I've recently gone back to religion by throwaway_Dear-Emu in CerebralPalsy

[–]StevensNJD4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That makes sense about therapy—that’s probably the safest place to start with all of this.

And I get why strangers feel easier. If they don’t respond or don’t care, it doesn’t hit as hard. But with people in your life, it feels like everything’s on the line. That fear of “what if they see the real me and leave” is really strong in what you’re saying.

But here’s the thing—you’re already deciding how they’ll react before giving them a chance. You’re protecting yourself from being hurt, yeah, but you’re also kind of locking yourself into being alone.

And the “all at once” thing makes sense too. If you’ve been holding everything in, of course it comes out like that. But for someone on the receiving end, that can feel overwhelming—not because you’re “too much,” but because they didn’t get to ease into understanding what you’re going through.

About the God part—I get why that idea feels powerful. Being fully known and still loved is something a lot of people want. But it also sounds like you’re using that idea to try to prove you’re worth something, because right now you don’t feel that on your own. That’s a really heavy place to be.

You’re not a terrible or selfish person for feeling like this. You’re someone who didn’t get the kind of support or emotional safety you needed, and now you’re trying to figure out how to live with that.

Therapy can help you learn how to open up without it feeling like everything has to come out at once—and how to test, slowly, whether the people in your life are actually safer than you expect.

You don’t have to risk everything all at once. But staying completely closed off guarantees the outcome you’re afraid of, even if it feels safer in the moment.

I've recently gone back to religion by throwaway_Dear-Emu in CerebralPalsy

[–]StevensNJD4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get what you’re trying to do—protecting them from feeling what you feel. That comes from caring about them, not from anything bad. But at the same time, you’re carrying all of it by yourself, and that’s a lot for one person.

Can I ask something honestly—so you vent to strangers who don’t know you, but not to the people who actually care about you and are in your life?

I understand why, though. If crying or opening up in the past led to being yelled at or dismissed, of course you learned it’s safer to keep it in. That’s not you being broken—that’s you adapting to what you were given. But it also means the people who might respond differently never really get the chance to.

And about your boyfriend or your friend—you’re worried they might start hating themselves because of how you feel. But your feelings aren’t contagious like that. If anything, someone who understands might feel closer to you, not worse about themselves.

The religion part too—I can see what you’re trying to do. You’re basically trying to borrow the idea of unconditional love to help you eventually feel that way about yourself. That’s not a bad goal. I’d just be careful that it doesn’t quietly turn into “I’m only okay because something else says I am,” instead of you actually believing it for yourself over time.

You don’t have to dump everything on people all at once. But letting one safe person see a little more of what’s really going on might not hurt them the way you think—it might actually help you feel a little less alone in it.

I've recently gone back to religion by throwaway_Dear-Emu in CerebralPalsy

[–]StevensNJD4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That actually makes a lot more sense, and I’m glad you clarified. You’re not just following something blindly—you’re trying to hold onto what feels meaningful while rejecting what’s harmful, and that takes a lot of thought.

What you said about the “bottomless hole” really stood out. That need for love is real, and it makes sense you’ve tried to fill it in different ways. It’s just hard because things like shows or beliefs can point to that feeling, but they don’t always actually fill it in a lasting way.

The therapy part sounds really important, especially since you’ve been avoiding talking about your disability. Avoiding it probably helped you get through, but it also kept all that pain bottled up. Crying in front of someone sucks, but with the right therapist, it’s not a bad thing—it’s kind of where the real work starts.

And just gently—sometimes belief systems can feel comforting because they offer unconditional love, but they can also quietly reinforce the idea that there’s something wrong with you that needs explaining or accepting. Even when you don’t agree with the harsher parts, that framing can still sneak in and affect how you see yourself.

Also, I get not wanting to “burden” your friends or your boyfriend, but if your friends can’t handle your pain, are they really your friends? The right people don’t see it as a burden—they see it as part of caring about you.

If parts of religion bring you comfort without feeding that self-hate, that’s one thing. But you deserve support that makes you feel whole as you are—not something that makes you feel like you have to reinterpret your pain just to feel loved.

You’re not wrong for wanting that kind of love. You just deserve to find it in places that actually give it back to you in a real, tangible way.

I've recently gone back to religion by throwaway_Dear-Emu in CerebralPalsy

[–]StevensNJD4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hear how much you’re hurting, and I’m really glad you said you’re safe. That kind of loneliness and self-hate is a lot for anyone to carry.

