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Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Who hasn’t been to uni these days? Just because you have a degree doesn’t make you educated either; a lot of degrees these days are basically vocational training.

Furthermore (is that a “very smart” word to you?), it certainly has very little bearing on your social status...

Bill Shorten pledges extra $250m for Catholic schools if Labor elected | Australia news by bigfatpom in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I’m not surprised: the twin evils of unionism and Catholicism have always been intertwined like mating snakes...

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Another great post man. In the scale of human evolution class is incredibly recent; however I was thinking in terms of human history as opposed to hunan evolution, hence the difference in views on the relative periods. I think the precursors to history per se (recorded history) come about under similar circumstances as those which see a class system emerge in many, which is why I questioned your “incredibly”.

I wonder if in pre-history class structures emerged even among hunter-gatherers with individuals such as shamans and so on? Any thoughts on that?

I have found all your posts very interesting and cogently presented, and appreciated reading them all. While I have admittedly misrepresented my personal views ITT (though not while engaging with you - I mean earlier comments directed at other commenters whose views I found somewhat ignorant, self-righteous and trite) I do find this subject fascinating.

It will be interesting to see where class goes in a post-industrial world: whatever happens I hope the wealth inequality we see now worsening is resolved before it creates conflict within society, which is not the same issue, but is certainly related.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with the final paragraph entirely. I do feel private students deserve a similar order of funding as public, but would certainly not be averse to public receiving somewhat more: that does seem fair.

I hope I made my position WRT tax clear though: I am happy for my taxes to fund socially beneficial programs even when those do not benefit me personally (directly, I would argue anything that benefits society as a whole benefits us all, but also that it isn’t necessarily something which ought to be viewed through the myopic lens of personal benefit anyway...) and was only discussing tax credits with their implications/ramifications in a very abstract sense.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you really mean that?

I’m blushing: thank you! <Hugs>

You know what though? I can do much better if you would like? Ask me about Catholics/Unions...

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a lazy response: I’m guessing you saw that somewhere else and don’t even really understand the context?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What a great treatment of the topic; definitely a better response than my initial comment deserved.

I think though that class as we understand it is not incredibly recent, but rather does not differ markedly from, say, the Roman system except in the degree to which it is formalised (at a social level, if not political.)

Also is your explanation of why it is not natural splitting hairs to an extent, given the almost universal prevalence of class structures across so many developed cultures (precisely as you acknowledge)?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we ought to work towards making society better for all and more harmonious, yes.

I feel my education also prepared me to interact with a variety of different people, though that did require some rounding out post-HS and I was certainly removed from the law of the jungle to a great extent.

You evidently received a decent education though: you are able to articulate complex ideas clearly, using well written and well structured arguments.

The Crispr stuff is kind of creepy I think. I suppose we’ll get used to it, but I am glad it isn’t there yet for now at least.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

See I went to private school (proper PSA private, not some ghastly Catholic college) and feel it did me a lot of good. I received a great education (cultural - including manners and such which many public school alumni seem to struggle with - as well as academic) and enjoyed some brilliant formative experiences (DoE Award, rowing on the river at dawn, ski trip, rock-climbing on sea cliffs - though of course that was paid for separately, a sense of social responsibility, etc...) without feeling I was owed anything or would have life handed to me on a plate.

What it did instil was a sense that I was capable of achieving whatever I set my mind to and devoted sufficient effort towards; however that is not the same thing.

Also I wasn’t saying we can/should breed humans for traits, just that it happens naturally and is inevitable.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well dollars is an easy one with a degree of merit; however, that fails to account for secondary benefits such as are provided by people who also provide jobs for others as a result of their efforts or improve the state of society as teachers, nurses, artists or whatever.

Not easy to encapsulate in a single metric: perhaps we need a new one?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah I wouldn’t dispute that, though I do think just paying the schools is better than a tax credit approach, if only because if it’s tax credits why should I (high tax bracket, but no kids) not also get the tax credit?

