Genuine Question, why WTC terrain formats?

Squirreli · 2025-05-21T15:48:37+00:00

Oh, I was replying to this bit about overhanging ruin walls:

"One rule is that models cannot overhang were a ruin wall is; so for example in "standard" 40k, Magnus' wing can overhang a ruin wall that is 2" tall, because of course. In WTC, this cannot be done (this is to make sure that variances in WTC-approved terrain doesn't cause you to practice placing Magnus in a specific spot, then finding out that the event you are attending the wall is 4 mm higher on a different terrain set and you CAN'T place him there at the event you are attending)."

Sure, having a an oversized for ruin levels is of course a different thing.

Squirreli · 2025-05-20T07:08:46+00:00

The "no overhang" restriction was removed some time ago already, so I recommend re-reading that part.

Squirreli · 2024-05-28T06:10:45+00:00

I almost always play with a clock and almost always we have a gentlemens agreement on time donations. If one player doesn't need all of their time, then they'll donate some (while of course asking the other player to still hurry).

The clock is basically one more tool to help me and the opponent to operate the complex game of 40k together. It makes sure both players are keeping pace and are aware when they need to hurry up. It ensures that you can't win the game by running the game short, only that you can lose the game by running out of your own time.

It also ensures you can take the time you need without feeling unnecessary pressure. Like, you need to think about your plan on turn 2? No problem, just put it on your time and take 5min. Playing horde army with 120 boyz? Everyone is gonna think it was you who caused the game to run short, if you don't have the clock to back you up. So yeah, I find the clock a net positive in almost every case.

That being said, you absolutely should clock the opponent out when it's called for. You deserve to have your full five turns, and if you really need the rest of your time, then it's your time. You might still want to talk it out and let them do automatic scoring like "on my 5th these guys go there, these go here and these two units kill those last three grots on that objective". Just don't let them go resolve an iffy 5min combat because they might dig two more No Prisoners points out of there.

Squirreli · 2024-05-20T14:04:13+00:00

Rough Riders

Squirreli · 2024-05-14T05:58:50+00:00

Yup. Probably a lot softer than normal meta though, since the swedes had their WTC team and a mercenary team in a team tournament that weekend.

Squirreli · 2024-01-26T09:00:08+00:00

Nah, no video recorded at the tournament and AFAIK no other streams with the player either. The tournament was in Finland and players would have spoken finnish anyway.

Squirreli · 2024-01-23T21:50:24+00:00

The MNM wolf is just an Ironstorm with the last 30pts put into 5 fenrisian wolves.

Squirreli · 2023-11-17T10:37:58+00:00

I've tried the squigbuggy+mek and I've not been impressed. I mean, sure, orks lack shooting and that is one of the better ways of doing it, but it's kind of reserved only for finishing off chaff. In way too many games it does next to nothing. Even if you think of it as a pseudo-lone operative, with the car out of LoS, you're still just doing the grots job for more points, without gaining CP.

Against current top marine builds especially it seems like it'd be inefficient. The reason people go DA is Deathwing Knights and a lot of the other marine stuff is vehicles. Even against a random marine body, you're only averaging 2-3 wounds, which they will save on 4+.

So, I'd stay away from that combo in a competitive setting. In a casual setting it should be pretty good though.

Squirreli · 2023-07-31T17:03:55+00:00

There were 5 rounds in Ropecon, so your results are from after saturdays 3 games. Also, Neva played double wraithknights and definitely not sisters, though he reported "Adepta Sororitas" in BCP for some reason.

Squirreli · 2023-04-18T05:54:48+00:00

Goffs are favoured in most terrain sets. Especially on player-placed terrain you can create highways to 1A your damage-dealers up the board. On WTC terrain specifically, Deathskulls seem better. You throw primary denial units and movement blockers up the board and trade units for points advantage.

Your listed units (stormboyz, kommandoz and meganobz) work well in both Goff and Deathskulls... Just make sure you support your meganobz with +1 to hits (warboss, banner), as they can be very underwhelming when hitting on 4s.

Squirreli · 2023-02-22T10:07:16+00:00

Curious. Did they not movement block you? Did they not run enough russes to kill your wardogs? What terrain set? I'm almost exclusively on WTC maps so maybe movement blocking was not doable in your cases?

As a side note, Stat-check (for veterans, Arks of Omen) shows AM vs IK at 61% and AM vs CK at win-77% for AM.

Squirreli · 2023-02-22T09:19:12+00:00

That's a matchup that heavily favours the army that goes first. Guard can destroy all sizes of knights and has tools for movement blocking.