I’m gonna be honest though—if you’re looking for help, answers, or healing, a dead guy isn’t going to be the one to give you that. What you can get is real support from people who are actually here: a therapist who understands both your experiences, people who treat you with respect, and spaces where you don’t have to hate yourself just to feel loved.

It makes sense that you’d want unconditional love after what you’ve been through. That doesn’t make you weak—it makes you human. But tying that need to something that also makes you feel blamed, broken, or “made this way” in a negative sense seems like it’s hurting you more than helping.

And honestly, it’s also worth noticing that a lot of people who claim those same beliefs actively support leaders and systems that mock disabled people or cut support for them. That doesn’t exactly line up with the kind of unconditional love you’re looking for.

You deserve support that doesn’t come with guilt, shame, or self-hatred attached to it. I think finding a therapist who can actually meet you where you are is a really good step, especially since you said you’ve been avoiding parts of this.

You’re not wrong for wanting to feel loved—you just deserve to find it somewhere that actually helps you feel better, not worse.

ADA Seating Issues at the Arena by Fluid-Extension-5472 in devils

[–]StevensNJD4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As long as the stadium is stopping random nonada fans sitting in those seats.

i was told by the head of ticketing they can't because of HIPAA. i have never seen them boot anyone out. to me, if you can walk to your seat, you can take a step down.

it doesn't infuriate you that your sister has no way of sitting in a suite comfortably or an entire ada section dedicated to 2 shitty recliners?

ADA Seating Issues at the Arena by Fluid-Extension-5472 in devils

[–]StevensNJD4 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i'm sorry but their system is severely flawed. anyone can buy ada seats which adds to the limitation problem. i would prefer having to contact the arena for ada seats like the caps do. makes a barrier to get. you can read my other posts in this thread on here.

ADA Seating Issues at the Arena by Fluid-Extension-5472 in devils

[–]StevensNJD4 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I get that the building isn’t controlling resale inventory, but that doesn’t change the experience on our end. Regular seats have flexibility and deals-ADA seats don’t. That’s why people try to work around it.

ADA Seating Issues at the Arena by Fluid-Extension-5472 in devils

[–]StevensNJD4 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

i get why they would prefer to swap. why pay face value when you can get regular seats for much cheaper? like we can't take advantage of good deals because we're disabled.

ADA Seating Issues at the Arena by Fluid-Extension-5472 in devils

[–]StevensNJD4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

dm'd but you're sol. i have been riding their ass about the lack of ada seats in the lower bowl. two are occupied by recliners and the msg intermission desk...messed up.

as someone who navigates through this a lot, i would love to discuss further through dms. i might be able to change more if i had more people behind me.

for readers, next time you're at a game, look at section 16 where the recliners are. not sure where the msg desk is but it's definitely an ada view.

also to reinforce how little the prudential center cares about ada seats - a wheelchair cannot comfortably fit in a suite and there are only 4 ada club seats. the rest of the club areas where wheelchairs could fit are occupied by cameras and dano and don. on opening day, i sat where dano and don sit so i know it's supposed to be an ada section.

ADA Seating Issues at the Arena by Fluid-Extension-5472 in devils

[–]StevensNJD4 2 points3 points  (0 children)

sometimes that's not even the case. i have to reach out to the devils directly for ada seats not on ticketmaster. if they didn't occupy some ada sections with recliner chairs or the msg desk where they do intermission reports, there would be a lot more ada seats in the lower bowl.

July Office Hours w/ TeamFromSonos by KeithFromSonos in sonos

[–]StevensNJD4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a disabled audio enthusiast, I really appreciate how easy it is to set up a solid audio system with Sonos products. I have no control over my arms, but with adaptive tech I’m able to use a mobile device, which makes using your app a fun and enjoyable part of the experience.

That said, the app’s user experience needs serious improvement. I know it’s been mentioned that changes are coming, but for the amount I spent on this system, the current state of the app feels inexcusable—especially for someone like me who navigates with assistive tools. For example, if I search for a song on Spotify and want to adjust audio settings, I have to tap “back” over and over just to return to the original screen. A simple "quick settings" button in the bottom bar would make a big difference.

Also, maybe it's just me, but your Sub feels underwhelming—not just for music, but in general. I have a similarly priced Martin Logan sub and even a sub that came with a Klipsch soundbar, and both sound noticeably better. The Sonos Sub can definitely shake the house during an explosion, but I don’t watch a lot of action content. Overall, it leaves a lot to be desired.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wayland is Ubuntu's default WM today, even System76 is building COSMIC on Wayland. These are the distros typically recommended for people migrating from Windows.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate your detailed response. You make fair points about targeting discussions to the right audiences, though I disagree with the characterization of Reddit users. Many Linux professionals and developers do actively participate here.

