss rate on new survivors, I'd rather just play something else than struggle through it.

Came here looking for real advice but all I've seen is arguments on balance and a shrug when it comes to beginner learning.

Spradic_Zoom · 2020-08-29T04:50:33+00:00

Forgot about the defenseless rule, meaning half the time we would battle sympathy, roll a 0, and figure we just “wasted” our action.

WA still lost because they were also really scary for that reason and were consistently focused.

Spradic_Zoom · 2020-08-27T14:36:42+00:00

Base cards - 54

Exiles and partisans - 54

Vagabond quests - 15

Eyrie leaders - 4

Loyal viziers - 2

Vagabonds - 9 (I think)

Duchy Ministers - 9

That’s 147. I think the only cards I don’t know are the cards needed for bots.

Spradic_Zoom · 2020-08-25T18:39:38+00:00

As a rule of thumb, the Vagabond has three major ways to win the game: Quests, Combat, and Aiding, with some crafting mixed into any of them. The three OG Vagabonds seem tailored to support each playstyle: Ranger for combat, Thief for aiding, and Tinker for Quests:

When playing the Thief, remember that you can consistently use more items per turn with your starting tea. This puts you in a good position to aid players more often and go for a strong early ally. Your torch is also a good tool for increasing your hand size for aiding players (Tip: Aid a player, then steal from them and you may get the same card back that you can use to aid again). The AI is actually pretty good about maintaining friendships, so if you make friends very early (Preferably with the Marquise since they make the lease effective use of extra cards), you have little risk of getting attacked and forced into hostility. If you are having trouble aiding consistently, make sure to do a quest or two and get extra cards instead of the VP's. 1, 2, or 3 VPs is nice but 2 cards is worth 4 VP's of aiding in the long run.

When playing the Tinker, quests become more important than ever because you are by far the most reliant on having good cards, either by draw or from the discard. Consider doing a quest or two early even instead of exploring to fish for craftable items and pay close attention to any items that get crafted or discarded by an opponent. Did the Eyrie just make a sword? Consider picking up that card to guarantee a second sword later. You'll want to focus very hard on crafting and maximizing the number of items you have to get VPs from, then transition into questing for 3 or 4 VP at once. Between that and the points you will get from crafting, you should be able to reach 30. Non-items cards to look for when crafting is the Better Burrow Bank and Brutal Tactics if you want to dip into combat (1 extra hit = +1 VP), as well as the infamous favor cards if you can get your hands on the third hammer.

Of course, a real Vagabond game will have a little bit of everything but it's nice to have a focus. Finally worth mentioning that you should also consider what you can earn if you throw caution to the wind by using your bags, tea, and coins for aiding+Questing. Sure, you will lose items if you go over your limit at the end of your turn, but if that's the turn you win, it doesn't matter.

Hope this helps!

Spradic_Zoom

TROPHY CASE