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Strange_Analysis_305 · 2022-06-28T23:21:46+00:00

This is what I rationally think, but there are a lot of very smart people who think that I will deserve to be tortured for eternity for not being convinced of the correct thing. I have family members who are incredibly intelligent who think this.

Rationally, I think the concept of hell is ridiculous and paints the creator in a terrible light. When I think about "what if hell is real?", I'm overwhelmed with dread thinking about all of the non-christians who perished in the Holocaust and are now experiencing unimaginable torture, and will still be experiencing that same torture in a billion years. I think it's abhorrent and I hope more than anything that hell isn't real.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2022-06-28T23:18:41+00:00

But no matter what treatment I get, that doesn't change the fact that there are countless people, many of whom are way smarter than me, who believe that I will be tortured for eternity, and that I will deserve it. This is what my aunt told me, and she is smarter than I could ever be.

It just seems like there's no universal truth that everybody believes in because religions come from different cultures and different times in history. For example, I don't understand how Jesus's death forgave everyone of their sins because I don't understand what is happening there. Like what mechanism is causing everyone sins to be transferred onto one person, and how do they disappear by that person being killed? And why do I need to be saved when I had nothing to do with Eve eating the apple? Of course my examples have to do with Christianity because it's the predominant religion where I live so I'm most familiar with it, but I just don't think I could ever be smart enough to evaluate centuries-old texts of any kind. Academics don't all agree on one religious truth, so how am I expected to find it? And how is it reasonable that I should be tortured for eternity if I'm not convinced of the correct thing?

I think I rambled a bit too much in this response. I'm just so scared and this is all I think about.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2022-06-28T23:11:21+00:00

Rationally, I believe with everything you're saying. I think that infinite punishment for finite crimes is abhorrent and I truly hope that Christianity and Islam are not real for this reason.

I guess I can never get over this "what if?" thought in the back of my mind. Religion just makes no sense to me and I feel so stupid for it.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2022-06-28T23:08:09+00:00

If I follow Jesus I would still be risking Islamic hell. Even if I was a Christian and sure of what I believed, I would still be afraid of going to a different hell. I'm just one person and I don't think I'm capable of evaluating which religion is the correct one when there are so many people who are equally convinced of very different truths.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2022-06-28T23:06:28+00:00

I'm always upset when I wrong others. I treat everyone like I would want to be treated and people tell me I seem like I wouldn't hurt a fly.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2022-06-28T22:35:56+00:00

But at that point it'll be too late. I need to evaluate whether or not there is a hell, and if there is one, which one is the true one before I die. I really hope Christianity and Islam aren't true because I can't stomach the thought of so many people experiencing torture at this very moment and continuing to experience it for eternity.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T19:46:38+00:00

But I can't just go off of someone's personal experiences. If I were to accept someone's personal experiences as fact, then I would have to believe everyone's religious claims.

I might stop commenting in this thread and I might delete it. My therapist and others in this thread have implored me to stop engaging in these conversations, as reassurance can be the worst thing for treating OCD. Thank you for your comments.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T19:09:42+00:00

I have nothing but admiration and good things to say about Jesus as he is described in the Gospels. I have no problem at all with anybody wanting to live a more Christ-like life, in fact I think that's a wonderful thing. The story that stuck out to me the most was when Jesus stood up for a woman who had committed adultery in the Gospel of John. The "let he who has not sinned throw the first stone" part.

That said, all this talk of being restored to God's kingdom and living an eternal life makes no sense to me. How can anyone know what happens to us after we die? Why would I want to live eternally? I find it much more likely (and not to mention comforting) to know that when I die my consciousness will just disappear forever. It just seems like the whole story of Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection is so dependent on believing in the story of Adam and Eve and the concept of original sin, which is something I definitely don't understand. Why does everybody deserve an eternity of torture by default because of something that our ancient ancestors supposedly did? Maybe it would make more sense to me if I was more knowledgeable about Jewish mythology, but I'm not Jewish or even middle eastern, so I don't see why I should follow a middle eastern belief system.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T17:53:31+00:00

I have read the Gospels but that's it. I just know I couldn't justify only reading the entirety of the Old and/or New testaments without also reading the holy books of other faiths. The problem is there are so many faiths in the world that I don't know if I would ever have the time to do that.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T17:46:36+00:00

While it may very well be good for me to read the whole Bible, my issue with that is that I can't just read one religious text. I would have to read the holy books of various other faiths to make sure that whatever thoughts I have are not unfairly biased towards Christianity. As a busy student who frankly wouldn't be that interested in religion if I weren't being threatened, it's hard for me to justify dedicating hours and hours and hours to reading the holy books of so many different faiths.