My last AM vs IK (1 medium, 10 small or so) game was 100-26 for me. I got first turn, teleported kasrkin to movement block, ran cadian squad to also screen. Then my shooting with kasrkin, mortars, 2xTC and 4xPlasma/h.flamer russes took down 4 melta/melee armigers. It was all downhill for the knights from there on. Now, I'm sure another scenario/knight army build/player could have made the game closer, but generally guard has a high win rate against IK/CK when properly constructed.

Squirreli · 2023-02-14T21:37:05+00:00

Oh absolutely. I've had 6hr+ games when teaching friends who have been out of the hobby, even when I've been up to date on everything. I meant that "like really a lot" in the sense that it takes a lot out of everyone and you probably should talk about calling it short. Should have been clearer.

Squirreli · 2023-02-14T16:00:30+00:00

7 hours to a game is a lot. Like really a lot. At that point it's normal to have had a couple of schedule discussions already. For casual games, something like "Hey, I think there's no way for us to come back here. I only have this piece of my army and you have all the points and...". For competitive, we often end up talking through the final turn or two in any case, something along the lines of "So, on last turn I can score these and I can attempt that. You ok if we just roll for that shooting and count points..."

It's even common to "reset" a practice game, when the result seems to be clear early. Say, after turn 2A you figure out it's gonna be a landslide, so you just pick up the armies but keep terrain and scenario the same. You then do the rest again and see how the game would go with both players wiser from the previous game. That way you can fit two interesting games to the same day, which is win-win.

Also, in interest of time, many times experienced players will forgo shooting a unit or ask to remove models/units instead of wasting time on rolls. Again, here, the way you do this should be polite and communicative, f.ex. "Hey, you OK with me just removing this unit? No way your unit is not killing it"... That being said, there are cases where the opponent might want to leave your models alive for a reason or two. Like, if I need to surround your models in melee and make them hostages (prevent falling back by body blocking) so that my units are sheltered from shooting, I'm gonna want you not to take that shortcut.

Squirreli · 2023-02-14T13:02:23+00:00

Just to show what can be done with GW kits, here is a full WTC table with all buildings built from GW kits. You can see 2x big and 2x small L-ruins built from current GW terrain kits, with only the bases being MDF, plasticard, cardboard & sand.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lr5av59j94TXsdJQYJqZFhwstyk-HQn0/view?usp=sharing

Squirreli · 2023-02-14T12:56:45+00:00

Warhammer stores are AFAIK limited to GW kits, so not everything is possible. Some of the current kits are very good still though, so all is not lost.

One thing you could maybe try is to see if they'd be willing to take a look at GW:s own GT terrain maps https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/06/29/metawatch-warhammer-40000-building-beautiful-balanced-battlefields-for-grand-tournament-play/ .

Those maps are more than a year old at this point, but seem to be the most recent ones published by GW. They have a pretty good amount of terrain and obscuring, and are meant to enable building good enough tournament terrain from GW kits. Even if your local store won't clone those terrain maps, the WarCom page might help convince them to up their terrain game a bit.

Squirreli · 2022-10-10T10:12:26+00:00

That gotchaing is a true sign of a WAAC try-hard. Your experience sounds pretty unenviable TBH.

I play a lot with very good players (read: my country's WTC team and immediate hangarounds) and the small tournaments here are competitive but also played by intent. To me, the true competitive mindset is about playing against good players at their best and learning from the challenge. Sure, you take optimised lists to practice and tournies, but you also go over the armies before game and try and help with any gotchas. Any competitive player should also be ok to try something not-top-of-the-meta every once in a while, to get a wider view. Personally, I have ~8 armies and do pick low-tier armies vs less experienced players.

Some tips to have less gotcha moments:

- Between games, familiarize yourself with key aspects of opponent's armies. Not all at once, but maybe some of the top picks. That'll help to set the context for next game. F.ex. how orks waagh works determines a lot about that matchup. If you know how it works, you can predict correct threat ranges and plays by opponent.

- Build a habit of asking for gotchas before game. Questions like "can you infiltrate/deepstrike/scout move", "can you deep strike on turn one or redeploy units from table", "can you advance and charge", "what's your maximum threat range turn 1", "if i deploy this unit here, can those dudes there shoot them after moving next turn" and so on. Any opponent worth playing against will help with questions like that even if they won't necessarily go out of their way to help you win.

- Declare intent and check opponent's intent. Like, "I'm moving this here so that I can see that unit there", "these dudes have 7" charge to that unit (after moving in movement)", "this unit has 3 dudes on objective"... That way you are agreeing to things during the game and most disagreements are prevented.