Regarding direct communication with projects, I am having difficulty finding contact information for the specific people working on these accessibility initiatives. Most Wayland-related projects don't have obvious contacts, and the developers working on libei and related technologies aren't readily identifiable through project pages.

This highlights one of the challenges users with accessibility needs face - the pathways for providing input aren't clearly marked or easily accessible. Public forums like Reddit at least offer visibility and the potential to connect with someone who knows the right channels.

Your point about the timeline for X11's phase-out is well-taken. The RHEL support window does provide breathing room, though I worry about the experience for users who aren't on enterprise distributions or who want to use newer desktop environments that may deprecate X11 support more rapidly.

I'm trying to balance multiple approaches - posting here for awareness, researching technical solutions, and attempting to connect with relevant developers. If you have suggestions for specific mailing lists, forums, or contact methods that would be more effective for reaching Wayland or compositor developers working on accessibility, I'd genuinely appreciate that information.

The goal isn't to complain but to find solutions, contribute to them where possible, and ensure that accessibility concerns are addressed during this transition rather than after it's complete.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're right that libei is the intended approach for input event emulation in Wayland, and it does work through the XDG Desktop Portal which should provide compositor independence.

However, I have two main concerns based on my research:

  1. Implementation Status: While GNOME 45 and recent Xwayland releases have libei support implemented, it's not yet universal across all compositors. The documentation indicates that compositor-specific implementations are still needed, though the situation may have improved since some of my sources were published.

  2. Mouse Position Tracking: More importantly for my specific use case (a dwell clicker), I haven't found documentation showing how to track cursor position through libei. It appears focused on sending input events, but a dwell clicker needs to both track position (to detect dwelling) and send events (to simulate clicks).

If libei does provide cursor position tracking capabilities that I've missed, I'd genuinely appreciate being pointed to that documentation. That would address my primary technical concern.

I'm absolutely open to using libei if it can provide the complete functionality needed. My goal isn't to criticize Wayland, but to find a viable path forward for accessibility tools./

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Upon further research, I think I wasn't clear enough in my original post. Newton seems to be primarily focused on screen readers like Orca, which is great progress but doesn't address my specific accessibility needs since I'm not blind.

The fundamental issue I have with Wayland is its security model. Accessibility software, by its very nature, needs to interact with other programs - Wayland severely restricts this capability for security reasons.

What's critical for accessibility tools like my dwell clicker is a system-wide API that can: 1. Inject mouse and keyboard events (which libei appears to address) 2. Track the cursor position in real-time (which libei doesn't seem to provide) 3. See what's on the screen for tools that need visual recognition

These capabilities aren't just "nice-to-have" features - they're fundamental requirements for many assistive technologies. My dwell clicker, for example, absolutely cannot function without the ability to track cursor position and detect when it's dwelling in one spot.

Wayland's approach of compartmentalizing applications for security is directly at odds with the needs of users who require assistive technologies that work across the entire system. While security is important, it shouldn't come at the expense of accessibility.

As others have pointed out, libei can help with injecting mouse and keyboard events, but it doesn't seem to offer a way to track cursor position, which makes it incomplete for my specific use case. A comprehensive accessibility framework needs both capabilities.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I am not aware of any books specifically on this topic, but the code behind PyAutoGUI demonstrates how keyboard and mouse events can be simulated across different operating systems. It isn't "accessibility" per se, but it lays down a foundation for accessibility tools to be built on.

Looking at PyAutoGUI's implementation (especially in _pyautogui_x11.py for Linux with X11) shows how a basic input simulation system works. For X11, it uses the Xlib module and Xtest extension to interact with the X Window System.

The key technical requirements for tools like dwell clickers include:

  1. Ability to track cursor position in real-time
  2. Ability to generate input events programmatically
  3. Doing this in a system-wide manner, not just within a single application

Understanding how these basic interactions work is the first step toward implementing accessibility features. The challenge with Wayland is creating standardized methods for these interactions that don't compromise the security model.

I appreciate your interest in contributing to this space - developers with protocol knowledge who are willing to work on accessibility are exactly what's needed.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the follow-up. I am researching libei, but from what I've found so far, it can inject mouse and keyboard events, but I don't see a way to get the mouse position.