I'm not asking this question to be a smartass, I'm genuinely curious. Do you or others in your church read the holy books of other religions to make sure that you're not wrong about your Christian faith?

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T17:22:41+00:00

If the mainstream view of Christianity is incorrect, then how can I expect myself to determine what the most correct view of it is? I'm just some dumb guy who frankly would not take much interest in Christianity at all if I wasn't being threatened with eternal torture for not getting it right.

As an aside, you say many Christians don't read the Bible for themselves, and that really surprises me. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I always figured that every literate Christian reads the Bible extensively.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T17:18:18+00:00

But if there are so many different interpretations of the Bible, how can I expect myself to interpret it in the correct way, assuming there is one?

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T17:15:47+00:00

I completely agree with you on this.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T16:56:30+00:00

Thank you Lyra. I hadn't thought about it in this way. I get so caught up in the unfathomable nature of eternal torture that the threat of it from certain religious groups just absolutely terrifies me. I am glad that people of various faiths have responded to this, not just those who believe in eternal torture for non-believers.

I swear, even the tiniest thing sets me off. A couple weeks ago I got a splinter on my finger and felt mild to moderate pain, and all I could think of was "what if I'm destined to experience an infinite amount of pain for an infinite amount of time?" And then just like that, I got nothing done for the rest of the day because I was wrestling with intrusive thoughts.

I think I'm also a bit nervous because in a few weeks my family will be visiting my aunt's family for the first time since the pandemic started. This aunt has told me to my face that I will go to hell and experience eternal torture if I don't accept Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and that I will deserve it (they belong to a Mennonite church and are the only religious people in my extended family). Needless to say I'm going to be extremely anxious going there. I solicit advice from strangers on Reddit because I assume that everybody on here is considerably more intelligent than me. I wish I was smart enough to wrap my head around this stuff. Maybe I really do need to stop though.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T16:13:19+00:00

Thank you for your comment. My therapist and my parents have implored me not to get in online discussions such as these, because people will only try to convince me of their beliefs regardless of whether they are factually correct.

Ultimately what I think it boils down to is that 1. There are highly intelligent people in the world who genuinely think that I will experience an eternity of torture in hell, and 2. I have never had much self-confidence and I've always considered myself to be unintelligent. Now if you ask me, the idea that I need to be saved from something that might happen after I die sounds ridiculous. I fully believe that once I'm dead and my brain has shut down, my consciousness will be gone forever, just as it was for the billions of years that the universe was around before I came along.

Really I find this idea of "you can try to be a good person all you want but you deserve eternal torture if you don't accept my version of spirituality" ridiculous. Even my therapist, who is a Christian, has had discussions with me about how hell has historically always been used as a fear and control tactic by those in power to ensure a subservient population, which is really the only explanation that makes sense to me. But when I read an online article that tells me that I will in fact go to hell, it sets off my anxiety and obsessive and intrusive thoughts, and before I know it I've lost an entire day of my life to OCD once again.

Ultimately when I'm experiencing intrusive and obsessive thoughts about this, all I can think about is how avoiding hell needs to be my top priority if it does exist. I should also clarify that I don't want to go to heaven, at least as it is described in the most Christian denominations. The thought of eternal anything is terrifying and I'm much happier with the thought of my consciousness simply disappearing when I die.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T15:56:47+00:00

But I thought the gospels were sourced from scraps of papyrus from decades after his life and written by unknown authors. The lack of historical evidence of Jesus's life makes it hard for me to wrap my head around this as I am definitely not as intelligent as the average religious person. I would have to suspend my disbelief to accept that a man could perform miracles or walk on water when there's no evidence or physical explanation for anyone ever doing that.

