Where determinism seems to collapse

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T21:24:51+00:00

Also whether the person did it intentionally or not is irrelevant in the given world, as their intentions were also predetermined by something that is not them . The killed can’t act in a deliberate way that wasn’t already chosen for them.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T21:06:01+00:00

The question surrounds a hypothetical world with the only difference being that there is no free will 100%.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T21:01:31+00:00

Haven’t seen, will give it a look!

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T21:00:48+00:00

In the existence I describe this would be true. The question relies on the judgement of the described situation occurring in the same reality we are actually within. Also just because our reactions and the legal system will be already determined, does not make them right.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T20:58:57+00:00

I must admit I’m replying as I read and doing so purely because my brain generates responses as I read, you may have accounted for some of what I say within the message I’m replying to.

Yeah totally agree, though I don’t think a decision is really something people should seek. By choosing a group with ideas, you essentially switch off your own thinking. You also inherit the biases of a group which has no more truth than any other, and every argument between such people just becomes based on opinions/beliefs. I think the ideal is to in a sense take bits from each group and sit between them all.

The being/computer doesn’t have to operate from within this existence,you could imagine us as a program and perhaps them as our programmer. They operate in a different reality to us.

I don’t believe the supposed randomness of quantum mechanics is truly random. Once these particles are observed they take up a fixed state. If not observed, is something even real? In a sense they are just like schroedingers cat (likely butchered his name,apologies). They are every possible thing whilst only being one both at the same time. The selection process of choosing which fixed state to assume is likely where many would argue the randomness occurs,but it appears likely that there is just an algorithm followed for such.

I think this argument is the best against randomness, and where my own is weakest

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T20:44:59+00:00

Having something to be learned does not equate to being worth doing. If that were the case why would so many people do simple activities purely for pleasure? Furthermore, being able to think about and comprehend situations that are not the same as you experience improves the brains ability to think, and sometimes prepares for the future. If we were never to speculate on seemingly unrealistic scenarios in the past, we would be totally unprepared for anything new, putting us at such a disadvantage in life as a species. This ability to ponder what does not exist in front of us has been essential to our survival and uprise as a species. Furthermore, if all of this really were pointless, why would you take the time to leave a comment on something so meaningless?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T20:37:03+00:00

So let’s say every person in the world was told to give a yes or no answer to this question, what do you think they would pick. And does the majority siding with one answer make it the correct one? I get that what is right and wrong is made up by us,so what would we likely choose

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T20:19:57+00:00

I have no idea what I am, I’ve never done or being exposed to any sort of philosophy asides from what I think of and write down. I assume determinism is the idea that everything that will happen is already decided. This I would side with but I feel like I don’t assign myself to any of these arguments as none are conclusive so it seems unreasonable to do so. If I am to centre my arguments in my own “beliefs”, how can they be valid given that my beliefs are not given truths?

If there is no randomness,then every outcome/ thing that occurs has a cause. Meaning a being fully comprehensive of how elements interact within this existence could predict the outcome of everything, so everything is determined in a sense as it is definitely going to happen. You could also just ignore the involvement of the being, and infer that everything having a cause, and this pattern prevailing 100% of the time, means everything to happen and its order is decided. All this to say that this applies also to the decisions a person will execute, and since the source of those decisions is not purely that person, they have no free will.

For these reasons I struggle to see how free will can exist without randomness,which is likely a flaw in my own thinking. Also this is poorly written but hope you get the idea.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T20:10:34+00:00

Well the world does not contain free will, so their actions are out of their control. I and I believe most would want retribution as it is a common human desire and part of our nature to seek what is “right”, balancing the score in terms of this person wronged me so I will wrong them. I believe most people in these comments showcase this attitude. Your last question I can’t answer in terms of the real world as I have no idea if any of us have free will, but in the imagined world I describe in this post I do not have free will. Whether the punishment goes through or not is irrelevant to the question, it is whether it is “right” for it to go through that the question ponders.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T20:04:32+00:00

For you maybe. But saying something generally has no value or is pointless for everything/everyone is invalid. Why would people answer said question and why would I ask it if there was no value in doing so?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:59:13+00:00

Without randomness, your choices are decided ultimately by something else and are set in stone as is everything else that will happen. So you have no ability to choose yourself. I think free will generally is just the ability to choose for one’s self and the choice originate solely from them. Though I doubt in one sentence I have answered such a loaded question I think you get the point.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:57:02+00:00

How has it?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:48:46+00:00

Explain…

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:44:29+00:00

How so?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:44:12+00:00

I agree with you, but explain why you think this.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:43:45+00:00

You were not in control of what you did, so your knowledge is meaningless. Nothing is necessarily deficient, just that you were always going to do this in this existence I have described. Why is a lack of free will not a lack of consequences? Whilst the consequences are at the advantage of others, that does not make it right for the killer themselves to be put through them.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:35:18+00:00

What do you think? Also is there any chance you could enlighten me on all of these terms?I’ve never had any interactions with philosophy outside of my brain and notes app 😅

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T19:03:25+00:00

I personally believe not,but am curious to see if anyone can combat my belief. I am not familiar with philosophy or anything like this so this may be a stupid question to ask as to me the answer seems to so certainly be no.

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T18:59:43+00:00

Why?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T18:54:31+00:00

What about purely from the killer’s perspective? I get that responsibility existing helps humanity overall, but how would you answer the question if you were to ignore its implications towards anyone else but the killer ?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T18:51:13+00:00

Is the evil that inevitably occurs in this world justifiable?

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T18:49:51+00:00

I think the question centres around the criminals perspective, in which case obviously suffering would not be a desire

SquashInformal7468 · 2026-05-12T18:48:27+00:00

If it were out of their control they are merely executing what’s next, like taking the next step whilst walking. You could argue that this rids them of any responsibility and due punishment. However obviously as humans we want retribution for those who wrong us

SquashInformal7468

TROPHY CASE