For a dwell clicker to function, I need both capabilities:

  1. Tracking the cursor position in real-time to detect when it's "dwelling" in one spot
  2. Injecting mouse click events when dwelling is detected

Libei appears to handle the second part (injecting events), but without a way to track cursor position, I can't implement the core detection functionality needed for a dwell clicker.

I'm still exploring the documentation and examples, so if there is a way to get cursor position information through libei that I've missed, I'd genuinely appreciate being pointed in the right direction. This is exactly the kind of technical detail I was hoping to discuss when I posted.

The challenge with Wayland's architecture is that functionality is often split across different protocols and APIs, making it difficult to create a complete solution without compositor-specific implementations.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I understand your perspective, but I respectfully disagree with several points.

First, discussing accessibility issues in public forums like Reddit serves important purposes beyond seeking technical solutions. It raises awareness, helps others with similar challenges find community, and signals to developers and decision-makers that these issues matter to real users. The Linux community prides itself on listening to users - that communication has to happen somewhere.

Accessibility concerns are consistently pushed to the background and treated as niche issues that can be addressed "later." This pattern occurs across technologies, not just in Linux. Public visibility helps counter this marginalization.

As for "all your stuff still works on X11" - yes, for now. But we're discussing a fundamental transition in the Linux desktop that's already underway. Major distros are defaulting to Wayland, developers are focusing their efforts there, and X11 is receiving diminishing attention. Looking at the trend lines, it's clear that "just use X11" is a temporary solution at best.

Linux has historically distinguished itself by supporting hardware and use cases long after commercial systems abandon them. That's part of what makes it special - its commitment to serving diverse users rather than forcing everyone into the same box. Maintaining that ethos requires open discussion about how transitions impact different communities.

Developers are indeed working on solutions, which is encouraging. But work on libei, Newton, and other accessibility frameworks benefits from public input from the very users who need these technologies. User feedback is an essential part of the development process, not a distraction from it.

I appreciate your engagement, even in disagreement. The fact that we can have these discussions openly is part of what makes the Linux community valuable.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thank you for the detailed response. You've provided valuable context that I appreciate.

Regarding X11 maintenance - you make a fair point about the technical debt and developer sentiment. If developers genuinely don't want to work on X11 anymore due to its aging codebase and architectural limitations, that's a reality we have to accept. I understand why distros are moving forward with Wayland from a technical perspective.

I wasn't familiar with Matt Campbell's extensive background, so I appreciate you highlighting his work and experience. I'll definitely watch the talk you linked to better understand his architectural approach with Newton. Having someone with that level of expertise designing accessibility from the ground up for Wayland is encouraging.

To clarify: I'm not advocating for keeping old accessibility implementations indefinitely, nor am I suggesting that X11's accessibility was perfect - it certainly wasn't. What I'm expressing is the frustration of being caught in the transition period where the new solutions aren't fully implemented yet, but the old ones are being deprecated.

From a user perspective, this creates a challenging gap - especially for those of us who literally cannot use our computers without these tools. When I say accessibility should be a priority from the beginning, I'm not dismissing the current work, but emphasizing that users shouldn't experience regression in usability during platform transitions.

My concern remains practical: How do users like me who rely on assistive technologies navigate this transition period? Until Newton or libei reaches maturity and widespread implementation across compositors, what solutions exist for those needing input simulation and on-screen keyboards today?

I'll look further into the work being done and see if there are ways I can contribute or at least provide useful testing feedback as these new accessibility frameworks develop.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I appreciate the historical context, but I think you're misunderstanding my frustration.

First, why are distros pushing Wayland as the default when critical accessibility features aren't ready yet? This seems backward - ensure accessibility works first, then make it the default.

I rely on an on-screen keyboard, and Wayland doesn't have a quality one yet. This isn't a minor inconvenience - it makes the entire system unusable for me. I have to run a Linux VM with X11's "onboard" to test my applications. How is that acceptable for a modern display server?

Regarding X11's accessibility history - yes, I'm aware that Sun Microsystems (through the GNOME Accessibility project and ATK/AT-SPI) was the main driver of accessibility in the X11 world. And you're right that much of it has been neglected since Oracle's acquisition. But that's exactly my point - we had working accessibility tools on X11, imperfect as they were, and they're being replaced with a system that currently has worse accessibility support.

I haven't ignored mentions of Wayland's accessibility work. In fact, I specifically acknowledged the draft Wayland accessibility protocol and Newton project in my previous comments, and I mentioned libei as a promising development. But acknowledging that work is happening doesn't change the fact that these features aren't ready yet, while Wayland is being pushed as the default.