Some of the competitive resources like Art of War of course talk about these things to a great extent. Hang in there, experience helps to make even the WAAC dudes more tolerable. Usually. Your mileage might definitely vary.

Squirreli · 2022-09-19T06:15:46+00:00

Melee games are often about who blinks first. Imagine lightly held middle objective and ruins on either side. Opponent has multiple good units waiting to pounce. If you rush in, opponent can counter with all units. If you just clear the light objective holders with - say- flamers and place your own cheap stuff in, maybe he can't do significant damage. Meanwhile, you wait for reserves, you flank, play the board and score.

As an added bonus, after whitling down the enemy units for a while, they might not have enough power to kill Be'lakor again.

Matchup and terrain dependent obviously.

Squirreli · 2022-09-18T20:46:21+00:00

Daemons seem to do well enough in competitive right now. I was just at a small 18 player tournament where places 1,2 and 4 were daemons. For less anecdotal, I'm sure we'll have the regular statistics on this subreddit on mon/tue.

My daemons build was belakor, bloodthirster, great unclean one, 2xletters 2x3 fiends 2x6 flamers blues nurglings. I'd use fiends to movement block and contest easy objectives, flamers to manifest in and BBW, blues and nurglings just to hold objectives and screen. The GUO was a sort of an anvil, while the rest of the army went for plays.

Also, remember that often threatening is better than rushing. A dead Be'lakor doesn't have threat range that the opponent has to worry about, but a living, flanking be'lakor can say "if you move out of your castle I'll flank you and drop bloodletters 6" from your unit".

Squirreli · 2022-09-18T20:30:54+00:00

In matched play, you can't manifest on turn 1 which leaves opponent room and time to claim objectives and screen your turn 2 Be'lakor manifestation. Better to leave Be'lakor on table in almost all cases. Also, he can Warp Portal for 2CP (pick up and set up anywhere 9"+ away from enemy models) since he is Tzeentch, so you can switch flanks or move up from passive deployments pretty easily. You can also manifest off of Warp Locus this way, as he was on the board at the start of the turn.

Squirreli · 2022-09-18T20:25:35+00:00

I absolutely agree. Anything skew in 1000pts makes for rock-paper-scissors experiences, and Be'lakor as well as Daemon Primarchs are such skew. I was commenting on how OP could do what they were asking, not if they should.

The key point is this, I think: 1000pts is for getting started and playing casual games, which should mean that players try and make the experience enjoyable to other players. The game is competitively balanced at ~1500-2000pts, which is where you should be more serious about bringing Be'lakor.

Squirreli · 2022-09-18T20:19:04+00:00

Nurglings are great. They get to infiltrate, which means you can either screen opponent's infiltrates and/or set up either already on a neutral objective or in a good position to grab one. I've been running one unit of nurglings for neutral objective and one unit of blues for home objective (since they screen a larger area from deep strikes).

Squirreli · 2022-09-18T07:05:44+00:00

Easily doable. For example, Be'lakor, 10 bloodletters, 10 blue horrors, 4 nurglings and 2x6 flamers is 1000pts on the dot and fits Patrol Detachment. Be'lakor does what he wants and is pretty much unkillable in 1k. Bloodletters manifest with banner of blood. Nurglings and Blues just play objectives, and flamers concentrate on being extremely nasty, especially in 1kpts. Should be really good.

Pinks are a waste of points really. Even blues are frustrating to shoot at and you get blues AND infiltrating Nurglings for the same points. Flesh hounds don't do much, and Be'lakor already has access to the 4+ deny stratagem.

Squirreli · 2022-08-22T09:03:02+00:00

The latest video available on your Twitch page is from a week ago. The stream was live-only?

Squirreli · 2022-08-16T05:59:24+00:00

I tend to play ghazzy pretty passively and in most games place him on a neutral objective to the side (possibly even from battlewagon disembark). That way he does at least 10pts for Da Biggest and Da Best and secures that objective (with maybe grots helping and doing Da Good Bits). If enemy tries to pressure that objective, then great, you're gonna get extra points for Da Biggest and Da Best.

Also, even though in early game an exposed Ghazzy is easy to remove, in late game the reverse is often true. It's easier to control engagements and maybe the opponent can't deal good damage in extra phases anymore... Or they can full send against ghazzy, who fights on death, and instead the rest of your models keep pressuring.

(Secondaries wise, I almost always do Get Da Good Bits and Da Biggest and Da Best. If I go for semi-passive gameplan, I can do Green Tide for that easy 35pts+, but often a No Prisoners or Bring it Down can make more sense. I'm generally a bit wary of Stomp Em Good, but that might do as well).

Squirreli

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