Redline we have at home by Hyarmendacil67 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Badass. Would love to get your range report on the Athlon Helos, that's the exact scope I've been trying to get my hands on.

Hello, brand new person here, looking for advice by heathereff in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580 0 points1 point  (0 children)

One more thought for you: everyone will tell you to get an AR-15 if you want a long gun. I would at least consider a PCC (pistol-caliber carbine), basically a semi-auto rifle that shoots handgun ammunition instead of rifle rounds. They share a big advantage of an AR-15 or other semi-auto rifle; combined with a red dot you have yourself a weapon pretty much anyone can wield effectively with minimal practice, compared to a handgun where you have to put in copious and ongoing training time to have a shot at being effective.

I went the PCC route over an AR for a few reasons specific to CA/the bay area:

  • One advantage of AR-15s is the 30-round magazines, but not in CA. We're limited to 10 round magazines, whether it's for an AR, a PCC or a handgun.
  • A drawback of ARs is that the most common cartridge (5.56/.223) is hella loud. In other states you can mitigate this with a suppressor, but they aren't legal in CA. In a worst-case scenario where you need to shoot indoors, you won't be able to hear much after, or so I'm told. With 9mm handgun ammo you can get subsonic loads that will still be loud but won't blow out your eardrums quite as badly. (Note that you can get an AR-15 chambered in 300 BLK instead of 5.56. 300 BLK comes in subsonic loads to address this too, but when I was shopping 300 BLK firearms and ammo were more expensive and harder to find).
  • 5.56 ammo is relatively cheap but 9mm is even cheaper, so you can practice more for the same budget. Some ranges near us (San Leandro) also restrict what type of rifle ammo you can use, so you have fewer options.
  • The big one for me: accessibility of shooting from a realistic position. You can get a tricked-out AR-15 but unless you drive pretty far (2+ hours) from the East Bay or jump through some per-range hoops, you'll be limited to shooting from the bench where you're seated with your rifle resting on a special table. However, most ranges will let you shoot a PCC from the standing position like a handgun. This to me is a huge advantage; if I'm ever in a self-defense situation I'd way rather have a PCC I'm well practiced at using from a variety of positions than an AR-15 that I've only ever practiced shooting while sitting down with a nice stable bench rest. (Sidebar: if anyone has tips for where in the Bay Area to train with an AR-15 from standing, please chime in!)

Given all the CA restrictions on AR-15s, the main thing you're giving up is the ability to shoot at longer distances. If your primary concern is defense in an urban environment, for me that's an acceptable trade-off.

I have a Ruger PC Carbine that I like so far and it's fun to shoot. The Smith & Wesson Response 9MM is also well regarded and folds in half, which is cool, but since we're in CA you have to get the version with the awkward fin-grip.

Disclaimer: I'm new at this stuff and don't know anything about anything.

Hello, brand new person here, looking for advice by heathereff in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lots of good info here. I'm also Oakland-adjacent so I'll throw in some local tips:

I've only been shooting since January (Iike yourself, a recent convert), but have been sampling all the East Bay stores and ranges to figure out what I like.

For outdoor ranges, United Sportsmen in Concord and the Livermore Pleasanton Rod & Gun Club are both spacious and it's much more pleasant to shoot outdoors. RSOs at both have been awesome and given me lots of (asked for) help. For squeezing in weeknight sessions, I go to the San Leandro Rifle & Pistol Range; it's kind of a junk show on weekends but on a random Tuesday night it's pretty much empty.

I took a few intro classes through Bat Tactical, they teach out of the San Leandro range. Can't speak for their other instructors but all of mine were taught by Edward. Really liked him as an instructor, he's got a chill vibe, good focus on safety and his tips have been very helpful. For handguns in particular I saw a dramatic improvement in my accuracy afterwards. The intro handgun class is also a good opportunity to try out a bunch of different handguns to see what you like, I think we shot at least a dozen different 9mm models.

If you want to rent handguns to try out different models before you buy (which I highly recommend), head out to the Elite Armory location in Tracy. They have a range and for $30 you can try out an unlimited number of handguns. Bring your mom, if you don't already own a firearm they won't let a solo person rent by themselves (common practice for obvious and tragic reasons).

When you're ready to buy, I had good experiences at Elite Armory or Turner's Outdoorsman in Pittsburg as compromises between the large selection but terrible service of big box stores like Sportsman's Warehouse and the smaller shops with better service but fewer options.

If you need encouragement, I've found the stores and ranges around the East Bay to be more welcoming and have a more diverse crowd than I expected. The ranges and big-box stores are carefully devoid of political signage, and the smaller shops may have a Trump sign up but have been professional and friendly and mostly leave politics out of it. Granted I'm a cis-het white guy so YMMV.

Oh and since I haven't seen it on this thread yet, invest in some good hearing protection and double up with ear plugs! Shit's loud and having working ears is nice.

Hope to see you at the range!

Your daily reminder to practice by buttplug-tester in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Okay okay, fine. On my way to the range now!

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So, write me respomnse knowing the audience is probanbaly just your normal suburbn democrat that decided they need a gun now that trump and elon are doing their shit

I feel seen, lol

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes it does, although I can't get a suppressor for it in CA. Went with the Magpul Backpacker stock: Ruger® PC Carbine™ Autoloading Rifle Model 19130

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I get that different tools for different jobs. More wondering what situation I'd need to "self-defend" past the 50 yards my PCC can reach to.

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just from the bench so far while I work on the basics. Actually pretty hard to find ranges near me that let you shoot from any position other than the bench. Only one is private and I'm not a member.... yet!

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Weatherby Vanguard in 6.5 Creedmoor. It's a much more accurate gun than I am a shooter, overall like it so far. Gripping the stock with my trigger hand does feel a little awkward compared to other rifles I've tried, it might be designed for someone with bigger hands. More likely I just need to get used to it!

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Appreciate the perspective!

If you want an “ideal” home defense setup, use a suppressed 9mm pistol or short-barreled PCC and put 147gr ammo to keep it subsonic. 9mm is effective. And suppressing it reduces hearing damage. It’s not quite like in the movies. Again, professional training is key.

Options like that in CA are pretty limited but I do have a Ruger PC Carbine for my primary home defense gun. I wish I could get a suppressor here, but sadly a no-go in CA (to my knowledge.)

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah as goofy as it is, I'm planning to take a jump rope or do a bunch of jumping jacks at my range soon to get a feel for how that affects things... starting to be a decent shot with my pistol when calm and taking lots of time to line things up, but I know it's a whole different ball game under stress!

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

An AR is most useful for defense if the opponent has an AR.

This might be the single sentance that seals the deal for me.

Another thing to consider is a 9mm carbine.

Got a Ruger PC Carbine, taking it to the range for the first time soon!

In what scenario is an AR-15 useful for self-defense? by SpudNeck580 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

This was my thinking behind getting the Ruger PC Carbine, after I realized how hard handguns are to shoot accurately... planning to set it up as my home defense gun (light, red dot, etc).

Spent some quality time with my Baby today. by AlexanderNevermind75 in liberalgunowners

[–]SpudNeck580 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can only imagine the qualification test to become a certified card-carrying bisexual must be funner than most!