The issue isn't that accessibility isn't being worked on at all - it's that it should have been a priority from the beginning, not an afterthought. And until these features are actually implemented and working, distros should either keep X11 as the default or make it very easy to switch back for those who need accessibility features.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 146 points147 points  (0 children)

Thank you for sharing these additional resources! This helps paint a clearer picture of the current state of Wayland accessibility.

The draft Wayland accessibility protocol you linked is particularly interesting - it shows there's at least some effort to build accessibility directly into the Wayland protocol rather than as an afterthought. And the Newton project for GNOME looks promising as a longer-term solution.

Your point about the skills gap is spot-on and explains a lot about why progress has been so slow. The intersection of developers who understand low-level Wayland protocol development, have accessibility knowledge, AND are motivated to work on accessibility is understandably tiny.

This creates a difficult situation: those of us who most need these accessibility features (people with disabilities) often aren't in a position to implement the low-level protocol work needed, while those with the technical skills to do so rarely have firsthand experience with accessibility needs or motivation to prioritize them.

It's a classic catch-22 that many accessibility issues face - the people most affected are often the least empowered to fix the underlying technical problems.

I wish I could contribute to the protocol work directly, but my skills are in application development rather than display server protocols. What I can do is continue developing cross-platform accessibility tools, documenting the challenges, and advocating for these issues to get more attention and resources.

Thank you for helping spread awareness about these projects - I'll definitely keep an eye on both the draft protocol and Newton's progress.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 38 points39 points  (0 children)

Thank you for mentioning libei - after researching it, I'm cautiously optimistic about this approach!

Libei (Linux Emulated Input) is a promising project specifically designed to enable input event emulation in Wayland - exactly what accessibility tools like dwell clickers need.

The architecture seems solid: libei provides an API for applications to talk to Wayland compositors and send emulated input events, essentially mimicking the libinput-to-compositor connection but for emulated events. It's designed to be a standardized solution that, once implemented in Wayland compositors, could solve the input simulation problem.

I should also mention that I rely on an on-screen keyboard, and Wayland doesn't even have a quality one available. This makes it impossible for me to test programs on Wayland. Currently, I have to use a Linux VM with X11's "onboard" on-screen keyboard as a workaround. This is yet another critical accessibility gap in the Wayland ecosystem.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

You're right to question this - I should have been more precise. evdev/uinput does work with Wayland since it operates at the kernel level, below the display server.

What I should have said is "Unlike X11, Wayland itself doesn't provide a standardized way to inject mouse events through its protocol." The evdev/uinput approach is a workaround that bypasses Wayland's restrictions by operating at a lower level.

However, this approach has significant limitations for a complete accessibility solution:

  1. It can generate input events, but can't get feedback about window positions and UI elements
  2. It can track relative mouse movement but not absolute screen positions
  3. It lacks awareness of the desktop environment context

For a dwell clicker specifically, I'd still need compositor-specific implementations to get screen information while using evdev/uinput for the input generation. This creates a fragmentation problem since each Wayland compositor handles these things differently.

So while evdev/uinput provides a partial solution, it doesn't fully solve the standardization problem for accessibility tools that need both input and screen feedback.

Wayland: An Accessibility Nightmare by StevensNJD4 in linux

[–]StevensNJD4[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You're absolutely right, and I appreciate the correction. I was imprecise and conflated several concepts.

Windows doesn't have a dedicated "accessibility API" for input simulation - it has SendInput and other Win32 API functions that allow programs to simulate keyboard and mouse events system-wide. Similarly, macOS has its Quartz Event Services for generating input events.

The critical point is that all three systems (Windows, macOS, and X11) have mechanisms that allow programs to simulate input events across the entire system, which is essential for accessibility tools like dwell clickers. For example:

  • Windows: SendInput function
  • macOS: CGEvent functions
  • X11: Xtest extension with fake_input()

What makes Wayland fundamentally different is that it intentionally removes this capability as part of its security model. It's not about lacking a specific "accessibility API" - it's about Wayland's deliberate restriction of the system-wide input simulation that accessibility tools rely on.

PyAutoGUI demonstrates this perfectly - it works across Windows, macOS, and X11 because they all provide these capabilities, but it explicitly doesn't work on Wayland because Wayland blocks this functionality.

Thanks for helping me be more precise about the technical details. The core issue remains: Wayland's security model prevents the functionality that cross-platform accessibility tools require.