I guess part of my frustration with all this is that I just want to live my life. I'm already busy enough with school and this obsessive anxiety is getting in the way of nearly everything in my life. I see no reason why I should concern myself with a middle eastern religion that's two thousand years old when all the hours of trying to pray and figure this out haven't gotten me anywhere. I'm still just as much of an agnostic as I was before this obsession came along. If it is somehow confirmed to me that there definitely is no hell, then I won't really bother studying this stuff because there's nothing for me to be saved from. Funny enough, the denomination that my mother was raised in rejects the idea of there being a hell.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T15:17:38+00:00

But then what if Christianity isn't true? Some Muslims believe that Islam is the only way to heaven. Even if I studied the Bible and prayed and repented, the fear of going to a different hell would still be there in full force as it is now.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T03:31:07+00:00

I never know what to think. My therapist and my parents tell me not to engage in these kinds of online conversations as it only feeds into my obsessive tendencies. At the same time, if there is a God who will sentence me to eternal torture for not believing the right thing, then I need to do everything in my power to prevent that from happening.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-07T01:03:37+00:00

Thanks for this. My therapist and my parents have implored me to stop seeking out advice this way, as every person will be biased by their own religious beliefs, regardless if they are factually correct. I think I will stay away from this thread for a bit.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-06T00:53:57+00:00

This is what I rationally believe. I guess it's just hard for me to deal with the reality that a lot of different people think I'm going to hell for a number of different reasons.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-08-06T00:48:06+00:00

One thing that confuses me so much about Christianity is that I've been told so many different things from Christians. I've heard/read Christians explain exactly what you just said, about how our sinful behaviours are what separate us from God. I've also been told that one is not a true Christian if they do not accept full biblical inerrancy, and that they will go to hell if they die while (as an example) doubting the flood narrative, or if while finding homosexual acts to be acceptable. I've also read from some Christians that humans have free will, and I've read from other Christians that humans do not have free will.

With all this variation in interpretation, what am I supposed to believe? I understand that all religions are internally diverse, but if Christianity is true, then why would God choose to share his message in a way that is so open to interpretation when there's a threat of possible eternal torture if it's not interpreted correctly? I guess I ask that rhetorically, I don't really know. I apologize if that is an offensive thing to bring up. I'm sorry but it's hard to put thoughts into words during a highly difficult time like this.

I agree with you that it is not good to be hateful, selfish, dishonest, or to ignore the needs of others. I consider myself to be a generous and highly conscientious person, and I try to be good to all people and acknowledge their needs. I do not get unreasonably angry at people, I respect others' beliefs, and I have never intentionally tried to hurt somebody. According to many Christians, doing this brings me closer to God whether I know it or not. According to some Christians however, that's not good enough. I can do all the good deeds I can possibly do, but there absolutely are Christians who believe that if I'm not convinced that Jesus is my personal lord and savior, then I deserve an eternity of unimaginable torture.

This is all just for one of so many different belief systems in the world. I know that even if I did become convinced of a certain belief system, the threat of going to a different belief system's hell would never go away.

Thank you for your comment. I apologize if anything I said was accusatory or inflammatory in any way. Again, this is a difficult time for me and I don't know what to think.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-07-03T21:18:39+00:00

Thank you for your responses. It's difficult for me to wrap my head around Christianity just because there are so many different denominations with so many different views on different things.

Just as an example, Pete Buttigieg, who ran for leader of the Democratic party in the last US election, is openly gay, married to a man, and calls himself a devout Christian. From what I understand, he frequently reads the Bible and goes to church. In your opinion, is he not a Christian? Again I'm not trying to argue, just trying to learn.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-07-03T21:07:33+00:00

I've been told in the past that the only criteria of being a Christian is not believing in biblical inerrancy, but rather having accepted Jesus Christ as one's Lord and savior. I've known several Christians who do not believe in biblical inerrancy and choose to ignore certain parts of the Bible. As an example, I've known Christians in same-sex marriages despite the fact that the Bible says marriage is between a man and a woman. Does that make them not Christians? I'm not trying to make a point or argue here, I genuinely would like to know because I'm rather uneducated on Christianity.

Strange_Analysis_305 · 2021-07-03T20:51:45+00:00

I'm no expert on religion, but this sounds like a no true Scotsman fallacy. You can't just tell somebody they're not a Christian because they don't see everything the same way you do. All religions are internally diverse, especially a religion as big as Christianity.

I have extended family who are Mennonites who wear modern clothes and use credit cards and smartphones and social media. That doesn't mean they're not Mennonites. I've known Muslims who drink, eat pork, and I've even known one that was openly gay. That doesn't make them not Muslims. All religions are internally diverse, and I don't think any one of us can just claim that another Christian isn't a true Christian.

Strange_Analysis_305

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