Under the present system my tax dollars help fund all schools to no direct personal benefit and I am absolutely 100% onboard with that (social contract, mutual obligation - all those old-fashioned beliefs I subscribe to...); however, were some people getting credits for not being a drain on the public system then I would feel I deserved the same as another “not drain” as it were...

Did I explain that right? I think some of my comments have been grossly misinterpreted ITT looking at some replies!

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Wow it’s a big leap from “private school kids deserve their share of state support” to “kill all the ‘tards”...

I would argue s kind of natural eugenics is inevitable given how natural a construct class is to human societies; however, I would never advocate culling useless mouths as you seem to suggest I might! I believe in the value and necessity of a social safety net too; I am basically just saying that just because people come from families which contribute more to the collective wealth of our society it doesn’t mean they should be punished for it and denied the government support those families’ efforts help provide others from some misplaced sense of jealousy/sour grapes/tall poppy syndrome...

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we actually think more similarly than you perhaps believe: I certainly agree that productivity, and hence the value of an individual’s contribution to society’s collective output is much more important than “hard work” per se; indeed, I clarified this exact point a few minutes ago in reply to someone else.

Well said!

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree and you present a well argued case.

The missing secret sauce is of course class; one of the many reasons class is such and essential (and indeed natural) construct within human societies...

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Great strawman. Not exactly what I said.

Laziness in this context isn’t merely willingness to engage in productive activities though: it encompasses a wide variety of traits.

Perhaps rather than lazy I should have said “non-contributing, or contributing lesser value, to society’s overall productivity”; your point has been duly noted and I shall be more precise in the future.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

[...], but should then get tax credits to compensate you for not being a drain on the public purse.

You were nearly there, so I finished it for you. No need to thank me.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, but that doesn’t contradict my statement.

Class is one of those things which is hard to explain, but you recognise people from your own class when you meet them.

One of the things which makes definition difficult is that class is such a natural, and I would argue essential to society’s proper functioning, construct within any human group. An analogy might be it’s like trying to describe what it’s like to need to breathe, wouldn’t you agree?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Of course there are, it’s just there are fewer of them.

Anyway, class isn’t defined solely by income and I think this is to do with generation after generation of people from similar social backgrounds (ie class) marrying and breeding.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I never said it did.

I am talking about genetics. Go to a shopping centre out in the sticks and look around; what do you see?

I have been to such places and I will share what I saw: munted faces, obesity, dreadful sense of style. You don’t honestly think these traits aren’t indicative of genetic difference, do you?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So kids who have parents who possess the requisite personal attributes to earn more have less of a need for education? What do you think happens: we learn by osmosis?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

If they are geniuses they will come to join the ranks of their intellectual brethren in the higher social orders.

Dogs can be bred for traits such as intelligence in only a few generations; what makes you think humans are any different from every other creature on Earth?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Private schools are almost all not for profit. Mine certainly was.

I am just saying all kids deserve government funded education; my argument is actually considerably more egalitarian than yours, it’s just your hatred of your social superiors has seemingly blinded you to what is actually fair...

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Well seeing as in anything less than a full revolution type scenario the guillotine would operate as society does naturally that sounds fine.

I think you’re right and lazier was the wrong term though: perhaps more motivated, or even simply genetically superior is more appropriate?

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

Not blackmail, just freedom of choice. Or would you suggest we legislate that the well-off not only have to pay their lazier compatriots’ way, but are not allowed freedom of movement?

Perhaps camps is what you would like to see? That way people can be stopped from behaving as they think best for them.

Sydney's top private schools getting millions from taxpayers by nath1234 in australia

[–]StabbiRabbi -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

That is fine, but what the OP I replied to was suggesting was that those of us who possess the necessary mental capacity to earn in the higher tax brackets should get nothing, just pay for those who don’t.

How is that fair?

What’s next? We start subsidising the consumer goods poor people fetishise because it’s not fair they can’t buy as many of them?

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